Liberation

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adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:17 pm

Yes check your self..
Use some questions like,

Can i spot a link between sensation feeling and the thought ?
Is there also a dividing line between them ?
How they are experienced ? one by one ?
Or a though story says: "this comes from that..This causes that..
Hi!
There is no actual link between them that I can observe. It’s all thought content that I create! Just like the concept of time, there isn’t any division between the feelings and thoughts and sensations. It’s all one. Bundled together. The thoughts about this creates a story to explain. I see... very interesting!
yes very good looking
interesting right ?
:)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 21, 2019 1:29 pm

i have 1 last question
then i will give you again the final questions to be re considered looked and answered ok dear ?

Do you still believe any of these:
"I AM SUSANNE, I AM / HAVE THIS BODY OR MIND, THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE, THERE IS CONTROL, I HAVE FREE WILL, I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS, THERE IS YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
Posts: 101
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 3:16 am

Do you still believe any of these:
"I AM SUSANNE, I AM / HAVE THIS BODY OR MIND, THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE, THERE IS CONTROL, I HAVE FREE WILL, I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS, THERE IS YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
?
Suzanne is just a word and is the content of a thought.
The body and mind are the same thing: words to name a concept.
There is no one experiencing, deciding, choosing and orchestrating the way experience appears to my senses.
There’s even less free will, since there’s no controller of experience. Time doesn’t exist either. Like money, it’s a measurement concept. Again, direct experience has no beginning and no end.
There are no others... hmmmm. If there’s no one deciding-choosing-controlling, than the idea of others falls apart. So what are we then?
I see that I am aware of experience, all of it. Not all the time aware though.

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:35 am

Do you still believe any of these:
"I AM SUSANNE, I AM / HAVE THIS BODY OR MIND, THERE IS A CENTER EXPERIENCING LIFE, THERE IS CONTROL, I HAVE FREE WILL, I CAN DECIDE - CHOOSE THINGS, THERE IS YESTERDAY, TOMORROW, THERE ARE OTHERS AND I AM SEPARATE THEN THEM"
?

Suzanne is just a word and is the content of a thought.
The body and mind are the same thing: words to name a concept.
There is no one experiencing, deciding, choosing and orchestrating the way experience appears to my senses.
There’s even less free will, since there’s no controller of experience. Time doesn’t exist either. Like money, it’s a measurement concept. Again, direct experience has no beginning and no end.
Very good. Sure. Thank you

There are no others... hmmmm. If there’s no one deciding-choosing-controlling, than the idea of others falls apart. So what are we then?
I see that I am aware of experience, all of it. Not all the time aware though.

For the hmmm part i must direct this question :)

If there is no you what are others ?
What is the actual experience of others ?

I see that I am aware of experience, all of it. Not all the time aware though.

But since you have not spot a self, observer, doer of any kind, that can only mean 1 thing right ?
We can say there is the experience aware of it self right ?
Or do you find an observer ? aware(R)? of any kind ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:12 pm

For the hmmm part i must direct this question :)

If there is no you what are others ?
What is the actual experience of others ?
Hi!
Sorry about the hmmmm part! 🙂

If there’s no me, than there’s no other. That ok.
The experience of other as I see it is : actual experience again and always. Sounds, sight, smell, taste, Touch and thought.

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Suzanne68
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Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:18 pm

But since you have not spot a self, observer, doer of any kind, that can only mean 1 thing right ?
We can say there is the experience aware of it self right ?
Or do you find an observer ? aware(R)? of any kind
Ok, so there’s no controller anywhere, no one, no other, no self, no doer, no me...
there’s only actual experience being aware of itself. I can’t find and observer either.
So awareness is “awaring”

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:11 pm

That will be all Suzanne.
Thank you.

Let's re-look to final questions and please answer them agian with your new perceivement..

See you :)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:12 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:13 am

Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:54 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
I can’t see and locate any self, me or I anywhere nor was there ever.

Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of the separate self is thinking and believing that the “me” truly exists and that it therefore must be protected, defended from and completed by the “others”. The illusion of a separate self starts when the mind is unaware of the actual experience. Or some thought triggers its appearance. When the illusion happens, the self starts to grasp onto the content of thoughts and concepts and gets lost in them, like a waking dream. It is either to defend itself against a wrong or promote and self aggrandize itself. When the mind is under the spell of the illusion, it feels foggy, unclear and sticky. sort of caught in thoughts and disconnected from actual experience.

How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It feels liberating to experiment something so simple. And It also feels mindboggling, almost too much to take in at the same time. Before, I would have an intellectual understanding, but that was just more thought more story. I would read this in books and remain unable to get it. It is a process. Now, I sense the actual experience and its reality.
What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The seeing that thoughts, hearing, seeing and so on, happens on their own. That there is no one orchestrating anything. Observing that made me see the impossibility of a controller deciding everything.

Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
decision, intention, free will, choice and control just happen. I can’t know what makes things happen or how they work. They just do. Awareness observes, life flows. Since there is no controller, there is no one responsible either. All happens it self. For example, I get a headache, I feel pain around my eyes. There is no one responsible for it, it just happened. The thought I don’t’ like headaches, popped into my mind and I link it to the sensation of pain, but it’s content of a thought, not experience. Again there is no I responsible for the thought. Another example is when I feel anger after someone says something that I don’t like. The thought arises on its own and the sensation in the body as well. I connect the two with thoughts. Experience is just that I heard sounds, thoughts popped into the mind and the chest contracts.
Anything to add? not at the moment.

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adilerten
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Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Fri Jan 25, 2019 1:40 pm

Thank you for the answers Suzanne,
My guide friends will lead me if there is more questions.

Sending love
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
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Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:13 am

Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 2:12 pm

Thank you,
Suzanne

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adilerten
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Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:05 am

Hello Suzanne,

My dear can you also answer these please :)
Thank you

Q2 you wrote:- When the illusion happens, the self starts to grasp onto the content of thoughts and concepts and gets lost in them, like a waking dream.

Where exactly is this illusory “I” exactly that “starts to grasp onto the content of thought and concepts and gets lost in them?

Q5 you wrote :- Awareness observes

Where exactly can this “awareness” be found that is observing?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:06 am

Hello Suzanne,

My dear can you also answer these please :)
Thank you

Q2 you wrote:- When the illusion happens, the self starts to grasp onto the content of thoughts and concepts and gets lost in them, like a waking dream.

Where exactly is this illusory “I” exactly that “starts to grasp onto the content of thought and concepts and gets lost in them?

Q5 you wrote :- Awareness observes

Where exactly can this “awareness” be found that is observing?
ok kay i did ;)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1270
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Liberation

Postby adilerten » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:57 pm

Hello Suzanne,

My dear can you also answer these please :)
Thank you

Q2 you wrote:- When the illusion happens, the self starts to grasp onto the content of thoughts and concepts and gets lost in them, like a waking dream.

Where exactly is this illusory “I” exactly that “starts to grasp onto the content of thought and concepts and gets lost in them?

Q5 you wrote :- Awareness observes

Where exactly can this “awareness” be found that is observing?
ok kay i did ;)
Please Ignore this message Suzanne.
Thank you
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

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Suzanne68
Posts: 101
Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:13 am

Re: Liberation

Postby Suzanne68 » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:08 pm

Got it!
I will just answer the questions.


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