Good to be here now

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MichaelD
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby MichaelD » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:02 pm

Hi Noel,

Thank you. So far your answers seem effortless and that you have possibly already passed through the Gate.

I suggest we carry on with the thought questions and depending on how they go I will then ask you the final questions and we can then see where we go from there.

Don't agonize, or think, simply look and answer from the gut.

Where do thoughts come from?

Where are they going?

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?

Can you choose what to think?

Can you choose what not to think?

Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?

Are thoughts belonging to a self or just occurring?

I think you will enjoy this,

Michael

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Noel
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby Noel » Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:18 am

Thank you, Michael, it is possible that I have passed through the gate. No fireworks, no trumpets blaring, I get that. But elements of seeking remain? This is where things get hung up a bit.
Where do thoughts come from?
Thoughts arise, not from any particular place, they just happen.

Where are they going?
With nothing to grab them, they dissolve as they appear, never having had a destination.
^ I really like this question, by the way!

Can ‘you’ stop a thought in the middle?
No. "I" have no control over their content or length.

Can you choose what to think?
No, I have no such control over what to think. In many attempts, this is always the case. VERY freeing!

Can you choose what not to think?
Also no, as is indicated by the various Christmas songs looping "in my head" lately.

Can 'you' choose not to have painful or negative thoughts?
No choice about the content, they happen. The "think positive!" mantra, along with the ill feelings associated with "you're someone who thinks positively, why did you just think a negative thought?" self-scolding used to be a regular occurrence.

Are thoughts belonging to a self or just occurring?
Thoughts do not belong to a self. They arise and dissolve on their own, their content and length are not controlled by "me", they just happen.



Things are different than they were "before." They have changed ("improved" isn't quite the correct word, but more relaxation overall, more understanding and patience in the unfolding). I may be through the gate, there is still uncertainty.

Through this process, I have felt like the very good student who "knows the material" but doesn't fully grasp the concepts, except in a few instances here and there. For one, the understanding that existed in the near-sleep state I had two weeks ago provided the ultimate clarity. Not sure if that created an unrealistic expectation of something else to come or not. "I" feel very close, yet there is no longing or feeling of anticipation for anything more. Interesting.

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MichaelD
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby MichaelD » Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:29 pm

Hi Noel,

Your thought answers were great - well done.
Things are different than they were "before." They have changed ("improved" isn't quite the correct word, but more relaxation overall, more understanding and patience in the unfolding). I may be through the gate, there is still uncertainty.
Through this process, I have felt like the very good student who "knows the material" but doesn't fully grasp the concepts, except in a few instances here and there. For one, the understanding that existed in the near-sleep state I had two weeks ago provided the ultimate clarity. Not sure if that created an unrealistic expectation of something else to come or not. "I" feel very close, yet there is no longing or feeling of anticipation for anything more. Interesting.
It is interesting. I suggest we carry on with the thought questions because the remaining ones are about "I" thoughts and then come back to this or final questions depending on how the thought questions go.

So here they are:

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?

Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?

Could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?

Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?


Do relax and take your time

You will enjoy these I’m sure!

Michael

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Noel
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby Noel » Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:38 am

Can an 'I' be found that generates thoughts?
No, thoughts arise on their own, into awareness, then they fall away.

Does the thinker of the thought appear in experience? Can it be found?
No, not at all. There is no thinker, no “me” or “I” as the creator of thoughts.

Could it be that the 'I' that thinks is also just a thought?
Yes, “I” is likely just a thought. It is understood, intellectually, to be true. Finding it in experience gets a little cloudy sometimes. The cloudiness goes away when an attempt to find “I”, to find Noel. Noel is a thought, he’s not real, just stories, a character.

Is there an 'I' that controls thoughts?
No. There is no controller, no creator, no originator.

Is it possible to prevent the thought "I" from appearing?
Interesting question that wrapped this up nicely (it clicked!) It is not possible to prevent any thoughts, also not possible to prevent or control the arising of “I” or “me” in thoughts. It makes more sense then that “I” is just a thought that arises on its own, from nowhere to nowhere.


Thank you, Michael, this all makes sense. Saying “there is no I, there is no Me” is much different than experiencing these truths. The realization that “I” is only a thought, like the others, that it comes and goes, is somehow fantastic! So much build up as to the importance, the stories about this “i”, only to have it fall away, literally, crumble, is very freeing. Thank you for your help, ready for the final questions when you are. Big hugs to you!

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MichaelD
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby MichaelD » Sat Dec 22, 2018 8:53 pm

Hi Noel,

Sorry for the delay. Busy finishing work and buying presents!

Great to read your post!
Interesting question that wrapped this up nicely (it clicked!) It is not possible to prevent any thoughts, also not possible to prevent or control the arising of “I” or “me” in thoughts. It makes more sense then that “I” is just a thought that arises on its own, from nowhere to nowhere.
"It clicked" sounds very good indeed!
Thank you, Michael, this all makes sense. Saying “there is no I, there is no Me” is much different than experiencing these truths. The realization that “I” is only a thought, like the others, that it comes and goes, is somehow fantastic! So much build up as to the importance, the stories about this “i”, only to have it fall away, literally, crumble, is very freeing. Thank you for your help, ready for the final questions when you are. Big hugs to you!
My goodness. Well done (no)you!!

The word could well be - Bingo!!

Would you say now that there is no separate self to be found?

If so, how do you feel now?

Please describe how your experience has changed

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MichaelD
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby MichaelD » Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:05 pm

Hi Noel,

How are you, what's happenning? You seem to have disappeared!

Hope you are alright.

Warm regards,

Michael

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Noel
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby Noel » Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:26 am

Hi Michael!

I hope all is well. Travel and holidays with the family have been wonderful, much time away from work to reflect and enjoy.
Would you say now that there is no separate self to be found?
Absolutely, there never was.

If so, how do you feel now?
Lighter, freer. The phrase “relax, nothing is in control.” makes perfect sense now.

Please describe how your experience has changed.
“I” once believed that “taking in” the present moment was a peaceful break from reality. Something to be experienced as a separate thing from reality itself. Now it is abundantly clear: the present moment is all there ever is. It’s not a break from reality, it’s reality itself.

There is a calmness. A clarity. An understanding. Thoughts still arise, it is fine that they do. They dissolve as well. No attachments to them. Joy arises, no attachments. Love arises. Same thing. Love. LOVE!

So wonderful to “find” a new tool, only to discover it has been there all along.


Thank you so much for your assistance, much gratitude for you and this website.

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MichaelD
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby MichaelD » Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:27 pm

Hi Noel,

Seems like it has been a very good Xmas!!
Would you say now that there is no separate self to be found?

Absolutely, there never was.

If so, how do you feel now?

Lighter, freer. The phrase “relax, nothing is in control.” makes perfect sense now.

Please describe how your experience has changed.

“I” once believed that “taking in” the present moment was a peaceful break from reality. Something to be experienced as a separate thing from reality itself. Now it is abundantly clear: the present moment is all there ever is. It’s not a break from reality, it’s reality itself.

There is a calmness. A clarity. An understanding. Thoughts still arise, it is fine that they do. They dissolve as well. No attachments to them. Joy arises, no attachments. Love arises. Same thing. Love. LOVE!

So wonderful to “find” a new tool, only to discover it has been there all along.


Thank you so much for your assistance, much gratitude for you and this website.

LU has a set of questions that help to give a summing up of what you have seen and might help clear up any remaining confusion.

Would you have a go at answering them?

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

If you answer please take your time and answer as fully as possible, that really helps. You can answer them any way that suits you, one at a time, in pairs, or all at once, whatever is best for you.

Enjoy the process,

Michael.

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Noel
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby Noel » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:09 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, there isn’t. Never was, never will be. Truly a cosmic joke!


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
From as early as can be remembered, we are told about being an individual, with things belonging to “i” or “me” as objects. Our relationship to the world is introduced as an individual, as a special “other” person.

It is probably the biggest lie ever told, so convincing that most of the world remains stuck in this idea. It is only an idea, the separate self is a farce. “Everyone is special” is a common phrase. Through inquiry, truly looking, there is no “i” or “me” to be found. Personhood is an idea, a thought arising, but for all these years there has been attachment to it. So much attachment and suffering based on something that doesn’t exist.


3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
It may be frustrating if it wasn’t so freeing. “Frustrating” can’t be used, because there is no person to be frustrated. There is clarity, joy arises. Situations happen, it’s not as if all stress or responsibility is gone, but instead of worry and concern, there is acceptance for what is.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The true realization that “I” is only a thought that arises, like other thoughts, is what did it. So much energy and resources over the years “invested” in this story of “i” and “me.” At first, it doesn’t seem to make sense, but then it’s not a matter of making sense, it becomes a realization of the truth.


5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
There is no free will, no control of decisions. They are all thoughts, all thoughts arise. The “mind” takes credit for them afterwards, but there is no control over thought content, decisions, etc, they just happen.

There is no personal responsibility because there is no person to be responsible. Not an easy truth to realize at first, but ultimately it is the most freeing understanding there is. If there is no control over thought, what is there control over? Nothing! Nothing is in control. This can be discovered by walking into a sweets shop and looking for the “one” making decisions on what to get. The thought arises “I like toffee,” but there is no I, there is no “liker” of toffee, there is no thinker who chose it, the thought just happened.

6) Anything to add?
Yesterday I was at a theme park with my family. Mostly fun, but crowds can create stress and judgement. A wave of compassion and understanding came, a realization of the truth that all present were expressions of consciousness. Like an energetic symphony of beingness. It was beautiful.

There is more smiling, more patience, more understanding, more love. What a wonderful way to experience everything. So much gratitude for “you,” this website, thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

Noel

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MichaelD
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby MichaelD » Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:00 pm

Hi Noel,

Sound great so I won't copy it all again here.

If you have no more concerns or questions, nothing left, then what happens now is that I show our conversation to Ilona or another senior guide. They will then see if there is any area they wish me to explore with you more fully. If not, or when that process is concluded, you will be invited to a couple of closed Fb groups (Unleashed and Aftercare 17) where you can meet other folk who have seen no-self and explore your experience together.

I will post our dialogue now but it could be a few days before admins or myself contact you.

Please keep and eye on this thread and your email for further questions or invites.

You have really been so lovely and easy to work with - so a big thank you for that.

With love,

Michael

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Noel
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby Noel » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:45 am

Ok, sounds perfect, thank you!

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MichaelD
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Re: Good to be here now

Postby MichaelD » Thu Jan 03, 2019 1:01 pm

Hi Noel,

Bingo!!

I am happy to say that you have been confirmed.

Please keep an eye out for an email notification of a PM (private message) from the forum inviting him to join LU aftercare groups on Facebook.

I am happy for you to friend me on Fb if you wish. My name is kevin Michael Donovan.

What a great way to start the new year!

All best wishes,

Kevin


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