Please guide me

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
mockroot
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:58 pm

Please guide me

Postby mockroot » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:00 pm

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Honestly, I've read so much about this, that it's hard for me to speak from my own understanding, but I'll try. I've lived my life with an understanding that I am a person interacting with the outside world, including other people. But the truth is that 'I' is nothing but a thought, and sort of a convention for telling stories about reality.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for guidance, leading to the realization of the truth of no-self. I've heard a lot said about it, read some books, watched videos, and acquired a sort of conceptual, intellectual understanding of it. Now I want to experience it myself, and see through the illusion.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect it to be a process of looking from my side, and being told where to look from the guide's. I am ready to do the work. And as a result of the process, I expect to realize the truth, and begin the process of going deeper, aligning the realization with my daily life.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been meditating on and off for about half a year now, and done a bit of self-inquiry.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:21 pm

Hello Mockroot!
My name is Adil and i am ready to guide you if it's ok for you.
Tell me when you are ready!
;)
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
mockroot
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:58 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby mockroot » Thu Nov 29, 2018 4:55 pm

Hello Adil!

I am ready and excited!

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:02 am

That's excitement is good :)
How would you like me to call you. Is it Mockroot ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:04 am

So Mockroot, before we start, i would like to share some tips to make our
dialogue smooth and effective:

1. Please write as much as you can; I would advise you to
write at least once a day, in order to keep it fresh and buid a momentum.

2. Our main focus here is on seeing through the illusion of
what we call "I," "me," or "self." Please set aside all the teachings
you've learned from books, retreats, youtube, and so on, for the sake
of not bringing bias to what we'll do during our conversation.

3. Process will be mostly answering my questions, its best efficiant if you may answer them one
by one..Please be always 100% honest with your answers
Don't choose the "right." answer, from "what comes up" There's no one here to judge or critisise.
If you are stuck with any issue, we can always take a close look at it.

4-set aside all other spiritually related materials (books, videos etc.) so that you can completely focus on your own direct experience.

5-Here's a link that shows how to use the quote function: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ[/

6- I would suggest you read "What Liberation Unleashed is not" from this link http://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

All ok?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:15 am

Let's start from expectations,
Can you tell me more about your expectations ?
How do you think will life change?
What do you think will be different?
What is missing ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
mockroot
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:58 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby mockroot » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:45 pm

Sorry I haven't introduced myself, my name is Vlad :)

Can you tell me more about your expectations ?
I have recently realized that I've done a lot of things to escape reality - be it video games, listening to, playing and writing music, reading, drinking. And none of these things have really brought any lasting relief, in a sense. The desire to run away was sometimes very intense. And then I have stumbled upon meditation, buddhism and spirituality. And I think that liberation/awakening/realizing the truth will begin my journey towards the opposite - deepening my connection to reality, to the present moment, whatever it may be. This is what, I think, I seek and expect the most.

How do you think will life change?
What do you think will be different?
I think that after realizing the truth, my thinking and actions will become more selfless and caring towards other people and nature. After realization I expect to do more work towards getting rid of selfish habits. So, overall, I see it as a radical internal shift in attitude, leading to more tangible internal changes, and ultimately leading to external consequences.

What is missing ?
A deep connection to reality and the present moment, and answers to the questions, such as: "Is it really true that I don't exist?", "Is all truly one?", "Is it really possible to see through the illusion?"

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:49 pm

Sorry I haven't introduced myself, my name is Vlad :)

Can you tell me more about your expectations ?
I have recently realized that I've done a lot of things to escape reality - be it video games, listening to, playing and writing music, reading, drinking. And none of these things have really brought any lasting relief, in a sense. The desire to run away was sometimes very intense. And then I have stumbled upon meditation, buddhism and spirituality. And I think that liberation/awakening/realizing the truth will begin my journey towards the opposite - deepening my connection to reality, to the present moment, whatever it may be. This is what, I think, I seek and expect the most.

How do you think will life change?
What do you think will be different?
I think that after realizing the truth, my thinking and actions will become more selfless and caring towards other people and nature. After realization I expect to do more work towards getting rid of selfish habits. So, overall, I see it as a radical internal shift in attitude, leading to more tangible internal changes, and ultimately leading to external consequences.

What is missing ?
A deep connection to reality and the present moment, and answers to the questions, such as: "Is it really true that I don't exist?", "Is all truly one?", "Is it really possible to see through the illusion?"
Yes.
Thank you for sharing your expectations.
There has never been a separate self, so life goes on as life always has been. Only thought that says life needs to improve and that there are good and bad things in life. Ultimately there is not.
There is nothing-no one controlling how life unfolds.
Life unfolds spontaneously NOW.

Realizing 'no self' happens, but there will also be lots work to do more..
Checking, and doubting, and rechecking, and that is all ok.
Realizing no self is just a beginning and not an end.
There will still be beliefs and patterns that are rooted in the idea of being a separate self that will need clearing.
So i suggest drop all your expectations what will/won't happen and focus on daily looking.
Let's start..
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:53 pm

Can you tell me what comes when i say,

There is you! You don't exist!
There is no you in any shape or form! Never existed and never will be!

Please tell me in detail what ever comes when you read this.

Waiting for your reply.
Sending much love.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
mockroot
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:58 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby mockroot » Fri Nov 30, 2018 4:18 pm

Can you tell me what comes when i say,

There is you! You don't exist!
There is no you in any shape or form! Never existed and never will be!

Please tell me in detail what ever comes when you read this.

Confusion, mixed with denial and fear. Questions come up: "If that's true, how come I have lived all my life with a belief that I exist? Why do people have this belief?" "Why am I seeing, smelling and hearing things? Is that not contradictory to the fact that I don't exist?" "What will be left of me if I realized this?"

Much love,
Vlad

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:04 pm

Can you tell me what comes when i say,

There is you! You don't exist!
There is no you in any shape or form! Never existed and never will be!

Please tell me in detail what ever comes when you read this.

Confusion, mixed with denial and fear. Questions come up: "If that's true, how come I have lived all my life with a belief that I exist? Why do people have this belief?" "Why am I seeing, smelling and hearing things? Is that not contradictory to the fact that I don't exist?" "What will be left of me if I realized this?"

Much love,
Vlad
Ok Vlad,
When you say " how come I have lived all my life with a belief that I exist?"
what is this "i" in the sentence ?
Can you tell what it is and where exactly is it's location ?
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
mockroot
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:58 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby mockroot » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:44 pm

When you say " how come I have lived all my life with a belief that I exist?"
what is this "i" in the sentence ?
Can you tell what it is and where exactly is it's location ?

At first a thought came up: "It is that which experiences life". But if I try to be more specific, it doesn't work. What is experiencing life? Is it my body? No, because I experience the body. Is it the mind? Also no, because I can experience my mind's thoughts and emotions. So, it is the observer of my body and my mind.

Where is the observer located? I get an initial feeling that it's somewhere in my head, behind the eyes. But this is just a feeling! And someone should experience the feeling. That's strange.

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Sat Dec 01, 2018 3:05 pm

When you say " how come I have lived all my life with a belief that I exist?"
what is this "i" in the sentence ?
Can you tell what it is and where exactly is it's location ?

At first a thought came up: "It is that which experiences life". But if I try to be more specific, it doesn't work. What is experiencing life? Is it my body? No, because I experience the body. Is it the mind? Also no, because I can experience my mind's thoughts and emotions. So, it is the observer of my body and my mind.

Where is the observer located? I get an initial feeling that it's somewhere in my head, behind the eyes. But this is just a feeling! And someone should experience the feeling. That's strange.
Thank you for the answers Vlad,
Let's see,
But this is just a feeling! And someone should experience the feeling.

Is there a gap between a feeler, felt and the feeling
Focus on feeling, what do you feel right now?
What is that sensation without a label / without a thought ?
Now look behind, is there really a feeler of sensation?
Is there I that feels it?
While feeling, see if you can find the feeler?

I get an initial feeling that it's somewhere in my head, behind the eyes.
now please focus on that feeling behind the eyes
Ok then take a good look at this feeling!
Does this 'feeling' suggest or knows in anyway that it is a Vlad / A Me / A Self ?


Waiting for your answers,
Sending much love.
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha

User avatar
mockroot
Posts: 18
Joined: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:58 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby mockroot » Sun Dec 02, 2018 1:08 pm

Is there a gap between a feeler, felt and the feeling
Focus on feeling, what do you feel right now?
What is that sensation without a label / without a thought ?
Now look behind, is there really a feeler of sensation?
Is there I that feels it?
While feeling, see if you can find the feeler?

Right now I feel sensation in my nostrils while breathing. If I really experience it, without thinking about it, it just is. While feeling it, there is just this feeling and no thoughts, concepts, or voice in the head, or feeling of the feeler/sense of me. Only after feeling the breathing, thoughts come up, like: "I breathe", "I feel the breathing"; but this is just what the thoughts tell me. In the moment of feeling, there is no feeler! It's like, in the moment of feeling, there is only this feeling, and noting else.

now please focus on that feeling behind the eyes
Ok then take a good look at this feeling!
Does this 'feeling' suggest or knows in anyway that it is a Vlad / A Me / A Self ?

That's a hard one :)

From what I've investigated, it's noting but a feeling of location in space, and it comes up when I try to locate myself. Even if there is an entity at that location, I cannot perceive it - only this feeling of location.

It very similar to having a feeling of a position of an object with eyes closed - I get a sense that, for example, the table is "there", and I'm pretty sure that it's there because I've seen it before closing my eyes, but if I can't see it right now, I have no justification to say that it really exists. The only difference is that I've seen the table, whereas I haven't really seen the self as an entity!

Waiting for your reply,
Vlad

User avatar
adilerten
Posts: 1399
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2016 5:33 pm

Re: Please guide me

Postby adilerten » Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:30 pm

Thank you for your focused looking Vlad :)
Let's look:

Is there a gap between a feeler, felt and the feeling
Focus on feeling, what do you feel right now?
What is that sensation without a label / without a thought ?
Now look behind, is there really a feeler of sensation?
Is there I that feels it?
While feeling, see if you can find the feeler?



Right now I feel sensation in my nostrils while breathing. If I really experience it, without thinking about it, it just is. While feeling it, there is just this feeling and no thoughts, concepts, or voice in the head, or feeling of the feeler/sense of me. Only after feeling the breathing, thoughts come up, like: "I breathe", "I feel the breathing"; but this is just what the thoughts tell me. In the moment of feeling, there is no feeler! It's like, in the moment of feeling, there is only this feeling, and noting else.
Very good looking Vlad,
yes thoughts are labelling whatever experience is noticed. Just never-ending labelling.
Notice that “I” is not anything else but just a passing thought. Just a word.
There is no breather. There is no thinker. There is no watcher. There is no observer, but these are all experiences happening in one moment.

now please focus on that feeling behind the eyes
Ok then take a good look at this feeling!
Does this 'feeling' suggest or knows in anyway that it is a Vlad / A Me / A Self ?

That's a hard one :)

From what I've investigated, it's noting but a feeling of location in space, and it comes up when I try to locate myself. Even if there is an entity at that location, I cannot perceive it - only this feeling of location.

It very similar to having a feeling of a position of an object with eyes closed - I get a sense that, for example, the table is "there", and I'm pretty sure that it's there because I've seen it before closing my eyes, but if I can't see it right now, I have no justification to say that it really exists. The only difference is that I've seen the table, whereas I haven't really seen the self as an entity!

Waiting for your reply,
Vlad
Yes you haven't seen.
And statements like "seems like, feels like, sense that" points to uncertainty.
We are looking for something really exists..
So if i say please see, touch, smell, hear, or taste this "self", can you experience this self ?
or it can only be thought ?

But is the content of thought real ?
Let's look for this on our next post.

Thank you
Events happen, deeds are done, but there is no individual doer thereof."
Buddha


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest