Love

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Wed Nov 28, 2018 11:33 am

How is „this“ in direct experience? Can you see-hear-feel-smell-taste „this“?
No
Is this more than a story? Or an expectation?
No it's beyond story and expectation
This is not DIRECT EXPERIENCE! That are only thoughts..states..stories..expectations .. Can you see this?
yes I see this
Are this more than thoughts? If you never has experienced „this“, and if there is only experience, what are you talking about?
Aaaaaaaah I see it. I see that the experience is it, whatever the experience is.
Are you sure? If you have never heard about it would there be any idea how this could be?
No
If the next time the feeling of longing shows up, then sit with it, allow it, feel it and then look behind the longing. What is there? Can you find something there?
No nothing there
Can you find arrogance in direct experience? Or is it just only a thought?
just a thought
Why does „seeing“ have to have any properties? Why must „this“ have to have any properties? Does „this“ or „seeing“ or „experience“ have to have any preferences? Look closely if „this“ could be the same as experience!
Seeing does't have to have any properties. It doesn't have to have any properties. Suddenly I saw that it's the same and whatever experience it is, it's always it :-)
It sounds a little bit as if there is an attachement and an expectation for everlasting peace and rest.. Thats not possible! There is no happyeveraftergate! No angel choirs and no bells...
:-) Yes of course!
If you are looking for comfort and comfortable feelings, than i have to dissapoint you... sorry ;)
I'm not looking for comfort
than I would choose another forum ;-)

The clear recognition that the "I" is only an illusion is only the beginning, not the end from a never ending unfolding...
That's exactly where the confusion was.
Sit for a couple of minutes with your eyes closed and notice what the mind does. Don’t pay much attention to content, but observe how the labeling mechanism works. A sound is heard and thoughts describe what happened. A tingling sensation comes and thoughts label it. Just pay attention to how something is experienced and then labeled immediately afterward. See how everything runs on automatic.
yes I see that
Look in a mirror.
First close your eyes and feel the sensations called the "face".
Then open your eyes and look in the mirror while still paying attention to the sensations. Is there a connection between the perceived sensations and the image in the mirror? Or just thoughts (and / or mental images) that suggest that?
No there isn't a connection between the perceived sensations and the image in the mirror.
That has become a bit much now. If it is too much at once, then please split it up :))
It's ok Barb. Thank you, thank you, thank you <3

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Barb
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Re: Love

Postby Barb » Wed Nov 28, 2018 12:45 pm

Aaaaaaaah I see it. I see that the experience is it, whatever the experience is.
Suddenly I saw that it's the same and whatever experience it is, it's always it :-)
YES YES YES!! :))
Seems like something has cleared up :)
I'm not looking for comfort 
than I would choose another forum ;-)
LOL :))


Let's have a look if thougth has anything to do with reality:

Sit at home with eyes closed. In your mind, imagine going to the kitchen and getting a piece of fruit (be sure to choose something you already have in stock, as we will need if after).

Try to fully imagine actually going there, picking it up, the look of it, the colour, texture, smell, reflections of light. Then imagine biting into the fruit, tasting it, the texture, sweetness, sharpness, all the qualities. Imagine every aspect, make it as real as possible, and write the descriptions down..

Now open your eyes, and actually go to the kitchen. Take the piece of fruit out for real, and look at it, examine the colour, texture, smell, reflections of light. Now actually bite into the fruit and taste it, experience the texture, the sweetness, sharpness, etc.

Now look at your written words and imagine how you would describe the current experience.

Now ask yourself:

Do the descriptions have anything in common with the reality of actual experience?
Can a word, such as sweet or juicy, know anything about the reality of actual experience?
Can a thought ever know anything about experience in general?

Has a thought/word/imagination anything to do with direct experience? Can a thought anything know about truth/reality?


<3
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:07 pm

Do the descriptions have anything in common with the reality of actual experience?
No

Can a word, such as sweet or juicy, know anything about the reality of actual experience?
No not at all

Can a thought ever know anything about experience in general?
No
Has a thought/word/imagination anything to do with direct experience? Can a thought anything know about truth/reality?
No and No!

Thank you for the experience.
<3

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Barb
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Re: Love

Postby Barb » Thu Nov 29, 2018 3:37 pm

Great :)

Watch the breath. Is there a breather, or only breathing happening?
Watch the process of walking. Does there have to be someone who makes the steps, or does it just happen on its own? What is with digestion? Some doer or only happening?
Is there someone who makes „seeing“? With eyes open can you stop seeing? Or does seeing simply happen?
What about thinking?
What about stressfull situations or concerns? Somebody here? Or only happening?
Watch carefully every appearance... Then LOOK... is there a watcher? Is there anything anywhere something ore someone except self-aware experience?

_()_
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Sat Dec 01, 2018 11:44 am

I'm gonna take a few days for the watching

till wednesday

XXX

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Barb
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Re: Love

Postby Barb » Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:03 pm

Thanks for the message :)
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Tue Dec 04, 2018 5:31 pm

Watch the breath. Is there a breather, or only breathing happening?
There's only breathing happening
Watch the process of walking. Does there have to be someone who makes the steps, or does it just happen on its own?
This is tricky and I took much time for it. I walk daily (with my dogs) and I really enjoy It. It still feels like someone is making the steps though.
What is with digestion? Some doer or only happening?
It's only happening
Is there someone who makes „seeing“? With eyes open can you stop seeing? Or does seeing simply happen?
I can't stop seeing. seeing simply happens
What about thinking?
It just happens
What about stressfull situations or concerns? Somebody here? Or only happening?
Nobody here, only just happening. It becomes very clear
Watch carefully every appearance... Then LOOK... is there a watcher? Is there anything anywhere something ore someone except self-aware experience?
There is no watcher. There is only self aware experience!

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Barb
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Re: Love

Postby Barb » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:58 am

This is tricky and I took much time for it. I walk daily (with my dogs) and I really enjoy It. It still feels like someone is making the steps though.
How does this „someone“ feel like? Where does this „someone“ live? And does this entity controll the muscular motions, the bones, the balance?
When you are in nature, observe it.. Observe the trees, the leaves, the birds.. the complexity of the whole enviroment... Some manager here? LOOK! Does life, does appearances need a controller? And may the Gwendy-appearance be there? May life wear the Gwendy-appearance-clothes? Something wrong with this?
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 8:54 pm

Mmmm thanks for the questions. I'm gonna need more time to answer them <3

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:30 am

How does this „someone“ feel like?
I can't find this "someone"
Where does this „someone“ live?
Nowhere
And does this entity controll the muscular motions, the bones, the balance?
There is no entity just energy, thoughts, feelings, smells, colors …..
When you are in nature, observe it.. Observe the trees, the leaves, the birds.. the complexity of the whole enviroment... Some manager here?
No
LOOK! Does life, does appearances need a controller?
No
And may the Gwendy-appearance be there?

Yes of course ☺
May life wear the Gwendy-appearance-clothes?
Yes
Something wrong with this?
No absolutely not

THANK YOU and sorry that I sometimes need more time to be in nature or to really let the questions sink in. I know that you asked me to reply every day. ....

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Barb
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Re: Love

Postby Barb » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:01 pm

Very beautiful :)

And it's really o.k to need more time.. I asked you to post every or every second day, or to tell me, if you need more time.. No need for apologize :) And it is a pleasure that you are willing to look so closely and so honest...

Do you have any questions? For me it looks like you have seen through the illusion.. Are you ready for the final questions, this would be also be a good opportunitiy to look where we are standing :)

Much love <3
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:18 pm

final questions? Shoot :-)

much love tot you too

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Barb
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Re: Love

Postby Barb » Fri Dec 07, 2018 2:34 pm

:)

Here they are:


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?



Take all the time you need :) <3
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom

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Gwendy
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Re: Love

Postby Gwendy » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:24 pm

1)
Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No there is no seperate entity and there never was
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
The illusion of a seperate self is the belief in the existence of a seperate entity, a person, a me, a Gwen that is living and controlling life.

From the age of two or three years old her parents named it Gwen. It started to believe that she was the body. That she was Gwen.
Her dad committed suicide when she was 4 and her traumatised mom (who had a very difficilt childhood) raised her.

Gwen’s primary goal and focus in life was to protect the body and keep it safe, young, healthy and beautiful.
As she got older she started to look for freedom, pleasure, happiness, (unconditional) love, approval, respect and rest in the world.
She wanted to avoid pain (painful feelings were so overwhelming her) at all cost.
Pain was unevitable, so she started to numb herself with smoking cigarettes and she became boulemic for years. These were her escape routes.

She did everything for her survival. She believed that she was the one thinking the thoughts, that she was seeing, hearing smelling, tasting and feeling. She believed that it was all about her. That she was the center of existence ( ☺)

When she realised that she could not find what she was looking for in the world she started to turn the attention inward and started to search for enlightenment, freemdom and rest. She started to eat healthy, stopped smoking, stopped drinking coffee and didn’t touch any alcohol anymore. She decided to stop numbing herself.

In the ten years that followed she started to understand rationally that the search for freedom, love, enlightenment was only taking her away from ‘what is’ here and now.
The search was Gwen’s survival mechanism.
It was what she had been doing all her life. She was searching for better, different, more. ….She was searching for ANYTHING but THIS! ☺) THIS was not enough.
Instead of looking, remembering and seeing what was always and already here and now. LIFE as it appeared!

(OMG funny isn’t it. )
Now there is more clarity and the search has finally stopped.
It’s seen that there is no Gwen, no person, no me running the show. That there is no center to life. That there’s only life.
Thinking, seeing, feeling, hearing, smelling, tasting just happens.
No matter what appears, the beauty or the beast, the most amazing or the most horrible, the most sain or the most sick, is IT.

2)How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
No specific feeling. Its more a relaxation.
An OK ness. Life as it is. The struggle, the searching, the NO to life has stopped.
It’s seen that that there are thoughts and sensations but they don’t belong to someone. There just here. The reactiveness, the “personal” defense mechanisms are seen through. Life is not personal, never was.
Before I started this dialogue I was still searching and saying no. (vigilance is necessary! )
One way or another I had to cross that gate. Now I wonder who would cross it. There is no one to cross it and there never was a gate ☺
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
The following conversation between us:

Have you ever experience the „this“ you are speaking from?
It’s not an experience, NO
If it was an experience it would have a beginning and an end and it would change
This is unchangeable
Are this more than thoughts? If you never has experienced „this“, and if there is only experience, what are you talking about?

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
There is no one that makes a decision, decisions are just made. No one in control.
Thoughts appear about choosing, maybe about one thing being better than the other. It has nothing to do with reality. How can one thing be better than another.
Never thought I would say this. ☺

No one to set an intention.
No one there. Just thoughts appearing about an intention; Nothing wrong with that. I remember some years ago my intention was to try to accept everything that appeared. After one week of trying I just lost it. I went completely bananas ☺ ☺

there is no free will,
Everything is just the way it is, it couldn’t be any other way.
I spent more than 15 years searching for enlightenment. As I see it it now it was a waste of time and energy but I didn’t choose it.

There is no one in control. There’s no controller, no manager. Things just happen, appearences appear. The sun came up this morning, the wind blew, eyes were opening, the warmth of the blanket, the beating of the heart, the softness of my dog's coat, …..
What makes things happen?
Things just happen. The phone just rings, spring turns into summer, it starts raining, the sun coming through the clouds, a bird singing, a barking dog, poop on the street, a feeling of hunger, ….No manager!
How does it work?
I have no idea, it can’t be any other way. It’s just the way it is.
What are you responsible for?
For nothing
There is no one here to be responsible for anything.
6) Anything to add?

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Barb
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Re: Love

Postby Barb » Sun Dec 09, 2018 12:15 pm

Thank you! So beautiful :)

It's such great pleasure when seeing happens :)

I have no more questions.. Some other guides will read over the thread if they have any questions.. This could last a little bit.

And look in your pm folder soon, i will write you a message... :)

Much love and thank you for your trust <3
Looking —> Seeing....Seeing —> Freedom


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