Seeking the end of "me"

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:19 pm

Haha.

Yes, much clearer and precise. Allowed for direct looking and noticing without too many intellectual type thoughts.

For number 6, I will observe for a day or two to see if any questions arise

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Jadzia
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby Jadzia » Fri Dec 14, 2018 2:34 pm

:-)

Intellectual thinking can be such a big habit and it takes a while to not always jump to it and go into the relaxing not-thinking.

Take your time.

Love,
Jadzia

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Sat Dec 15, 2018 5:15 pm

Well the only question I would have is for good ways to relax thinking, but I already know the answer : meditation (which intimidates me for some reason), direct looking and noticing, and self inquiry. Luckily it seems they can all be one practice and just need to build a good habit of doing this, with this new perspective you have helped me find.

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Jadzia
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby Jadzia » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:04 pm

Well the only question I would have is for good ways to relax thinking, but I already know the answer : meditation (which intimidates me for some reason), direct looking and noticing, and self inquiry. Luckily it seems they can all be one practice and just need to build a good habit of doing this, with this new perspective you have helped me find.
Meditation is fine if you want to do it.
Noticing is fine.
What self will you inquire into? Honestly, where do you find a self?
Doesn't it only appear in thought?
So noticing thought is enough, isn't it? And forgetting about noticing thoughts and falling for them is fine, too.

Big question who exactly wants to relax thinking?
Who is intimidated of meditation?
Who wants to do the looking and noticing?

Thinking is, as life happens - so who bothers?

Habits fade with the time. There is no thinker. No thinker of thoughts. So who or what wants to relax them?

Love,
Jadzia

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Sat Dec 15, 2018 7:50 pm

Well from what I understand about self inquiry, the point is to dispel any hiding beliefs and feelings of a self by searching for it and ultimately not finding one. I guess. From the method I was introduced to, it is pretty much just noticing thought.

I will answer your other questions later after work.

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Jadzia
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby Jadzia » Sat Dec 15, 2018 8:01 pm

Bear with me, ok?
Well from what I understand about self inquiry, the point is to dispel any hiding beliefs and feelings of a self by searching for it and ultimately not finding one.
Self inquiry is a misnomer. The self is nothing but a construct in thoughts.
There is no hidden belief of a self and no feeling of a self. What is there is thoughts=beliefs and more thoughts=feeling of a self.
What can be found is experience which can be labeled with different words like seeing, hearing, physical feeling ect.

Did you find a self other than in thought? Do you right now?
If you don't find something, you know it is not there or? One can look again just to make sure, but when is this "ltimately not finding one" to happen?

Love,
Jadzia

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Sat Dec 15, 2018 9:12 pm

Hey,
Ok, honestly I never understood it anyway so I get what you are saying. Never made sense to look for a self when already realize it won't be found. Noticing thought is enough.

I cannot and never have found a self other than in thought. The 'ultimately not finding one' can not happen because this suggests something happening in future, and no self can be found NOW.

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Sat Dec 15, 2018 11:01 pm

Ok i looked at who wants to relax thinking and found no one to want this. There were thoughts of needing to relax thinking based on your response of :
Intellectual thinking can be such a big habit and it takes a while to not always jump to it and go into the relaxing not-thinking
.

But this was a misconception that you were telling me to relax thinking, when you were really saying that the 'relaxing non - thinking' will arise, right? So a case of miinterpretaion by thought

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Jadzia
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby Jadzia » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:32 am

I cannot and never have found a self other than in thought. The 'ultimately not finding one' can not happen because this suggests something happening in future, and no self can be found NOW.
Could there be an expectation hiding around?
Like: One day it will be super duper clear and I so will know it without the tiniest doubt?

What about identification, for example the one as smart thinker, smart developer of ideas or clever thoughts ect. ?
In most societies the training into this intellectual thinking is strong.
Look at what it does and what it is used for.
Also check what turns up in thoughts about the I am-s: "I am an original thinker" or others.
What are the thoughts connect withthe I am-s?
But this was a misconception that you were telling me to relax thinking, when you were really saying that the 'relaxing non - thinking' will arise, right?
Non thinking will arise, thinking will arise/appear. Both are fine. It is only a thought story which speaks about what is preferred.

But yes, for most thinking calms down…… until the next dentist visit. ;-)

Love,
Jadzia

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Sun Dec 16, 2018 9:10 pm

Who is intimidated of meditation?
There is no one to be intimidated. There are thoughts of intimidation, which arises during what thought labels as certain circumstances. It is content of thought.
Who wants to do the looking and noticing?
There is no self which wants to do this. There are thoughts of a self looking and noticing, which in thought-story seems to be a result of an other pointing to do this. All of this is thought-story, including the looking and noticing being a result of anything.
Thinking is, as life happens - so who bothers?
There is no one who bothers. Everything is happening exactly as it is, including the thoughts which label what is.
There is no thinker. No thinker of thoughts. So who or what wants to relax them?
There is no one to relax thoughts. Relaxation of thought may or may not arise. There is no one to expect this to happen. But thoughts of expectation may or may not arise.
Could there be an expectation hiding around? 
Like: One day it will be super duper clear and I so will know it without the tiniest doubt?
Yes, there are thoughts of such an expectation.



I will answer your other questions later, but I have one. There is awareness of thought, and there is thought of being aware. Is it the 'thought of being aware' itself which creates this illusion of separation?

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:37 am

Ok, I redact my question.... I get it. There is no illusion of separation, just as there is no one to experience the illusion. There is only experience. And thought labels experience as an illusion of separation.

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Jadzia
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby Jadzia » Mon Dec 17, 2018 7:17 am

There is no illusion of separation, just as there is no one to experience the illusion. There is only experience. And thought labels experience as an illusion of separation.
Thought labels experience, the raw experience, which just is.
Does thought label experience as illusion or is the illusion appearing because of the labeling?

Love,
Jadzia

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:37 pm

Thought labels experience, the raw experience, which just is.
Does thought label experience as illusion or is the illusion appearing because of the labeling?
Who would this illusion appear to? There can only be thoughts of an illusion.

thanks,
Justin

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Jadzia
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby Jadzia » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:23 pm

Justin, since you don't have any more questions I would show your answers to other guides now and see if they have now.

Love,
Jadzia

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endofme
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Re: Seeking the end of "me"

Postby endofme » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:29 pm

Jadzia,
OK, thank you for everything so far.

Questions might arise, or not. We'll see.

Thank you,
Justin


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