Freedom

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:12 pm

Hiya, back from tennis. Went into garden and noticed the sounds, sights, wind making noises with everything despite being invisible it orchestrates sounds, movements, sensations,feeling of breeze and sun coming and going on my face, making the leaves tinkle, twinkle and swaying, sound of the river nearby, the bees on the roses and lavender, seeing all the clouds slowly moving, changing shape. All happening simultaneously and in the spaciousness of what is. All move as part of a whole. There’s stillness too. It was a lovely, sweet feeling as the weather was gentle. The emotions would be different with different weather.
I’ll read Ilona’s thing now.x

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:43 pm

Sounds good.
Ilona has good guidance about this stage (step5). Read it and see what you think. (Let me know if you can't find it)
Can a separate self be found anywhere in your direct experience?
XX

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:43 pm

Sounds good.
Ilona has good guidance about this stage (step5). Read it and see what you think. (Let me know if you can't find it)
Can a separate self be found anywhere in your direct experience?
XX

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:54 pm

Yes it’s very clear and I think I’m becoming more settled in just being awareness? Well, more accurately, there’s just awareness listening, hearing, feeling, being. The separate sense of self is fading. No it can’t be found.x

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:56 pm

Good.
Any doubts now?

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:05 pm

No doubts although I do see the habitual thoughts of a me and I claiming but they’re swiftly dismissed.

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:08 pm

Good.
The habitual thoughts won't go just like that, but that's all they are.
If like us to go to the final questions next, if that's ok with you?
Xx

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:23 pm

Fire away!

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:01 pm

It'll be this evening, as I haven't got them to hand. But there's nothing tricky. You just need to answer from your actual experience xx

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:03 pm

Thanks, hear from you later.x

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:55 pm

Here you go!
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was
there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from
your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?
Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen?
How does it work? What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?

xx

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:05 am

1. There’s no separate entity, self, me, in any way shape or form.
2. The separate self is learnt, beginning from a very small child when language is introduced and teaches them to label things so that what was an overall unified awareness then gets separated into seeming parts separate from the child and separate from each other. It works by labelling experiences, some that feel good or some bad, approved or disapproved. Because things now feel ‘out there’ we begin to feel we need to control them and do things or choose things, people, experiences in order to bring comfort, happiness, appreciation and push away those that won’t or that feel painful or unpleasant. If we feel out of control then we feel anything can happen to jeopardise our peace of mind and wellbeing. So life becomes a constant process of doing our utmost to push away anything that threatens and orchestrate things which we consider would be best for ourselves. Along with this come comparisons, judgements and following that come feelings of superiority or inferiority, greed, insecurity and more fear. Trust becomes undermined. The world out there is fraught with possible threats. It’s not questioned generally and actually it’s constantly confirmed and applauded by convention. Time and space are also concepts that are all part and parcel of having a ‘self’. The illusion is clearly not seen in the separate ‘jigsaw bits ‘brought upon by language and labelling. The illusion would be destroyed by seeing the completed jigsaw as one whole, beautiful picture. Each labelled ‘part ‘ in life would then be seen only as apparent and not true and only a kind of mirage.An illusion. There’s no me or I or separate self to have to do anything as those are all thoughts that have been crystallised into non existent ‘facts’ that we’ve believed in and there’s no we either!
3. Now there’s a seeing through the illusion by looking with an awareness which Is softer, one that is inclusive of all that is going on in its isness or beingness. In a sense, instead of lots of seeming selves, alienated from one another caused by an erroneous sense of separate self, there’s an inclusiveness, a seamless all. I noticed yesterday at tennis that i didn’t feel so competitive and could listen to the players chat cheerfully (like birds twittering in the trees) without having feelings of possible inadequacy or unnecessary self protective feelings. There was a lighter, freer warmth around. There’s a strange awareness now that walking along there’s a sense of no one is going anywhere, there’s just appearance of happenings passing through the immovable stillness and /or ‘witness’.
3. It feels simpler, slower, more trusting and accepting of what happens so less resistance. Knowing the ‘I’ can’t control as there is no I and no doer there’s a relaxing into being life and not thinking there’s anything or anyone that controls.
4. I’m not sure what was the last bit that pushed. I’ve been reading, watching stuff around there’s no self or doer etc for a long time. Maybe having a guide who really makes me look at it intensely has been the catalyst. Just slowly watching what’s going on and keeping on questioning, breaking concepts down and watching what’s really happening has started to wear done the given way of accepting how things were. Even from the start the exercises you’ve given me began to loosen the illusion. They’ve continued to erode the old way of seeing.
5. Nothing really makes things happen that I can see, it would only be a presumed answer so I cannot really say. Decisions seem to be thoughts and as such they just arrive and actions then are acted. There’s only a sense of or seeming free will but that’s all. Even when seen through, thoughts still put the different arguments for whatever and then a motion happens and that has been seemingly chosen by no one. All just labels. I’ve noticed sensing of control still carries on but with no controller! I feel that’ll lessen like the blades of a fan that has been turned off carrying on. Intentions are energised thoughts that are acted on or not but with no actor. I’m not responsible for anything as there’s no I, stuff happens. E.g Increasingly thoughts appear to arise reminding of a forgotten task that needs to be done, all orchestrated effortlessly. Just noticing that everything is being and doing and just like nature is doing it’s thing so is everything else and yet nothing is being done. Just an example of how thoughts just stream in background is when I notice I’m doing something and a thought pops up how I must do something and am already doing it!!

Phew .....seem to have over egged this task! Hoping nothing missed or unanswered! Xx

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:23 am

On the first question: Was there ever?

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:25 am

And 6, anything to add?
Xx

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:36 am

1. No, now with the seeing, there never was.
6. All of this work leaves a not knowing of anything and just awareness, being...still ghost like feelings and thoughts and illusory knee jerk responses that appear as if the dissolving concepts once existed.
This has been a very energetic exercise, feeling as ‘ive’ been to the gym on a level! Wrung out!

Thanks xx


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