Freedom

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:31 pm

Thanks for Ilona’s quote. I’ll keep that as a reminder. Mmmm expectations...well today I feel I’ve been having a few new feelings... of letting go, less of running background commentaries, less bound up in everything I do or say, not having so many judging thoughts of anyone or anything. Beginning to see how simple it is, a relaxing into it. Seeing that there’s nothing ‘spiritual ‘ in the conventional way of thinking about it. It’s so ordinary that (dare I say?) I’ve been wondering what’ll move in instead of the whole circus of spiritual modus vivendi that has gone on for so long! But then that’s discarded as just another thought. I feel this is just a tentative whiff of change! So I suppose there’s only a feeling that it’ll be easier just being the stuff happening without interfering or worrying so much although interfering and worrying will occur but with nothing to Velcro onto. I suppose in this seeing the expectations naturally tend to drop away seeing that they’re thoughts of stuff that may or mayn’t happen, probably won’t! So a deeper sigh into life, letting go and generally a paradoxical feeling of all is well despite shit happening. X

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:12 pm

. Beginning to see how simple it is, a relaxing into it. Seeing that there’s nothing ‘spiritual ‘ in the conventional way of thinking about it. It’s so ordinary
YES!!!
All excellent, in fact. Great.

Have a go at this one next:
Take a few relaxed breaths to let the dust settle for a while, and then:

Look on your right.

Then look on your left.

Finally, bring your head back to centre, close your eyes and look in front.

Okay, so when you look on the right, the view on the right is seen (whatever that is).

When you look on the left, the view on the left is seen (whatever that is).

And then, when you look in front of you with eyes closed, the view in front is seen (ie ‘black space’).

So, when the view on the right is seen, do you have the ‘choice’ not to see? I’m not asking can you ‘choose’ to see something else like another view or ‘black space’ if you close your eyes. The question is; can you turn seeing off? Can you NOT see what is seen?

Same thing with the view on the left, can you NOT see the view on the left?

Same thing with the view in front with closed eyes, can you NOT see the ‘black space’?

Can you turn off seeing?

What did the 'chooser' choose? Did a 'self' choose something?

If you are unable to choose what you're aware of, then what else is there to choose?


xxx

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:22 pm

Exactly, there’s no choice as seeing just happens whatever. Just carries on seeing. Quite sweet really.
As I said before there’s a feeling like when, as a child, you first ride your bike with no handle bars! I find I’m not hurrying with a task to get things done or finished so as the ‘self’ can tick that job off. Much more ease.

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 2:26 pm

Fab.
And ...
Find a comfortable place to sit or lie.
Take in a few deep breaths to settle the dust and then relax for a bit.

Spend only 30 to 60 seconds on each component of this exercise.
Bring your awareness to your entire body - sense it fully, head to toe.
Run your hands down over your torso. Feel the solidity of it.
Now bring your awareness to your feet. Again, feel them. Move them a bit.
Then bring your awareness to your hands. Open and close them.
Bring your awareness to your face - all of it. Touch it with your hand.
Now point your index finger to where "insert name" is located.
Touch the exact location of "insert name".

Answer these questions:

Were you able to find and feel "insert name" in a direct way like the other parts of your body?
Where is it?
What did you find? Something? Anything? Nothing?
What sensations did you feel in your body that identified "insert name” (If any).

Tell me what you experienced and found, by way of direct experience.

xx

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:17 pm

Yes It was easy to find then point and then touch the words “insert name” on your page. I found nothing except pointing with finger and then touching . I felt nothing in the body when I did that except the feeling of the finger having a sensation of pressing on solid surface. That was all that was experienced...same but nothing.
Hope I’ve understood this exercise properly. X

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:22 pm

I wonder if I missed a bit of of the instructions. Where it says "insert name" you should say to yourself "Deborah"

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:13 pm

Oh I’ll try again, thought I’d missed something!

I don’t think I felt any different than the bodily exercises. I got a slight feeling as if I was labelling myself. Or even that I could be pointing to anything and labelling it. Bit like you do when you point to a small baby/ child and say their name or point to things and label them when you teach a child to talk.I felt somewhat detached from the name Deborah.

(Funnily enough if you’d said type Deborah and look at it I then feel something warm and expansive but not exactly identified. Feels like Life is looking at the word and loving it but not In a personal sense more like the sun shining on/through it. Sorry gone bit off piste here!)

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:42 pm

Sorry about that!
Thought points to the feet being ‘down there’, so presumably you are above your feet. Where are you?
Sit quietly, take in a few deep breaths and then close your eyes.
Locate where you feel yourself to be. Locate yourself vertically in the body, horizontally to the left or right, and depth, how far in. Feel how big you are, where you reside. Then point with a finger to ‘Deborah’. Open your eyes, where is your finger pointing?

xx

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:16 pm

I couldn’t locate ‘myself’ anywhere, if anything the sense was that it spread far out beyond the body and so there was no ‘how far in’ as it was just spaciousness so all words like ‘in’ and ‘around’ seemed like too much locating. As for pointing to Deborah it felt surplus to need as Deborah isn’t the body, isn’t anything, it’s just a word but because I felt I should do the exercise even though it didn’t exactly compute I faithfully pointed to the body to around the lower tummy!

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:22 pm

Well done for giving it a go anyway.

What is the sense of self? Where is it! What is it made of?

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:23 pm

Sense of self is just that a sense,nothing more; comes from a whole lot of visceral feelings, sensations, memories, habitual thoughts. Just a habitual almost addictive way of thinking and owning of physical and emotional sensations which seem permanently ‘streaming’ and being confirmed by myself and others. It feels as if it’s colluding and colluded with by everyone around, media, books, films etc but it’s all in my own head, I know. Where is it? Nowhere, it’s a verb self-sensing. It has no ontological existence.

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:27 pm

Aha, good.
What I'm wanting to tease out now is where there might be a residual sense of a "self" or of an "I".
Any thoughts yourself?

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:28 pm

Or... is it in your head! is that a n n of a self as a kind of controller?
AND...
"It has no ontological existence" -how does that feel?

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Debtfree
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Re: Freedom

Postby Debtfree » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:22 pm

Yes, well I don’t blame you wanting to see if there’s any residual, sneaky sense of I and me and self! Think the controller idea (know totally it not to be the case but properly embodying it will need strengthening) is definitely fading but it’ll be noted if it pops up. I (who?) can’t be totally sure there’s not some around as it’s so habitual to think in the old way but there’ll be a guard on duty, there’s an assurance of that. Until any residual symptoms are fully extricated the first person singular may have to be linguistically avoided or at least be wary of. I know that sounds a bit clumsy but it is a way of remembering what’s being learnt. Noticing how language can really help or hinder during the early stages of all this. Having said that there are many times when I say I and me and it feels totally ‘clean’.

It feels good that it hasn’t an ontological existence. Definitely lightens, frees and clarifies things? Many moons ago when reading phsychology books they used to say how important it was to have a healthy ontological sense of self and this used to give ‘me’ a real concern as it didn’t feel that described Deborah.

This has been a bit of a day to remember (or not?), a definite wind of change has been in the air. At one point tears came of humour and relief. I’m so very appreciative of your being there, such a real blessing. Thank you so much Sioned. Xx

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Seamist
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Re: Freedom

Postby Seamist » Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:29 pm

That's my job! ( To check where your up to).
Lovely to read your post, Deborah. A delight!
More tomorrow
XX


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