Knocking at the gate.

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PHK
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Re: Knocking at the gate.

Postby PHK » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:27 pm

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No, there isn't and never has been a separate entity - "self," "me," "I" in any shape or form, ever.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience.
Describe it fully as you see it now.
When a baby holds a rattle in its hand it doesn't know where it (the baby) ends and the rattle begins. Its eyes are big and wide and it smiles in the midst of direct experience. In an effort to teach the baby language its parents utter sounds (words) and through gesture and expressions, encourage the baby to link the uttered sound to a pattern of experience. The baby learns to link a limited range of experience (seeing, touching, smelling, hearing) to the uttered sound, and so the illusion of division begins within the unified whole. Now the baby's parents encourage it to utter the same sound and the baby is rewarded by smiles, touches and gestures when it succeeds. The baby links the sound to what it now "sees" as a separate object. The baby divides things up in its consciousness and begins to ask its parents what sound it should attach to it. Rewards are given for the correct linking of "discreet objects" to sounds (words) and sometimes gold stars are put on wall charts. The baby is soon able to grasp the meaning of conceptual words rather than just words representing the physical objects it experiences, and so an understanding is established of the "meaning" of words such as "I", "Me", "Mine," and the notion that the baby/infant is a separate being that owns separate objects takes root. The infant is encouraged to understand which is "daddy's chair," which is "mummy's chair," and which is "my chair." When these concepts are grasped the infant is rewarded with touches, smiles, and more gold stars, or occasionally gifts and treats. The "I/Me/Mine," idea is now firmly established and is no more questioned than is the act of breathing. With division comes conflict, the experience of which becomes established at a deep level. One day the adult may begin searching for the root of the conflict. Years may pass without it being found until the unfolding of life leads to the examination of that which is so close it was never questioned - the concept of "I" and its apparent validity.
3) How does it feel to see this?


There are two feelings occurring: 1) A sense of relief - a little like inserting the last piece of a 1000 piece jigsaw puzzle that you were determined to finish but had often doubted you would. 2) A sense of calmness/flow.
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue?


There is more direct experience now. Before, just after experiencing happened the labelling machine jumped in and turned everything into words/concepts, which were then experienced, making the experience of everything "second hand" or remote. Now it's much more raw. Not all the time, of course. The labelling machine hasn't fully switched off, but thoughts are seen to be just thoughts much quicker now.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
The last bit that "pushed me over" was seeing through the trap inherent in the idea, "You are awareness." In searching over the years I had grasped that I was not my thoughts, feelings, body etc, and had settled on the idea that "I" was awareness. What wasn't seen was that the idea "I am awareness" is a trap which merely replaces body, thoughts, feelings with another object for the "I" to identify with. The mistake, of course is saying that "I" is anything at all because "I" doesn't exist.
5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
None of these exist. They cannot exist without separation - and there is no separation. As I said in a previous post, " For someone or something to be in control of things they or it would have to be separate from the thing they or it wanted to exert control over. And that means that the universe would not be infinite - it would end where the so called "controller" began." For the same reason, decisions are never made (there's nobody to make them), and so it follows there is nobody to chose anything or to have free will.
b) What makes things happen? How does it work?
There is no causality (which would necessitate separation - one thing causing something to happen to another thing). All is the universe (one) and is unfolding, without cause. Things happen as part of that unfolding and for no other reason.
c) What are you responsible for?


There is no causality and there is no "me" so "I" cannot be responsible for anything.
d) Give examples from experience.
Within the "story of me" a successful business was created. A chain of decisions appeared to have been made which lead to what is regarded as a successful outcome. However, in truth those decisions were merely thoughts which appeared followed by a further thought of "I've made a decision." Thoughts are just thoughts. Sometimes they are thoughts about thoughts. There is no "me" to think them, so no "me" to make decisions, so no "I" to be the cause of an apparently successful outcome. What happened happened because the universe unfolded that way.
6) Anything to add?
Great appreciation is felt for the creation of Liberation Unleashed and the integrity within it. Direct Pointing (without compromise) cuts through and reveals truth. Without it SEEING is almost impossible. Buying a succession of different binoculars to help get a better view when gazing across the bay won't help much if the fog is in. Direct Pointing cuts through the fog. That you exist is a blessing.

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gondwana
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Re: Knocking at the gate.

Postby gondwana » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:25 am

That was really beautiful, thank you :)

I will now show our thread to the other guides, and see if there are any further questions. Back shortly.
Seen in the moment of looking, freed in the moment of seeing.

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gondwana
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Location: Australia

Re: Knocking at the gate.

Postby gondwana » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:54 am

There is more direct experience now. Before, just after experiencing happened the labelling machine jumped in and turned everything into words/concepts, which were then experienced, making the experience of everything "second hand" or remote. Now it's much more raw. Not all the time, of course. The labelling machine hasn't fully switched off, but thoughts are seen to be just thoughts much quicker now.
What exactly is wanting/expecting the labelling machine to switch off?
Seen in the moment of looking, freed in the moment of seeing.

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PHK
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Joined: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:56 pm

Re: Knocking at the gate.

Postby PHK » Fri Sep 21, 2018 4:08 pm

What exactly is wanting/expecting the labelling machine to switch off?
This question is in reference to the highlighted/quoted words above it. However, within those words there is no expression of wanting/expecting the labelling to switch off, just the reporting of the observation that, quite frequently, direct experience had been happening without labelling occurring, resulting in what appeared to be a more intense and lasting experience, which was not interrupted by thoughts and thoughts about thoughts.

If wanting and expecting the labelling machine to switch off were to occur, as there is no separate entity to do the wanting/expecting, the wanting/expecting could only be a thought built around the thought of the false "I" as it seeks to be the "controller." It seems that with the belief in a controller seen through the constant stream of thoughts quieten as the majority of them were attempts to classify and re-hash experience to gain some form of illusory control.

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gondwana
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Re: Knocking at the gate.

Postby gondwana » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:51 am

Thank you for that beautiful clarification. I especially liked the part about the stream of thoughts being attempts at re-classifying experience to gain illusory control :)

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