donothing

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:18 am

What is the best way to stop this, because there is no self, I have no doubts about this and there is certainly something different in 'me', I have a much lighter feeling overall. But the thoughts keep on coming?
It's weird, how thoughts are powerless and yet manage to maintain such an illusion!
Believing each and every thought and the belief that a someone called Margaret is the thinker of them is a strong well run in habit.
Can there be a thought "This is totally ennoying"? Oh yes, but no one is thinking it, there is just a thought habit playing out.
Can there be a thought "This has to stop!"? Oh yes, but there is no one to stop it, no one who has a need to stop it.
Well, you don't find this entity that thinks thoughts to be annoying and you don't find someone who wants to stop it, or?
Just more and more thoughts.

Once it is seen that the self, I, Margaret are just part of a story told, like in a book or film, everything can happen. Thoughts can shut up or give a big show, identification show up, more beliefs connected to the belief in self turn up and so on. It can be easy and beautiful, it can be hard work or anything in between. It is like an unravelling and there might still come up some resistance. All is fine.
For most of us thoughts go on doing what they do, tell stories. With the time, the belief in thoughts wanes more and more and drops more and more, which does quieten thougth.

Right now, use humor! There is no difference in being entertained by watching a film/story, or reading a book or watching thoughts. A good story is a good story.
Don't resist anything.
Anyway, this won't last.

A lighter feeling sounds nice, have a look what else changed or is changing. What about relationships or the way you act in certain situations? Change can be subtle.

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:56 pm

Hello Jadzia,
Thank you.
I'm going to watch closely and get back to you.
Love M

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:52 am

Hello Jadzia,
I hope you are well.
Sorry about the gap in communication, I had some bad news of a death on Thursday, and it was a real shock.

I have a question that I'd like to ask as the thoughts just keep on coming.
When somebody asks me a question, say for example an 'either-or' type question, 'Do you want to do this or that?' the ears hear. This information is transmitted to the brain and the voice responds. (we're ignoring thoughts here).
How is this decision made? Is it based purely on past experiences? (input).
How much can the brain be influenced by another brain? If it can be 'influenced' ie. a response not based purely on input, what is the driving force behind it?

I know all of this is thought/doubt and part of the 'story', but it's about understanding the mechanics of it all.
have a look what else changed or is changing. What about relationships or the way you act in certain situations? Change can be subtle.
I find this difficult to identify, I feel that I don't care as much ie. worry about possible outcomes. I feel more content.
I like people more, not that I didn't like them before, it's a more 'easy going' feeling towards them.

Love M

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Sat Oct 13, 2018 8:28 pm

Hello Margaret,

I've been on a day trip and came back later than thought, I will answer tomorrow.

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Sat Oct 13, 2018 9:46 pm

Okay, Jadzia, thank you.

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:30 am

Sorry about the gap in communication, I had some bad news of a death on Thursday, and it was a real shock.
I am sorry to hear this.
When somebody asks me a question, say for example an 'either-or' type question, 'Do you want to do this or that?' the ears hear. This information is transmitted to the brain and the voice responds. (we're ignoring thoughts here).
How is this decision made? Is it based purely on past experiences? (input).
How much can the brain be influenced by another brain? If it can be 'influenced' ie. a response not based purely on input, what is the driving force behind it?Who or what makes a decision?
These are questions that would come of what could be called logical thinking/ a mind. There are things we learned in school or read later on, is learned knowledge = memory = content of thought which makes this thinking ABOUT which differs from plain and simple looking.

You seem to substitute the thinker/decider Margaret with thinker/decider brain.
It is something most people would agree on, thoughts are ‘made’ in the brain and through deliberating using memory=experience=Learned knowledge decisions are found. The process can be understood and is in some way logical. This is the general idea. Right?

Let’s get back to looking.
If there is no entity ‘I’ or Margaret found, is there something or someone who makes a decision?
Is a decision really made, like with an effort, deliberating about some stuff and so on, or does it simply happen?
Go look, can you find any mechanism, a way a decision is found? Look carefully.

You can use following exercise:
Take two different sort of food and after deliberating pro and cons of the food, pick one and eat it.
Watch like a hawk, can anything/anyone be found what/who decided?

Brain? Can you find evidence for it if you only stick to what you can find in actual experience?
Look again, can a brain be found in AE?

You can notice a thought, but can you find the content of a thought in AE?
I find this difficult to identify, I feel that I don't care as much ie. worry about possible outcomes. I feel more content.
I like people more, not that I didn't like them before, it's a more 'easy going' feeling towards them.
Good. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Sun Oct 14, 2018 6:47 pm

Hi Jadzia,
Thank you for your early response and I hope you enjoyed your day trip!
You seem to substitute the thinker/decider Margaret with thinker/decider brain.
It is something most people would agree on, thoughts are ‘made’ in the brain and through deliberating using memory=experience=Learned knowledge decisions are found. The process can be understood and is in some way logical. This is the general idea. Right?
Yes I understand this, so can we say this is the case for any decision that can be found from learned knowledge/memories/repetition, and it will therefore never be creative or new. With other decisions that have little association with any memories, life's energy will make the decision as part of the whole working together?
If there is no entity ‘I’ or Margaret found, is there something or someone who makes a decision?
Is a decision really made, like with an effort, deliberating about some stuff and so on, or does it simply happen?
Go look, can you find any mechanism, a way a decision is found? Look carefully.
No, there is no person who makes a decision it does just seems to happen.
I tried your example using a chocolate bar (Bounty) and a bag of crisps. I thought about the pros and cons of each, even though I do like both of these. But I then reached for the bounty and ate it, the deliberating really seemed to make no difference. (it was delicious, I made the right decision!) I guess it was what my body felt like at the time.
Brain? Can you find evidence for it if you only stick to what you can find in actual experience?
Look again, can a brain be found in AE?
No, in AE, there is never any evidence of a brain, even though it is being used.
You can notice a thought, but can you find the content of a thought in AE?
I've checked this out a lot, no, there is no thought content in AE. When thought content is noticed I am no longer seeing, I'm just thinking about.

Love M

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:33 am

Oh, you missed the point somewhat.
It is something most people would agree on, thoughts are ‘made’ in the brain and through deliberating using memory=experience=Learned knowledge decisions are found. The process can be understood and is in some way logical. This is the general idea. Right?
I probably should have made it clearer.
In this investigation we don’t deal with assumptions, we have a clear look at what can be found in AE.
The paragraph above is an assumption, this is something which seems to be like but can’t be known, as something is known in AE.
You don’t find brain in AE, so you can only assume that you have one or that it is being used.
All thoughts, nothing in AE.
I've checked this out a lot, no, there is no thought content in AE. When thought content is noticed I am no longer seeing, I'm just thinking about.
Right, a good example is a meal you just had. You can think about it, you can remember the texture, the taste the smell. But can it be found in AE right now?

What is learned knowledge/memories/repetition in AE?
Thought. What this thought is about can’t be found in AE.

What is life’s energy for you?

For the moment try not to over think things, just look.

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:41 pm

Hi Jadzia,
Oh, you missed the point somewhat.
I'm not sure what was meant here.

I was agreeing with the assumption about the brain finding decisions from learned knowledge, but this does not play a part in AE. Actual/direct experience is being totally in the present moment where things are known only, everything is being experienced in that moment and is real.

But unfortunately present moment experiencing does not last long, because the content of thought is soon noticed and it distracts from the actual experience.
Right, a good example is a meal you just had. You can think about it, you can remember the texture, the taste the smell. But can it be found in AE right now?
No, it cannot be found in AE because it is a memory/a thought and they are not real.
What is learned knowledge/memories/repetition in AE?
Learned knowledge, memories and repetition play no part in AE because they are brain processes they are not experienced.
Thought. What this thought is about can’t be found in AE.
AE
No, the content of a thought can not be found in AE, because the content is not real.

Jadzia, please let me know if I'm getting this completely wrong and I've misunderstood you again. If necessary I will start from scratch again.
What is life’s energy for you?
I see life as an energy of which we are all part. This energy has a sort of preservation law that protects it, and connectedness is one of those laws. So there is some sort of energy at work to maintain this connectedness between all of it's parts. (I had to think a lot about this question as I have not really put it into words before).

Love M

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Mon Oct 15, 2018 8:29 pm

Margaret, all is fine. It is just important to be sure about what is, as we call it, real, and what is assumption, mere belief. Up to now your life was ruled by beliefs and assumptions, which you might have questioned now and then but still they ruled.
Shedding the belief in being a separate entity is step one. You will find there are more beliefs to be questioned, which will fall apart by looking. So for a while avoid lengthy thought explanations and trying to find definitions. What is will show itself more and more with the falling away of identifications, beliefs, concepts.
I see life as an energy of which we are all part. This energy has a sort of preservation law that protects it, and connectedness is one of those laws. So there is some sort of energy at work to maintain this connectedness between all of it's parts. (I had to think a lot about this question as I have not really put it into words before).
There being something – life/energy – and there being parts of it points to separation. But there is no separation at all, none.

Are there really different parts?
We say, there is you and there is me, are these two different and separate parts?
For a moment think a thought about someone labeled friend.
Then bring up a thought about a character labelled stranger.

Compare these thoughts.
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
Is there a true difference or is it just different content?

Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled friend
After that, look at a thought about the character labeled Margaret/me.
Is there a difference?

In case you don't find a difference what does it mean?

When you look behind you and me, all the different appearances, when all of this would drop away including all theories and explanations– what is found?

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:37 am

Hi Jadzia,

Thank you.
For a moment think a thought about someone labeled friend.
Then bring up a thought about a character labelled stranger.

Compare these thoughts.
Is there a difference in these thoughts?
Is there a true difference or is it just different content?
There is a difference in thought content only.
Now, bring up a thought about a character labelled friend
After that, look at a thought about the character labeled Margaret/me.
Is there a difference?

Again, a difference in thought content only, which isn't real anyway.

In case you don't find a difference what does it mean?
We are the same.
When you look behind you and me, all the different appearances, when all of this would drop away including all theories and explanations– what is found?
Nothing.
Without this identification, there is no 'me' or' you', just life happening.

I'm not sure why but this has bought a whole new meaning to 'thought just happens', because although I know there is no separate self, thoughts have kept on happening to 'me', I have continuously got caught up in them as if there is a me listening to them, visualizing them, identifying with them. Now I'm seeing them as brain waste, some waste may be useful but it is just an outlet for the brain. I feel rather silly.

Love M

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:11 pm

I'm not sure why but this has bought a whole new meaning to 'thought just happens', because although I know there is no separate self, thoughts have kept on happening to 'me', I have continuously got caught up in them as if there is a me listening to them, visualizing them, identifying with them. Now I'm seeing them as brain waste, some waste may be useful but it is just an outlet for the brain. I feel rather silly.
Beautiful.

Who is the one feeling silly? No one, right? Thoughts and their habits, tsk.
The new overview sinks in slowly, and step by step – so there might be more chances for wearing a sheepish grin. ;-)

It might be helpful to see thoughts just as This or Life.

Now lets have a look at senses. This is something good to look at since it can help with the sinking in of the new/old overview.

Usually it is thought that the I is the hearer.
Take any sound you hear right now and allow your attention to rest on it.
Can you find a hearer, something or someone, or is there just hearing?

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:21 pm

Hi Jadzia,
When listening to a sound attentively, there is no hearer, it is just listening. But throughout the day, there is sometimes an awareness of the ' I am the hearer' thought in the background especially in conversation. More attentiveness may reduce these thoughts, this will be practised.

Love M

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Jadzia
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Re: donothing

Postby Jadzia » Tue Oct 16, 2018 8:26 pm

When listening to a sound attentively, there is no hearer, it is just listening. But throughout the day, there is sometimes an awareness of the ' I am the hearer' thought in the background especially in conversation. More attentiveness may reduce these thoughts, this will be practised.
Yes, just hearing.
There is always just hearing whatever thoughts say - so is practising really needed or is this a thought too? Same with "more attentiveness. Really needed or just a thought telling so?

Lets go to feeling.
If you sit at a table, put your hand onto the table.
What exactly is felt? Table and hand or just one feeling?
Is there a feeler doing the feeling?

Love,
Jadzia

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Gem47
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Re: donothing

Postby Gem47 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 5:00 pm

Hi Jadzia,

When I touch a table it is one sensation and no feeler.
Hearing is just hearing with no hearer, however. I am paying attention when doing the tasks.

But what is the best approach in everyday life? How do you reduce thinking so that life can be experienced directly most or all of the time. What sort of effort, if any, should be made at this stage?

Love, M


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