Newbie

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Allybally
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Newbie

Postby Allybally » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:47 am

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Breaking through the illusion my mind creates to convince me that i am a separate entity in my body

What are you looking for at LU?
Some guidance on how to actually experience oneness/liberation from the self empirically. To feel part of a community and to have others to talk to and discuss things. I currently dont know many people i can talk to about this.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
For someone to share their experience of how they found liberation and their practices such a meditation methods for achieving that. Some guidance that they think may work for me and general discussion of topics.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
One year ago i started a journey to try and find out what the truth was about the nature of consciousness, how my mind works and to have a better connection to myself, nature and other people. I have since read many books and am currently trying to develop meditation practices

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

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Anastacia42
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Re: Newbie

Postby Anastacia42 » Wed Aug 22, 2018 10:38 pm

Hi Allybally,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide if you like. What would you like for me to call you? Is it "Ally?"
Some guidance on how to actually experience oneness/liberation from the self empirically. To feel part of a community and to have others to talk to and discuss things. I currently dont know many people i can talk to about this.
At first it will be just you and me on this thread, with no one else participating here. However, after you see there is no self, there are plenty of opportunities for community with others who have passed the gateless gate here.
For someone to share their experience of how they found liberation and their practices such a meditation methods for achieving that. Some guidance that they think may work for me and general discussion of topics.
Every person's experience is different. While I don't mind telling you some of the ways I saw there is no self, it would be better for you to read "Gateless Gate Crashers" or "Liberation Unleashed," books available on the "Books" link on this page. That will give you a broad spectrum of how people here have seen.

We don't do a lot of "general discussion of topics" during this thread. Mostly, I will give you exercises and we will go straight to practices to see no self. We will mostly talk about the exercises and your experience and understanding of them. We're after something more direct than discussion can give.

Let me know if you would like to begin and I will send you some guidelines and information to get started.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Allybally
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Re: Newbie

Postby Allybally » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:31 am

Hi Stacy,

Thanks for offering to help and your replies. My name is Alan so you can call me that. Im ready when you are!

Alan

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Anastacia42
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Re: Newbie

Postby Anastacia42 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:27 pm

Good morning, Alan!

You're welcome. So, here are some general things to take care of to get started:

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no "self" to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration. (It is fine to read the Books, "Gateless Gatecrashers," "Liberation Unleashed," here on this site.)

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text (although sometimes I forget to make everything blue, so please just answer all questions.) Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Warmly,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Allybally
Posts: 51
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Re: Newbie

Postby Allybally » Thu Aug 23, 2018 9:27 pm

Hi Stacy,

ok I have read the parts you have directed me too. Am trying to figure out the quoting function so hopefully this works. Just before we begin I'd like to say that I feel I have went some way down this route. I know conceptually there is no self and I have to some extent felt this via thinking and a bit of meditation but I am really unsure how far along I am, how much further there is to go etc. and how my experience compares to others. I have went through quite a lot of change in the last year so I could you maybe help me with a bit more guidance as to these questions? Im finding it a bit tricky as I feel a lot has changed already but I'm not sure where I am at with it so a bit unsure how to answer the questions. Hope that makes sense.
How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?
Thanks,
Alan

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Anastacia42
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Re: Newbie

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:21 am

Hi Alan,

Yes, many people who arrive here have at least an intellectual understanding, and sometimes more, of no self.

The questions are to be taken at face value. When you see that there is no self...

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Just answer them as they are. Nothing tricky. It's pretty simple.

Warmly,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Allybally
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Allybally » Fri Aug 24, 2018 12:10 pm

ok, thanks.
How will life change?
I think there will be some sort of feeling of emptiness as you are so attached to things, possessions and the narrative that you have about yourself. But I think this will be accompanied by a sense of peace and also more connection with the world and your surroundings.
How will you change?
I think I will become more at ease with things, less concerned about smaller matters and be less self conscious (bad wording!) and care less what people think of me and more at peace
What will be different?
I guess I will experience things more directly, live in the moment more and have less attachment to things
What is missing?
After I don't think anything will be missing, I think its only my self telling me that I need this or that to be more fulfilled when I really am complete.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Newbie

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 1:39 pm

Thank you, Alan.

There are usually stories that everything will be blissful and perfect, and I know you've read our disclaimer pointing out that this is not the case, however, these illusions are tenacious. We want to be aware of them

Now what comes up when it is read that there is no self, never has been, never will be in any form whatsoever, that it is all a made-up story?

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Allybally
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Allybally » Fri Aug 24, 2018 2:21 pm

Now what comes up when it is read that there is no self, never has been, never will be in any form whatsoever, that it is all a made-up story?
I believe that to be true conceptually, but I would like to be able to experience it myself to be convinced in other words

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Anastacia42
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Re: Newbie

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 7:31 pm

Thank you, good.

We have checked for expectations and we have checked for fears - both of which can get in the way of actually SEEING. They may come up later, and if so, we will address them then.

So first to be clear on what I mean when I say look or often LOOK.

If I ask you what color your socks are, you can do one of two things.

1. You can think about it and remember that you put the green ones on this morning and tell me that they're green. That is not Actual Experience.

2. Or you can take a look at your socks and actually see them and see that they're green and tell me that they're green. The second way is what we want you to do when we ask you to look or LOOK at something in an exercise.



Let me know if that's clear and we'll move on.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Allybally
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Allybally » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:21 pm

If I ask you what color your socks are, you can do one of two things.

1. You can think about it and remember that you put the green ones on this morning and tell me that they're green. That is not Actual Experience.

2. Or you can take a look at your socks and actually see them and see that they're green and tell me that they're green. The second way is what we want you to do when we ask you to look or LOOK at something in an exercise.
Yes thats clear, only direct experience not what I think is there.

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Anastacia42
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Re: Newbie

Postby Anastacia42 » Fri Aug 24, 2018 8:55 pm

Hi Alan,

Very good. Let's apply that to this exercise:

I would like you to try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought. Each of these is Actual (or Direct) Experience.

So, for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply = image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how it goes.


The point is to allow this to be a meditation on Direct Experience. It is the doing of it that matters.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Allybally
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Allybally » Sun Aug 26, 2018 10:16 am

I would like you to try this as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought. Each of these is Actual (or Direct) Experience.

So, for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply = image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all actual/direct experience) and report back how it goes.
Hi Stacy,
I tried this quite a bit yesterday and mainly with sight. It seemed like I was cutting out the middle man, so instead of interpreting everything I saw in using my mind I was just seeing the individual properties. I will try this more today with sound. Though I am finding it tough to do the same thing with thoughts.

Thanks,
Alan

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Anastacia42
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Re: Newbie

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Aug 26, 2018 8:06 pm

Hi Alan,

It seemed like I was cutting out the middle man, so instead of interpreting everything I saw in using my mind I was just seeing the individual properties. I will try this more today with sound. Though I am finding it tough to do the same thing with thoughts.
Well, I suppose it's good that you tried it, but I can't tell what you did.

You need to use every sense plus thoughts on each subject.

With thoughts, the key is that all that is real and doesn't go away when you look is thoughts arising. The content means nothing. It is a completely made-up story. Can you see that?

Please follow the format of the exercise above.

Reply with six or seven lists like the one above.

That way I will have something to go on to give you feedback and to see if you're doing what was requested. Without that, I have no idea what happened.

Thank you!
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Allybally
Posts: 51
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:42 am

Re: Newbie

Postby Allybally » Sun Aug 26, 2018 9:17 pm

Hi Stacy.

Im not exactly sure what im supposed to be doing. I need to describe in writing how i directly experience a number of activities throughout the day? Broken down into individual senses?

Thanks,
Alan


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