no self

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:18 pm

Thank you very much for both of your posts Jadzia. I have a very busy day tomorrow so won't get around to addressing them until Wednesday.
Best & Love,
Paul

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:48 am

Hi Jadzia,
I am experiencing this as a huge chore at the moment. I have a lot going on in my life.
It seems unlikely that I'll be able to do it today.
What is the best way to proceed? I might be able to get round to it tomorrow but it is more likely to be Saturday.
Best & Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Wed Jun 20, 2018 7:48 am

Paul, this investigation needs time and comittment. When you find you are out of time right now - let's restart when you have more time at your hand.
OK? So no stress - just write when you want to go on.

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:21 am

Hi Jadzia,
I just went to the bottom of our garden and sat down.
I felt the hardness of the bench on my bum. I heard the wind and felt it warm on my face. I saw the green leaves and grass being moved by the wind. I saw the wide blue sky over the valley. I heard the birds singing. I felt a little cold. And tired.
I heard movement in the valley below.
And then, after a period of time, I experienced a vague sense of something else - another force. It excited me. It was kind of like a wall. But also not a wall - a very large opening - huge - as big as the sky. I got a bit scared.
The question - 'What is making all of this happen?' came into my mind.
Then I came back to the house to write this to you.
Best & Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Wed Jun 20, 2018 8:58 am

All what our questions/pointers do is to help you to shake loose, open up and as you’ve seen sometimes just a little moment is needed. A strong will and dedication to rid oneself of beliefs which cloud that what really is, is a good thing to have for this investigation, too.
So with all the questions following don’t let the amount overwhelm you – those I want you to answer I will turn blue, the rest of them are just to get you thinking aka let you see what you assume to know in a new light, ok?

Lets have a look together at what you experienced.
I felt the hardness of the bench on my bum
.
What can be felt? The bench, the bum? Or is it just a physical sensation – there is something experienced.
Have a look – does this sensation come named, or is there a thought added “Ah, bum on bench” labelling the sensation?
I heard the wind and felt it warm on my face.
Noise of the wind = hearing
Warm on my face = physical sensation
And as you’ve already seen above:
Noise of the wind = hearing + thought (content: this is wind/label)
Warm on my face = physical sensation + thought (content: warm/label and my face/label)
Is in the hearing the what is heard inherent / included? Or is it just a noise heard which is labeled by thought?

Now in a playful fashion have a look at the other things you wrote and allow yourself to see what is the real experience – what can really be experienced in this moment and what is ‘added’ by thought?
So with little time at your hands you can now and then do this for some minutes – break down the actual experience in what is directly experienced and what is thought.
This is working in this investigation. Gentle, repetative and looking, real looking in difference to thinking ABOUT.
And then, after a period of time, I experienced a vague sense of something else - another force. It excited me. It was kind of like a wall. But also not a wall - a very large opening - huge - as big as the sky. I got a bit scared.
The question - 'What is making all of this happen?' came into my mind.
Remember that what will show in openings is that what is real – it can be a bit scary at first – but it is nothing really new because it never was different.
I experienced a vague sense of something else - another force.
Was in this experience something else – another force or was this just an experience and thought ‘added’ “this is something else, apart from what I am”?
Is there ever anything apart or separate?

Take your time with answering these questions. Take them in, give them space and allow an answer to come out in its’ own time. We are in no hurry here. That what really is, is always here and it was never any different – just remembering is needed.

Love
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Thu Jun 21, 2018 3:06 pm

Hi Jadzia,
Was in this experience something else – another force or was this just an experience and thought ‘added’ “this is something else, apart from what I am”?
Is there ever anything apart or separate?
Well, I believe (think) that there isn't anything apart or separate. Labels produced by thought and language have the effect of separating out. But this is the first time I have actually experienced something that supports that belief/thought. This was both extremely surprising and very welcome. I want more.

Thank you Jadzia.

Best & Love,
Paul

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:09 pm

Following on...
Was in this experience something else – another force or was this just an experience and thought ‘added’ “this is something else, apart from what I am”?
So, I guess it wasn't 'another force'. But because I have never experienced it before (or can't remember it if I did), it is hard for me to refer to it as 'just an experience'...

Best & Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:28 pm

Well, I believe (think) that there isn't anything apart or separate.
Believing is an effort, isn’t it?
Is believing/thinking enough for you? Or do you want to know?
This investigation is for looking and experiencing, trying things and finding a new knowing.
It is all about you making your own experiences.
Labels produced by thought and language have the effect of separating out.
Beautiful, yes.
Did you observe it and found it to be true? Is this part of your experience? Or is this thinking and believing?
This was both extremely surprising and very welcome. I want more.
“Carrots for the donkey”…. Donkey love carrots, once they had one they want more and are ready to work for them.
So you got a carrot and you liked it. Well, let this experience go now. No clinging, no nothing.
What makes this experience more special then let’s say watching a sunrise?
Is there really a difference in this two experiences?
Or is it a thought “Oh, this is a special experience”, doing the thought separation thing?


Love
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:48 pm

Is believing/thinking enough for you? Or do you want to know?
This investigation is for looking and experiencing, trying things and finding a new knowing.
It is all about you making your own experiences.
I want to know - from my own experience.
Labels produced by thought and language have the effect of separating out.

Beautiful, yes.
Did you observe it and found it to be true? Is this part of your experience? Or is this thinking and believing?
I discovered it by thinking and believing but have observed it in the world of 'autism' - I have seen that people given labels in this field are not separate from others.
This was both extremely surprising and very welcome. I want more.

“Carrots for the donkey”…. Donkey love carrots, once they had one they want more and are ready to work for them.
So you got a carrot and you liked it. Well, let this experience go now. No clinging, no nothing.
What makes this experience more special then let’s say watching a sunrise?
Is there really a difference in this two experiences?
Or is it a thought “Oh, this is a special experience”, doing the thought separation thing?
Well, I also love donkeys! And see them as not separate from humans. But I think you are right. No clinging. Move on.
The experience yesterday felt different because I 'saw' something that seemed new to me. But then watching my first sunrise perhaps felt like that. It is thought that makes something 'special' and yes, perhaps separating it.

Best & Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Thu Jun 21, 2018 6:57 pm

I discovered it by thinking and believing but have observed it in the world of 'autism' - I have seen that people given labels in this field are not separate from others.
So now drop thinking about and any beliefs for the next time.
Just watch your thoughts, observe them, this is needed to get to know the nature of thought, to learn how thought creates the story of Paul – you can learn it all first hand.

Back to direct experience:
Can you see that each raw experience is labeled by thought?
Watch it, it happens each and every momen.
Can you see a "chair" or do you see colour and via thought the label “chair” is added?
Go on look around you and check with other things.
When you close your eyes and hear a noise – how is it known what or who makes the noise?

Report what you find.

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:42 am

Can you see that each raw experience is labeled by thought?
I haven't yet seen it fully.
Can you see a "chair" or do you see colour and via thought the label “chair” is added?
Go on look around you and check with other things.
Yes, I can observe the process happening. I looked at a table and chairs and did exactly that - labelled them. When I looked at the TV which was off, I didn't think of the word TV though. Instead I thought of what it does. Sometimes it doesn't happen though. When I just looked out of my window I didn't label the trees as trees. Or other things around them. I experienced the view.
When you close your eyes and hear a noise – how is it known what or who makes the noise?
I did close my eyes and heard the dishwasher in the kitchen. I know it from memory - because I have heard the sound of the dishwasher before.

Best & Love,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:16 pm

Yes, you can observe a thought, like “The chair needs to be wiped.” or “The TV is off.” or “The noise is the noise of the dishwasher” – I guess we agree that these are all thoughts, appearing and disappearing, right?
Thoughts can be called memory, daydream, advice, label, comment ect., all of them can be noticed.

But where is the thinker? How can a thinker be noticed? By what sense?
If you use direct looking and look right now, can you find a thinker of thoughts?
If yes, please explain where.

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:48 am

Hi Jadzia,
But where is the thinker? How can a thinker be noticed? By what sense?
If you use direct looking and look right now, can you find a thinker of thoughts?
If yes, please explain where.
No.

Best,
Paul

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Jadzia
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Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:33 pm

How does it feel - no thinker?

If there is no thinker found - can there be an 'I' who does the thinking?
There can be a thought: "I think the thoughts", but is there an 'I' doing the thinking?
Could it be that thoughts just happen?

Love,
Jadzia

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PauliePaul
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Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:57 am

How does it feel - no thinker?
It feels intriguing.
If there is no thinker found - can there be an 'I' who does the thinking?
There can be a thought: "I think the thoughts", but is there an 'I' doing the thinking?
Could it be that thoughts just happen?
It could be. But the thoughts that just happen have a content that relates to a person's life. So, don't seem random.


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