no self

This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:26 pm

Did you ever ask him directly?
No.
Hm, we always love sharing the good stuff and sometimes forget about the other things, especially after a longer time.
I thought that some of my everyday anxieties might be eased. And they are. It is just that they haven't disappeared - yet!
The only answer that I can find to your last question is that it would be (radically) different.
Ah, a magic wand and all makes poof!
What is sometimes overlooked is, this self thingy is the first step, the very beginning. The unraveling encompasses much more than meets the eye.
It is beautiful that the anxieties are eased and there is still work one can do on this kind of emotions, but this is for Aftercare or Further Investigation later on.

For the moment these are good questions to look for answers:
What further insights are happening?
What changes?
What stays the same?
How does it feel to have no story?


Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
PauliePaul
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Mon Aug 13, 2018 6:40 pm

What is sometimes overlooked is, this self thingy is the first step, the very beginning. The unraveling encompasses much more than meets the eye.
I see it as the first step and also I am looking forward to the further unraveling.
It is beautiful that the anxieties are eased and there is still work one can do on this kind of emotions, but this is for Aftercare or Further Investigation later on.
OK.
What further insights are happening?
I can see something of the nature of people's struggles more clearly.
What changes?
I am more patient as regards communication with people and offering support.
What stays the same?
A pervasive sadness, anxieties about my parent's dying, not being to help them more as regards their experience of being old, ongoing relationship issues with my partner.
How does it feel to have no story?
Liberating.

Love,
Paul

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:13 am

Go on observing the next days and have the questions on the backburner.

Does a sensation know anything of the label 'anxiety' or can a sensation be 'anxious'?
Can a thought feel 'anxiety' or be 'anxiety'?
Can a colour feel 'anxiety' or be 'anxiety'?

Look as long as you get down to this:
Anxiety = physical sensation + thought (label) + colour/form (labeled Paulie)

Then settle for the sensation and sit with it, caring and allowing. When it stays look behind it, see what is there.
Then look behind that and so on until there is pure sensation left. This will pass.

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
PauliePaul
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:48 pm

Hi Jadzia,
Well, you were certainly right to focus upon my 'anxiety'. It was definitely getting in the way of me seeing no self.
Does a sensation know anything of the label 'anxiety' or can a sensation be 'anxious'?
No.
Can a thought feel 'anxiety' or be 'anxiety'?
No, but thought can provide a label which can be anxiety-provoking.
Can a colour feel 'anxiety' or be 'anxiety'?
No.
Look as long as you get down to this:
Anxiety = physical sensation + thought (label) + colour/form (labeled Paulie)
Then settle for the sensation and sit with it, caring and allowing. When it stays look behind it, see what is there.
Then look behind that and so on until there is pure sensation left. This will pass.
I did this. My anxiety comes during the night and I very successfully did as you suggested with wonderful results. The sensation (anxiety) was in the bottom of my stomach - but the feeling of warmth, pleasure and well being filled the whole of the inside of my torso. I did it again last night. The first night it came very quickly. Last night I was trying very hard - and then it came when I stopped trying! I am so pleased about this process - thank you!

Over the last year or so, a similar thing has happened about three times - from deep anxiety to a strong sense of well-being- but each time with no effort. It just happened. The last time was three nights ago. So, I have now experienced this feeling for three nights in a row.

I like the process of focusing upon the pure sensation and then looking behind it. I start to feel good straight away. Wow!

Love,
Paul

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Fri Aug 17, 2018 1:59 pm

How lovely to read this.
One of the merits of seeing self for what it is, is that it is so much easier to deal with emotions.
No one there to whom they ‘happen’. Labels can vary but a sensation is just a sensation, nothing else, no extras attached.
No, but thought can provide a label which can be anxiety-provoking.
It most certainly can seem as if a label ‘provokes’ something, but can a label do something? A thought? ;-)
For there to be a triggering/provoking wouldn’t a mechanism be needed which does the triggering?
Next time it seems like a thought triggers a reaction have a close look and see if or if not you find something in AE which does this.
Last night I was trying very hard - and then it came when I stopped trying!
Isn’t it just a thought “I really have to try now?” – notice it, smile and go on.
I start to feel good straight away.
Since the ‘I’ is fictive – what exactly happens? Look closely next time you do it and find out.

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
PauliePaul
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Sat Aug 18, 2018 7:39 pm

Glad that you enjoyed my last post.
It most certainly can seem as if a label ‘provokes’ something, but can a label do something? A thought? ;-)
For there to be a triggering/provoking wouldn’t a mechanism be needed which does the triggering?
Yes, it 'seems' that a particular label might trigger an emotion but, as you point out, it can't.
Next time it seems like a thought triggers a reaction have a close look and see if or if not you find something in AE which does this.
OK.
Last night I was trying very hard - and then it came when I stopped trying!
Isn’t it just a thought “I really have to try now?” – notice it, smile and go on.
Yes. The smiling and chuckling helps a lot!
I start to feel good straight away.
Since the ‘I’ is fictive – what exactly happens? Look closely next time you do it and find out.
Did it again last night. A warmth spreads from the place where the 'anxiety' sensation was experienced and fills the entire inner space of my torso. And it stays there.

I am away from tomorrow until Tuesday with, I am guessing, limited internet access.

Love,
Paul

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:12 pm

All sounds good. :-)

Look at these questions again and look what you would add since the last time or what did change.
What further insights are happening?
What changes?
What stays the same?
How does it feel to have no story?

Answer whenever you are ready to and have enough time and internet.

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:59 am

Hi Paulie,

I reread the last posts and please have a closer look at two things. Do them when you have a bit more time.
Yes, it 'seems' that a particular label might trigger an emotion but, as you point out, it can't.
Don’t believe a word I write…. Look really close again, here is an exercise for you:

1. Put aside 10-15 minutes and sit quietly with your eyes closed.
2. Think of a story that brings up a sensation, one that you can feel in the body but not too intense that it overwhelms you.
3. Then with eyes still closed, I want you to LOOK very very carefully to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation.
4. If the sensation starts to dissipate/weaken, then bring the story to mind again and until the sensation is felt, then continue looking to see if you can see/find a link. You are looking for an actual link that connects the thought/story with the sensation.
5. If you find yourself following thought instead of looking carefully for the link, just bring your attention gently back to the sensation and continue looking.

Do this exercise at least 3-4 times throughout your day, making sure to look very carefully.
Don’t go for what thoughts tell but only for your direct experience of it.

Did it again last night. A warmth spreads from the place where the 'anxiety' sensation was experienced and fills the entire inner space of my torso. And it stays there.
Sometimes an expectation is formed to what is supposed to happen, especially if there is a good feeling involved. The good feeling can either be the end point of the investigation but if it repeats in exactly the same way again and again it can be a lovely reminder of there being a resistance to look deeper. So find out for yourself what it is.

Next time ‘anxiety’ shows up have a close look and while doing it, really allow yourself to look deeper and deeper.
When the wonderful warmth spread give thanks for it and have a look:
Is there is a controller, doer or decider who/which decides what is happening?
Is there something behind the warmth which would like to be looked at?

Report back what you find.

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
PauliePaul
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:43 pm

Hi Jadzia,
Do you want me to prioritize the most recent post you sent over the one you sent before?
Love,
Paul

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Tue Aug 21, 2018 7:58 pm

Thanks for the question, Paul. Yes, please.

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:45 pm

How is it working for you? Any questions?

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
PauliePaul
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Thu Aug 23, 2018 8:15 pm

Hi Jadzia,
Going to do it on Saturday when I have the time.
It all looks good to me.
Best & Live,
Paul

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Fri Aug 24, 2018 4:40 am

Thanks.
Looking forward to what you'll write. :-)

Love,
Jadzia

User avatar
PauliePaul
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:58 pm

Re: no self

Postby PauliePaul » Sat Aug 25, 2018 5:20 pm

Hi Jadzia,
Put aside 10-15 minutes and sit quietly with your eyes closed.
2. Think of a story that brings up a sensation, one that you can feel in the body but not too intense that it overwhelms you.
3. Then with eyes still closed, I want you to LOOK very very carefully to see if you can find/see an actual link between the thought and the sensation.
4. If the sensation starts to dissipate/weaken, then bring the story to mind again and until the sensation is felt, then continue looking to see if you can see/find a link. You are looking for an actual link that connects the thought/story with the sensation.
5. If you find yourself following thought instead of looking carefully for the link, just bring your attention gently back to the sensation and continue looking.
Do this exercise at least 3-4 times throughout your day, making sure to look very carefully.
Don’t go for what thoughts tell but only for your direct experience of it.
Spent a good amount of time on this today. I sat very quietly and thought of life in the backyard of our house when I was a child – and I focused upon bonfire night and my dad. A sensation came very soon – in a different place this time –at the bottom of my rib cage in the middle and a different kind of sensation – slightly sharper. I sat focusing upon this sensation and I could find no way back – link – to the thought/story. I looked and looked but there was no link. The sensation stayed there in the same place but it was isolated from any thoughts.
I repeated this process three times during today. The first two times I thought of the backyard scenario and the same thing happened. The third time I thought of bath time when I was a child. The sensation occurred lower – at the top of my stomach. But the attempt to then link it to a thought was the same. The sensation felt isolated and certainly not linked to any thoughts in any way.
Next time ‘anxiety’ shows up have a close look and while doing it, really allow yourself to look deeper and deeper.
When the wonderful warmth spread give thanks for it and have a look:
Is there is a controller, doer or decider who/which decides what is happening?
Is there something behind the warmth which would like to be looked at?
I have begun to try to do this. It is always at night when I am trying to get back to sleep. But, because my sleep is so precarious and the ‘anxiety’ still ‘lurking’ I haven’t managed to go very deep yet. Once I have achieved some ‘satisfactory’ state (the warm feeling spreading) I have allowed myself to go to sleep. But, I will persist with this when it appears to be a bit easier to do it…

Love,
Paul

User avatar
Jadzia
Posts: 1401
Joined: Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:04 pm

Re: no self

Postby Jadzia » Sat Aug 25, 2018 6:32 pm

Good job, Paul.

Isn’t it interesting, there is no link at all. Sensation happens, thinking happens. The only link there is, is the one thought ‘talks’ about.
This is a good exercise when a strong ‘reaction’ on something arises. Then it is sitting quietly and allowing to feel the sensation and the thoughts fully at the same time checking if there is a link. This is how you dissolve emotional ‘habits’.

Maybe you like to try the Deep Looking exercise during day time whenever you feel ready to do it or there is a thought: this is a stronger emotion now.
It can be like peeling an onion, layer for layer until nothing is left.

It might be a good idea to go through the set of questions one by one we usually ask at the end. They are good to check if we missed something. So if needed we can take time to discuss each one.
Are you ready for this?

Love,
Jadzia


Return to “ARCHIVES”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest