End of the stories

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Sun Mar 18, 2018 2:11 pm

Hmm, I couldn’t find only one answer to this exercise...

When I sit down, I can feel my body and it’s boundaries (muscles, skin) against the chair. After a while, it’s not that obvious anymore because I don’t get so intense sensation all the time (have to move my body to feel it again), and then I feel my body becomes like a part of the chair, I’m something more than this body... But I would say that this is more like eating an apple - experience because it’s something I can really feel and sense.

But in everyday life I usually think (yes, think so it’s not the reality) that this I/self is my body, the whole body of mine, including mind, thoughts, feelings, sensations etc. And this is more like imagining an apple - experience, I just think that way but can’t prove it to be that way.

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Anastacia42
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 4:39 pm

Thank you. Good. Let's keep exploring this one.

Stay with this exercise a while.

Focus only on direct experience.

What is felt? What is experienced?

Sitting still or moving - from your direct experience, where do you end & the chair begin?

Much love,
Stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:30 pm

Stacy, I don’t really understand what’s happening. I’ve been exploring this direct experience during the day and it’s so unbelievable. For example when I sit on a wooden chair, I feel it’s surface against my butt and back but it’s not clear at all, where I end and the chair begins. When I concentrate on this experience, me and the chair are kind of the same thing — I can’t make any difference between us two, there’s no boundaries. Same thing if I listen to some sound - I become part of that sound, it’s not apart from me. If i look at something - I become part of what I see etc. Everything I experience becomes part of me. How amazing to feel it that way!

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Anastacia42
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Anastacia42 » Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:41 pm

Yes, it is amazing!

Stay with it. Do you find any sense of self or I or me in this happening? Or is it just happening?

Describe what that is.

Much love,
Stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:01 am

It’s just happening, ”I” comes in later when I start thinking and labelling this experience. It’s hard to explain, there is something, maybe it’s better to call it consciousness/life itself that experiences itself through body sensations.

I find it easier to just experience life as it is and become part of it by hearing, touching, smelling and tasting. Seeing is more problematic — on one way I can experience that what I look and see, becomes part of me/I become part of it, it’s one experience without me looking and that object/person to be looked. On the other hand everything seems to be apart from me, different forms, objects, other people etc. because thoughts pop in all the time and start to analyze what I see. So when I’m looking at something it’s not so easy to get this ”no self” experience...

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Anastacia42
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 1:55 pm

Thank you. Good. Let's find out if seeing is amazing, too.

Continue to practice with seeing & all the other senses.

Try this, look at your hand. Put it on a table in front of you. Where does hand stop & table begin?

Notice how looking is like all the other senses.

Don't worry. You won't disappear. It has always been this way. Now you begin to really see.

Describe what you see thoroughly, explain it to me so I know what you see.

Much love!
Stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:09 pm

Thank you Stacy for your help! I find sense of sight tricky... I tried it many times and have to tell you that when I put hand on the table, I see my hand and the table - it is different forms, colours, marerials- so it’s easy to see where the hand ends and the table begins... But if I close my eyes, I feel my hand and the table are connected, they feel like one, no clear boundaries. And when I open my eyes, there is the hand and the table again, two separate objects... But if I look at the flower on the table, it’s first only seeing, this whole image I have in the field of view before I start telling myself, how beautiful the flower is, what other objects are on the table...

This is difficult, how could I see differently? If you place your hand on the table, what do you see? Sorry for the question, I want to understand this. And why do I experience seeing differently than hearing - when I listen to something I get quite easily the sensation of just being and listening, like I’m that sound and it’s me, I feel it also in my body and can just listen, without thoughts...

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Anastacia42
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Anastacia42 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:42 pm

Good morning/evening!

Thank you - you're practicing and that is what matters. It has only been an hour since that exercise was suggested. Maybe spend 10 minutes all at once looking at your hand. It won't help if I say what I see. This is your experience.

Focus on the edges, just like you did with butt on chair and have been doing with sound and taste and smell.

Look at it. Soften your vision. Relax. You do not need to "make" anything happen. It is already there.

Try looking at the hand this way:

1. Close the eyes and hold up one hand. Pay attention only to the felt sensations ‘of the hand’.
2. Open the eyes, and now observe the hand by looking only.
3. While looking at the hand, pay attention to the felt sensations.

Repeat 1 to 3 as many times as needed and investigate…

Normally we believe that the sensation is coming from the sight, the ‘object’ seen (hand).

But actually, is there any link between the sensation and the sight, meaning that the sensation is ‘coming from’ the sight (labelled as hand) or only thoughts and mental constructs link them?

Can you see that both the ‘visual sight’ and the sensation appear simultaneously but ‘separately’, meaning that none of them is coming from the other or contained by the other?

So they just appear equally, ‘beside’ each other without any hierarchy or link between them?

Take your time. If it becomes a strain or stressful. Stop and take a break.

A sense of relaxation is essential. Relax and allow seeing to come to you. Describe it to me in detail, so that I can understand what you see & experience.

Much love,
Stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Tue Mar 20, 2018 6:07 am

Good morning Stacy,

I have the strongest feeling in hands when I close my eyes and just feel them. It’s tingling/soft sensation without clear boundaries. Whit eyes open I get the same sensation but then I can see the form of my hand, it’s shape. Of I look at my hand on the table for a longer time, the sight becomes blurry and then it’s not so easy to see, where ny hand ens and the table begins.

This is my current experience of sensory perceptions:
What ever I concentrate on sensing, hearing, smellling, tasting and also seeing (still a bit harder but I get the point here too) there is first just pure sensation, being here and now and then the thoughts come in to explain my perceptions. But there’s no me/self in this happening, it’s something more, that becomes one with everything that can be perceived with this body.

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Anastacia42
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Good morning/afternoon, Sinnu!
there’s no me/self in this happening, it’s something more, that becomes one with everything that can be perceived with this body.
Yes. No self. Can you see that there is no self in this and that there has never been? That it is a story that thoughts make up after whatever is happening?

Let's take a look at choice & control.

Get two foods you like - one that is a "bad" food like a piece of chocolate and one a "good food" like a piece of apple.

Thoughts might come up whilst looking at them saying stuff about eating one or the other.

Eventually one of them will get eaten first.

Look carefully for any evidence in experience that those thoughts controlled the behavior, rather than just guessing and commenting what might happen.

Describe what happened.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:53 pm

Good evening Stacy,

I had this situation today with water & coffee. I love coffee (as many Finns do, we drink more coffee here than any other country :D ) and drink it too much per day.

So when I today again had a pause at work in the afternoon, I went to kitchen and took a cup. I saw there was some new, fresh coffee in the pot and had a quick conversation in my head, if I choose coffee or water this time. I wanted to drink coffee again but had already little overdose of it and bad feeling in my stomach. I was going to pick up the coffeepot but suddenly turned on the tap and drank water instead. And to be honest, I didn’t make a choice, only had this self-talk before and after and then the decision just came to me in the middle of everything. Without me making it, it just happened.

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Anastacia42
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:01 pm

Yes, that's what is experienced. It just happens. Amazing, as you said before.

Can you say more about how it feels to notice no-self & no control or decision-making? Is anything different?

I would like to be sure I understand very clearly how this is for you.

Much love,
Stacy
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:03 pm

It feels like life just happens and takes care of everything. There’s no need to worry, we are part of life here and can just follow the flow of life and trust that.

I don’t feel I should do something to improve myself (as I felt before, I thought there’s something wrong with me that needs to be fixed to feel peace), I’m clearly not something that could be described, some personality with different qualities. I understand now, how we can be so different in different situations - we are not what we think we are, we all have so many different characters and not me/self so we can be anything if we don’t put ourselves in a narrow ” I’m like this and that” state. ”I” is just one big learned concept, alive only by thoughts, idea or dream (or even nightmare) that we can live without (and have lived, as a baby).

I will continue using I-word because it’s practical in language. But can’t help this funny feeling I get every now and then, because almost all people are thinking they have ”self” and have some personal power in this world. That’s a big lie everybody believes in. I can see it under surface and get all the time new perceptions about it in my life. So interesting and eye-opening!

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Anastacia42
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Anastacia42 » Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:24 pm

Thank you, Sinnu.
But there’s no me/self in this happening, it’s something more, that becomes one with everything that can be perceived with this body.
What is the "something?"

Also, what would your replies be if you refrain from using "I?" How could you write so that it is closer to your actual experience? What would that sound (read) like?

Please write in some way that is closer. See how that feels to do that.

You're doing great.

Much love,
~ Stacy

"Not to know there is an alternative to being lost
in thought is to be a kind of prisoner."

~ Sam Harris

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Sinnu
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Re: End of the stories

Postby Sinnu » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:06 pm

Hi Stacy,

I have been busy and didn’t have time to write here yesterday.

I don’t know what this consciousness behind everything is... Don’t think anyone knows, it just is, maybe we don’t need to name or try to understand it, because it just always is, no matter what we think or believe... Maybe it’s pure experiencing of life, moment by moment. The more I think about it the less I can say about it. I only know that this moment here exists as it is and takes care of itself - I can play this role of Sinnu, and worry about this and that, try to take care of things and live my life as I want but behind all there’s only life happening and there’s nothing to be done for it.

It’s difficult to write without using ’I’, especially in foreign language that makes communication challenging.
And it also sounds artificial, because it’s about words that people made up - it’s the main reason, that makes this life so complicated and full of misunderstandings so using some other words would in the end be the same, so far from the reality, real happenings.


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