Of you are ready, come in..

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Ananda
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Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:59 am

Hi all,

Hope I am not intruding into the discussion. I was going to write down a topic under the title "I am ready" plus I wanted to speak with you Ilona in precise. So I guess this is enough reason for me to post here.

My name is Tony, I am from Beirut, Lebanon. I'll be 28 years old this month. I've been on the path since the age of 19, wasn't always looking for the Truth until the age of 21 or so. I've had traditional and open minded teachers all along the way, with some I went through the traditional harsh guru disciple relation... I've been to India, Tiruvannamalai and met some of the sages there and have also been in the Tunisian deserts where I've sat and learned from a community of suffies and have met most of the teachers here in Lebanon and one from Damascus... I've been meditating daily for many years now and have been involved on and off with a lot of bhakti practices mainly suffi ones. I've had many peak experiences and big schisms in my awareness but I still feel the sense of me. I am or it's still here. I am really tired because of all what I've been through, searching for the Truth has been my first goal in life for quite a few years now. Following the sayings of Jesus: "Find the kingdom of God first and then of everything else you shall be filled."

I am open to this new opportunity, take my hand or slap me in the face I don't mind. I am ready to give this a shot. I mean something is definitely wrong or not working. I've pushed quite a few times beyond my limits to realize that. Would really appreciate the help.

Love,
Ananda

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Ilona
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:37 am

Hi Tony,
Welcome here.

Right.. You are looking to loose the sense of self? Hmmm
Take a look at that sense. Feel it. Is it personal? When it's labelled 'me' does it make it a me? It's just a label.
That sense is not self. It's a sense of aliveness, being (verb). Is it there if its not labeled? Is it there if there in between thoughts?

Have you ever looked at the possibility that there is no self at all, no separate entity behind the words I/ me/self?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:26 pm

Thanks for the welcome, I just stumbled into this. Sorry for my other post on the main topic. To answer your questions.

You are looking to loose the sense of self?
To be honest with you, yes I'd love nothing more than to melt and die in the beloved and disappear in him.

As for the rest of what you wrote, I must say wow it was blow. Don't know how I escaped from this inquiry. But I can't fully grasp what you said in the end.
Quote:
Have you ever looked at the possibility that there is no self at all, no separate entity behind the words I/ me/self?

This means that there's just being. But even with being or just naked awareness of being, there's still the sense of this is not it.

Again much thanks for providing this opportunity.

Much love,
Ananda

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Ilona
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 01, 2012 6:38 pm

Well sense of being ( verb) aliveness does not dissapear. Only belief in separate entity self is dropped. So life goes on as it does - as yet say, chop wood carry water. And nothing melts away other than belief is dropped.
Very simple.

Yes there is just being. Raw sensations, feeling, thoughts arise and pass away.
There is thinking and it is seen for what it is- stories. They keep being narrated.
Tell me, is there a thinker?
Is there a doer?
How does it work?



Ps, I removed your posts as they were all over the place. This forum is focused one on one work. Please post only in this thread unroll you through.
You may read the rules.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Ananda
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Thu Mar 01, 2012 7:55 pm

Kind of saw that coming. I don't know why but I have this desire for completely disappearing. Maybe this will happen in death who knows. For now let's deal with what we have in our hands.

Tell me, is there a thinker?
No, there is thinking flowing.

Is there a doer?
Nope, just doing.

How does it work?
It just happens with what I label as "me" getting lost in the whole thing then waking up afterwards just being welcoming awareness on and off...

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Ilona
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:09 pm

what is that i that you refer to?
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Ananda
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Thu Mar 01, 2012 9:59 pm

I really don't know.

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Ilona
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ilona » Thu Mar 01, 2012 10:58 pm

ok, take a look and tell what feels true. dig a little.
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:16 pm

There is no one when inquiring and looking inside or outside. But this is just intellectual understanding, I realize now that I or me is a label. But still this doesn't feel like this is it. There's only action or being (whatever is happening) but again it still doesn't feel like this is it. Now it's just "don't know" without the I. But there's this "I" like ouch what the hell is going on.

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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Fri Mar 02, 2012 8:06 am

Ok, looking is still going on and well there's just looking or doing.. Just being. It's a relief and a good thing but this looking experience needs to be more stable and an ongoing experience. Is this the right way to go through this?

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Ilona
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ilona » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:03 am

Is there a doer/ thinker when not inquiring?
Was there ever?

Of course it's the right way forward. It's all happening by itself, just notice it. Can 'I' wake up? Can a label do anything?

How do you expect seeing through illusion would feel? Yare you looking for big bang? Some peek experience? Angel choir singing songs?
None of that happens. The shift is so subtle, that you may even not notice when it happens. So relax about it and don't look for it. Look at what is obvious. Right here right now. :)

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Ananda
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Fri Mar 02, 2012 5:14 pm

Is there a doer/ thinker when not inquiring?
Was there ever?
Nope for both.

Can 'I' wake up? Can a label do anything?
Wow, surely not :D

How do you expect seeing through illusion would feel? Yare you looking for big bang? Some peek experience? Angel choir singing songs?
Kind of experienced all of the above mentioned in the past and thought that enlightenment would be an ongoing state immersed with bliss, light and those things. Plus I've met some mystics sufi and hindu who have showed signs of the such... But I realize now that all of this is just thought. "I don't exist, there's just existing" the shift has happened... As you said in one of your posts, once we know that Santa clause isn't real we can't say he's real anymore. The same goes for the self. The precise moment when the shift happened is when you told me up there that me is a label.

My cousin who works with me is another seeker of truth as well. When I met him today I had to tell him about this no self, I was in a moment where it was so beautiful and real and liberating that he should know about it. So the talk of no self kind of happened. He confronted me at first and we kind of went into an argument but I wasn't there and I was this calm and ongoing person with talk of no self just coming out. He went away to the second room at the store where we work without being convinced then after ten minutes or so. He suddenly told me what the hell. I understand what you said. And the shift happened to him also.

We are very grateful for your help dear Ilona <3

Much love to you and to all the gatelessgate family :-)

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Ilona
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ilona » Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:38 pm

Oh wow.
Nice one. Yes me is just a label and it always was just that. What a funny missunderstanding that drove humans into this whole new level of suffering..

I'm delighted to hear that it's been seen. And your cousin too! That is some fantastic unfoldment.

Can you now answer the five questions with full honesty as you see. Please write a lot.
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever? 

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.

3) How does it feel to see this?

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion. 

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? ( you answered that already, but you may do so
With more detail :))



Thank you!! Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Ananda
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ananda » Sat Mar 03, 2012 7:15 am

Hi Ilona,
These are my answers.
1) Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
No, I am looking for a me inside this body and inside others as well. The answer is no there is not. There’s just thought. As for my life story, It’s a stream of thought in relation to the illusion of me. So nope, from a logical standpoint of observing there is no me at all.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
The illusion of a separate self is when thoughts are believed to be real and there’s a complete identification with them. As for when it starts, after reading your words and watching that Bbc video. It’s obvious now that they start near the age of two years old and that language is the most affecting factor in forming a personal identity. Kind of reminds me of the words of the lord Jesus when he said: “Unless you return as children, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.”

3) How does it feel to see this?
It feels like the end of something and the start of a new beginning. But it’s very ordinary and not a big deal but somehow it feels like it is... Everything is going just the same as before. It feels free and relaxing often times more than usual. But this realization is not here on a 24\7 basis. It’s like an on and off thing. But different than the on and off of identification with awareness that used to happen before. Where there used to be a seer, now there is only seeing. It feels most fascinating when there’s interaction with other people and things. There’s no I in me and nor is there one in them. Just thoughts happening…

4) How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion.
I would speak about thoughts and our role in controlling and generating them. I’ll ask the other person to close his eyes and see the thought process for himself. This should be enough proof for him that he can’t control his thoughts and that his decisions are based on them and that this I of his on careful discrimination is seen as none other than another thought. Thus, there’s no one who has ever been in control, life is just happening. That would lift off a lot of weight from anyone’s shoulders  I’ll add in as well some scientific talk about the work of the brain and how our decisions are taken first on the neurobiological level and how our brains always realize and analyze what has been already done. We really don’t make decisions, once we realize we did. They are already done over with.

5) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look? ( you answered that already, but you may do so
With more detail :))
I am sorry dear but there is not much to add then to what I already mentioned. That was the main shifting point. All I remember is saying wow this is mind blowing, how did I fail all this time not to inquire into this point. It was staring me in the face yet I missed it. This is all I’ve got 

Love,
Tony

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Ilona
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Re: Of you are ready, come in..

Postby Ilona » Sat Mar 03, 2012 8:08 am

So nope, from a logical standpoint of observing there is no me at all.
Are you saying that this is an intellectual understanding? Is this a logical conclusion?
Truth realized will set you free.
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