Never too late!

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Kaarin
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:34 pm

Sensations now.... I feel light, like a bagback had been taken off. Also more free than used to feel. The head is guiet, I notice thoughts but they are somehow far away, they dont bother me. I am not stucked in them.
Actually nothing bothers me now, pains, past, nothing... I feel pain and know the past with all emotions but they dont touch me like they used to. I feel free. I just am, dont create this, it happened just PUFF. (start lauhging again), and feel that it was like some KLICK, suddenly it was there. Dont ask what, it just was..this easyness.

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Kaarin
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:58 pm

Sensations now.... I feel light, like a bagback had been taken off. Also more free than used to feel. The head is guiet, I notice thoughts but they are somehow far away, they dont bother me. I am not stucked in them.
Actually nothing bothers me now, pains, past, nothing... I feel pain and know the past with all emotions but they dont touch me like they used to. I feel free. I just am, dont create this, it happened just PUFF. (start lauhging again), and feel that it was like some KLICK, suddenly it was there. Dont ask what, it just was..this easyness.

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Kaarin
Posts: 73
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2017 8:09 am

Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 2:01 pm

Yesterday's pleasure has weakened, feel a bit hangover. I guess the work starts now with even more powerfully..
Talking about stories and sensations, I realized yesterday that my mind has invent a story around some happening and makes me believe it is the truth. Because there is no me, there is now story, no truth behind the story. There are just happenings called life and I am an actor playing this role which has been given to me. And I'm sure everybody involved a happening has own opinion, own story which is different than mine.
That was a major notice for me. Quiltiness has gone, at least now I feel like that.
Today I have notice the thouhgts swarming over, like they dont want to leave me alone. I guess it belongs to the prosess, and I have start to be more awake and observe them.

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Andrei
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Andrei » Thu Sep 21, 2017 6:07 pm

Hi there.
There are some questions I asked left unanswered.
It would be great if you were to tend to them.

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Kaarin
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 7:06 pm

Ok, I'll try...tomorrow

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Kaarin
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Thu Sep 21, 2017 10:02 pm

I would like to clarify - do you mean the question about sensations and if so, do you mean sensations which are result of some happening/story? Or sensations now? Actually, is there any difference..(moan!)
Or do you mean senses like to hear, to see and do on?

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Andrei
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Andrei » Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:25 am

I can see now that its imbossible for 'me' to control the stream of thoughts. They just are there.
ALL thoughts? Or is there still doubt whether there are some you can control?

And is there "someone" who wants certain thoughts to happen or is that just another thought?

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Kaarin
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:00 pm

I notice that my mind still wants to control,like it has used to do. I can think for.example I go to store buy some bread, but if i force something against naturally flow, try to control, everything starts to go wrong. I can see it now. All just happens like it should happen. So I cannot control my thoughts, not at all.
That is a mystery for me where the thoughts come from.

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Andrei
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Andrei » Fri Sep 22, 2017 12:39 pm

but if i force something against naturally flow
Good. Let's look into the control thingie. How do you control stuff? Like what are the exact steps?

That is a mystery for me where the thoughts come from.
Does not knowing bother you?
(This is tied to control as well)

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Kaarin
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 2:19 pm

About controlling.... f.e. 'I' have decided how something should go, how something is best to do etc..then 'I' starts to fulfill the thing. I have noticed that at that moment my mind tolds me what to do, how to react. It is an old/ancient habit and I have obeyed. Even though have felt something isn't right, I haven't listen the 'inner voice'. And if I forse myself to do the thing all away, it doesn't give me pleasure. I feel that these kind of way of acting/controlling are already losing their hold in me.

You said desire of knowing is tied to control as well. I haven't thought about that way, but when I'm thinking now, can image it is.. willing to know is already far away from flowing. And when somebody is surrending and leting go, there is no place for knowing...

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Andrei
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Andrei » Fri Sep 22, 2017 4:18 pm

I' have decided how something should go, how something is best to do etc..then 'I' starts to fulfill the thing. I have noticed that at that moment my mind tolds me what to do, how to react. It is an old/ancient habit and I have obeyed. Even though have felt something isn't right, I haven't listen the 'inner voice'. And if I forse myself to do the thing all away, it doesn't give me pleasure. I feel that these kind of way of acting/controlling are already losing their hold in me.
Ok, let's give them the final blow.
So from what you're telling me the thing that thinks it's in control is a mixture of thoughts and sensations (the "inner voice"), right?
Well... the next question would be if you control them? And you already answered that.
See, when you meet a roadblock, break it into its parts in order to deal with them better ;)

If you're not completely clear about choices I have a nice exercise you can do:
Take two objects/possibilities, of which you might ordinarily choose either e.g. coffee or tea, blue pen or black pen, salt and pepper, then sit and see if you can find the choice-point where you could go either way. Describe how choosing happens.

You said desire of knowing is tied to control as well. I haven't thought about that way, but when I'm thinking now, can image it is.. willing to know is already far away from flowing. And when somebody is surrending and leting go, there is no place for knowing...
Not quite. The desire to know might be a form of control but desires in general are just that - desires.
They are tied, but I wouldn't want you to make the wrong impression like one equals the other.

And when somebody is surrending and leting go, there is no place for knowing...
Yes. Desires and control are BOTH mind. They are stories.

Here is a short exercise on desire you can do. It's not LU material. It doesn't tend to the illusion of the self so do it at your leisure if you feel it helps.
Whenever you feel a desire just look to see if you can find it's location through all the sensations appearing in your body tied to that desire. Is it anything but some random sensations you have no control over? Is there any "wanting" in direct experience?

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Kaarin
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:03 pm

Thanks for answering. I'll answer tomorrow, I am going for a one week holiday, but still continue this discussion. It starts to be more and more intersting!

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Kaarin
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:43 am

Hi Andrei,
Sorry this looooong answering, there has been many difficulties to get connection, first problems with my phone and then with password. I'm in an other country and have an old phone, but now all works :)!

It has been intetesting to notice, how my mind worked in these days, it has been very annoing not to get connection and I realize that I'm still trying to control. But I noticed also when I am able to relax and let it go, the annoing feeling disappears.

Also have been thinking about that exercise you gave me. f.e. two cups, in the other koffee and in the other tee and in that choiche point I realize what kind of thouhgts there appears...there were needs and desire then I noticed also thing which is how I SHOULD choose (beliefs and so on). When I notice these thoughts it's easier to let them go and make the choose without beliefs and HOW should I choose.

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Andrei
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Andrei » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:58 am

Sorry this looooong answering, there has been many difficulties to get connection, first problems with my phone and then with password.
No worries. Enjoy your trip.

Also have been thinking about that exercise you gave me. f.e. two cups, in the other koffee and in the other tee and in that choiche point I realize what kind of thouhgts there appears...there were needs and desire then I noticed also thing which is how I SHOULD choose (beliefs and so on). When I notice these thoughts it's easier to let them go and make the choose without beliefs and HOW should I choose.
Not sure I'm following. The exercise was to see whether there's a "you" making choices or whether they just happen, regardless of what thoughts say.

Why do you put so much weight on thoughts if you know for a fact you do not control them?
Or do you still have doubts there? Are thoughts anything more than noise?

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Kaarin
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Re: Never too late!

Postby Kaarin » Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:02 pm

Noise they are, thoughts.


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