Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

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Eloratea
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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Wed Feb 29, 2012 2:12 pm

Dear Mark,

I am glad you are going honestly deeper with this.
I invited and welcomed it in and asked for a message. Only that feeling was there. Any attempt to further understand the feeling brings me into the mind.
Don't try to understand it intellectually. Just feel the feeling, the sensation in the body. No need to label it. Let it tell you what have.
Those feelings are last resistance, protecting the belief in the imaginary self. Mirage in itself; so just let it be and see what happens with it. Who is there to be abandoned, left alone?

No need to rush. Keep looking through the experiences and write when you feel so.

Best,
El

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby chimpta » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:58 pm

Yesterday the feeling of nausea came while looking in meditation. Today it came while just reading the intro paragraph on Ilona's Start Here blog. So far it hasn't told me anything, just a big knot in my stomach. Thanks for your suggestions. I am not giving up.

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Thu Mar 01, 2012 4:09 pm

It is all good really :)
I would put aside meditation for a while and see what happens; but leave it up to you.

Ponder on this - Who is there to give up, or not?

sending love

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby chimpta » Sat Mar 03, 2012 6:50 pm

Hi El,

Finally the weekend has arrived and I can rest for a couple of days. I am not ready to put aside meditation as yet. For now it is a spiritual laboratory that I enjoy a lot.

As I mentioned earlier, I continue to look as I awaken in the morning. This morning, as before, there was a lot of energy in awareness. Meditation was clear and deep. More than usual. It was being aware of awareness. The experience was that it was not possible to look at the me. It was so obvious that there was no me to look at and to that end the facility of looking would not arise. It is kind of like awareness saying don't bother me trying to look at something that is not there. Won't go there. On occasion there were still thoughts, feelings, activities of the mind but they were obviously nothing to identify with. The awareness within is a very natural, peaceful state.

It is now a few hours later. Life flows on. If I think about looking for the me then looking is still not cooperating. I can look at anything else, physical, emotional, etc., but looking for me.... not happening. No place to go to look. This is the biggest shift I feel this morning. There is no place to look for me. Awareness is not new. Very familiar with that. But the inability to energize the me looking exercise is something new. In thinking and speaking, me or I still come up as a structure of language but not as an identity of who I am.

Was a you ever there? Seems not. All I have is memories to look back on. Will this continue? Why not? For now I will enjoy the flow that awareness presents and go down the street to visit a family of Bald Eagles that recently moved in.
Those feelings are last resistance, protecting the belief in the imaginary self. Mirage in itself; so just let it be and see what happens with it. Who is there to be abandoned, left alone?
To answer you question, I can't find anyone to be abandoned and this morning I stopped looking.

So El, where does that leave us now? What is your take on all this?
Have a great day.
Mark

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:25 pm

Hello Mark,

it seems that we have a shift here. I can understand no point for looking for something that never existed :)
Does it feel liberating?

Could you describe now what is self and how it operates?

Thank you,
be well

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby chimpta » Sun Mar 04, 2012 1:55 am

Hi El,
Nice to hear back from you so soon. I was already wondering how to put this to words but here goes...
Does it feel liberating?
Liberating? Hmmm. It is subtle. There is not any dramatic feeling of something new. The flow of awareness, of life, continues and feels very natural, very comfortable. If there is the intention to look at self or analyze self there is a shift in awareness. Me is not found but the looking results in an silent, expanded, peaceful immersion into a sea of presence. It feels liberating in the sense that a false identification has dissolved away. But is that true? Sounds good but the "false identification" feels like a distant memory, not something I can relate to now. But it is very subtle and not something I think about as I go about daily activities.
Could you describe now what is self and how it operates?
In this now moment self feels like a silent, formless, peaceful awareness. That awareness is not projected on or identified with anything real of imagined. Activity continues on its own in a natural manner. There is the impulse to act, think, feel, whatever, without any need for ownership. How does the self operate? I don't see that it does.

It is a challenge to put this to words and accurately express the experience. I feel very peaceful and thankful for your assistance in bringing my experience this far.

Love and Light
Om Shanti

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:11 am

Hi Mark,

I am glad for a good feelings there.
In this now moment self feels like a silent, formless, peaceful awareness.
Just to clarify this a bit more. Is the self awareness? Is the awareness “I”? Is it personal?
Awareness is in this moment containing all that appears. How about self? Is there a self?

Love

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby chimpta » Sun Mar 04, 2012 4:42 pm

Om
Hi El,

You are always right there to respond and help. Great appreciation.
Just to clarify this a bit more. Is the self awareness? Is the awareness “I”? Is it personal?
How about self? Is there a self?
Thanks for the chance to dive deeper into this. No individual, personal or otherwise, is found in awareness. When awareness is aware of itself it just is. The individual self is not awareness nor is the individual self seen anywhere else. Any search for 'me' brings on a deeply peaceful expansion of a non-localized awareness. No me, no self, no I, just an abiding awareness that is more fun than a hot bath on a cold night. :)
Awareness is in this moment containing all that appears.
Up until now, playing with awareness has been within. Playing with awareness in the world of form sounds like a fun new adventure. As I now put attention on that there is a shift of perception and the perceived. Not sure how to word this... All that appears takes on a more dreamy, surreal vibration. The peacefulness felt on focusing within is, to some degree, also there focusing in all that appears, when taken in the context of awareness.

Will play with that as the day goes on but now this stomach wants breakfast. :) May add more later.

Om Shanti
Sending Love and Light

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Sun Mar 04, 2012 8:23 pm

Ok, Mark,

You can expand further on this and I would also need you to try to describe how this illusion of self comes and operates in life. How would you describe it to someone who never heard about it?
How story of Mark is now related with the awareness?

Love to you too

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby chimpta » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:41 pm

Hi El,

Below are the answers to your latest questions but a previous statement of yours continues to intrigue.
Awareness is in this moment containing all that appears.
Excuse the pronouns, it's easier this way. I can intellectualize about the meaning of this. At times I can almost get a sense of it. But the awareness that is experienced when I unsuccessfully look for a me is internal, within. Although awareness doesn't have a specific location it still feels like it is mostly within and the world is without. Sometimes it begins to shift to contain all but it is not by any means a strong perception. Can you offer any suggestions, comments, opinions?
how this illusion of self comes and operates in life.

It seems like the illusion of self comes up due to many influences. There is the structure of language, upbringing and culture that all work to create and solidify it. Language is obvious. It is awkward to try to get around pronouns. The language is structured around duality and even if you are awakened, language, as deficient as it is to describe Truth, still is what we are left with to verbally communicate. When we are children one of the first things we are taught about creates and strengthens our individuality. Where is Johnny's nose and so on. Our parents, school and society continue to support duality. The world of marketing does its best to create an insecure, needy individual that will find individual bliss if you buy their product. Then there are the emotional responses of humanness that can glue us to a me, such as fear, greed, hate, etc.
How would you describe it to someone who never heard about it?
The self is all that resists the truth of who we are. The ego, the me, create a center within that we wrongly identify with. As we awaken to our true identity the structure and support of an individual self falls away and what is left is a very natural state.
How story of Mark is now related with the awareness?
The relationship is in a false projected identification where awareness, projected onto a false image of self, created in ways stated above, begins to identify with that individual projection. This is something that I am still exploring. The story of Mark feels like a memory, almost like a movie. Still life goes on. There is still a personality, still the job, the wife and all that goes with it. But when I search for a Mark, other that in memory, all that is found is awareness.

El, when the intention is to look, which means to be aware of awareness, there is like a mild euphoria. This can happen any time of the day, in any activity. It is very peaceful but not something that I am attached to as far as to identify that with awakening.

Thanks for all your assistance in bringing this out.

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:38 pm

Hi Mark,
I am glad to hear from you again.

Dis-identification has begun obviously but I think you are not yet quite through.
Excuse the pronouns, it's easier this way.
No problem about pronouns :) For know we use the language as it is.
I can intellectualize about the meaning of this. At times I can almost get a sense of it. But the awareness that is experienced when I unsuccessfully look for a me is internal, within. Although awareness doesn't have a specific location it still feels like it is mostly within and the world is without. Sometimes it begins to shift to contain all but it is not by any means a strong perception. Can you offer any suggestions, comments, opinions?

It seems that there is still some gap between you and the world. Be it awareness or whatever it is – it is perceived to be on one side and world, rest of the life on the other.
Look if it is really so? Can it be so?
When you close your eyes can you feel clearly border between you and no-you.
Where stops awareness and begins the world?
If there are within and without it must be some reference point in between. Where is it?
Than you can ponder on this also with open eyes, while quietly siting, or walking.

Best,
El

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby chimpta » Mon Mar 12, 2012 2:41 am

Namaste El,
It seems that there is still some gap between you and the world.
Yes
Be it awareness or whatever it is – it is perceived to be on one side and world, rest of the life on the other.
Look if it is really so? Can it be so? When you close your eyes can you feel clearly border between you and no-you.
Where stops awareness and begins the world? If there are within and without it must be some reference point in between. Where is it? Than you can ponder on this also with open eyes, while quietly siting, or walking.
With eyes closed there is no clear border. If I put my attention on it then even outside sounds are heard within the awareness. So no border is there at that time for sound. When it comes to visual perception that is a different story. The border is everything on the other side of the eyes. At times, when attention is put there, the perceptual border, with eyes open seems to soften. Not sure if perception is confused or mixed with awareness here. Awareness does feel different. Not really sure what the experience is when there is no inner and outer.

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:27 pm

Hi Mark!
With eyes closed there is no clear border. If I put my attention on it then even outside sounds are heard within the awareness. So no border is there at that time for sound.
Yes, everything is in awareness.
When it comes to visual perception that is a different story.
How can it be different? How can any sense, any perception be outside of the awareness?
The border is everything on the other side of the eyes.
At times, when attention is put there, the perceptual border, with eyes open seems to soften. Not sure if perception is confused or mixed with awareness here. Awareness does feel different.
Body and body-perception belong are also in awareness. Look this way in actual life and see how it works.
Not really sure what the experience is when there is no inner and outer.
Don't get lost in concepts :)
Here and now - is there inner and outer in the experience?
Or it is just en experience? How it looks like? Anyone having it?

:)

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby chimpta » Tue Mar 13, 2012 2:25 am

How can it be different? How can any sense, any perception be outside of the awareness?
It can't. That much is understood.
Body and body-perception belong are also in awareness. Look this way in actual life and see how it works.
Yes that also makes sense. Awareness is what is.
Don't get lost in concepts :)
Here and now - is there inner and outer in the experience?
Or it is just en experience? How it looks like? Anyone having it?
Here and now there is awareness and there is experience. To awareness it is all one perception, one experience. Hmm, I think I am getting it. There is no me having it, there is awareness aware of the one experience. There is no inner and outer since it is all an experience of awareness. Your statement, "Awareness is in this moment containing all that appears." makes sense now. Thanks for not letting me off the hook. I know there is no me to be let off the hook. :)

Pleasant dreams.

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Re: Time to awaken to the Truth - looking for help.

Postby Eloratea » Tue Mar 13, 2012 9:19 am

Here and now there is awareness and there is experience. To awareness it is all one perception, one experience. Hmm, I think I am getting it. There is no me having it, there is awareness aware of the one experience. There is no inner and outer since it is all an experience of awareness. Your statement, "Awareness is in this moment containing all that appears." makes sense now. Thanks for not letting me off the hook. I know there is no me to be let off the hook. :)
Great :)
How it is going today?

Crossed the gateless gate?
:)


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