I would love a guide to help me!

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Sun Jul 03, 2016 6:19 pm

HI Jill

Nice work.
Not sure in the first one but in the second I would say no one, just life.
So with the first example (either with the feta sandwich incident or with another meal, or with 'what clothes to wear'), compare the flow of activities and inputs with our picture of the mountain stream (referring back to refresh your memory). As the 'choice is made' and the clothes are put on, or the meal is made, are there any environmental inputs, availability issues, 'things-which-go-well-with-other-things' factors, seasonal inputs? Have a good look, and after all these have been looked into, consider carefully: is there anything there remaining that can be traced back to any individual autonomous 'I'?

You didn't report back on the 'Looking Into Resistance' exercise. Did you do it? What happened?

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jilda
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby Jilda » Tue Jul 05, 2016 6:55 am

Hi Mark,
So with the first example (either with the feta sandwich incident or with another meal, or with 'what clothes to wear'), compare the flow of activities and inputs with our picture of the mountain stream (referring back to refresh your memory). As the 'choice is made' and the clothes are put on, or the meal is made, are there any environmental inputs, availability issues, 'things-which-go-well-with-other-things' factors, seasonal inputs? Have a good look, and after all these have been looked into, consider carefully: is there anything there remaining that can be traced back to any individual autonomous 'I'?
It was more of the “doing” then thoughts making a claim for the action. I noticed that when I thought I decided one thing and then did the complete opposite.

I am still looking at this and will report back later. It has been a busy holiday weekend here in the states and it deserves more time.
You didn't report back on the 'Looking Into Resistance' exercise. Did you do it? What happened?
I have used the resistance exercise in a slightly different way that worked for me. I had uncomfortable feelings that are hard to describe about going to a family party over the weekend. They was a lot of tension and contraction in abdomen with a sour taste in my mouth.

What I did was welcome the feelings and explored them fully, then after a few minutes they were gone.

Jill

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:30 am

Hi Jill

Thanks for the update.

I look forward to hearing from you when you have a bit more time.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jilda
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby Jilda » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:49 am

Hi Mark,

Having some trouble with the “flow of life” exercise. If I am in the moment and observing it seems like actions and decisions just happen without a “I” involved. If I am looking back in past to try to observe actions or decisions there seems to be an “I” thought. Does that make sense?

Jill

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:10 am

HI Jill

Yes, that makes perfect sense.

When you look back, noticing that 'I' thought, is that a thought reference (T), or is there any experience (E) of 'me'? What's the problem with a thought? Does a thought need to be believed?

So right now, what is your experience, if any, - your actual felt experience of 'me'? Can you actually find one, or does 'me' have to be inferred/assumed? If you can find such a sensed experience, please describe it in detail.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jilda
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby Jilda » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:00 pm

Hi Mark,
When you look back, noticing that 'I' thought, is that a thought reference (T), or is there any experience (E) of 'me'? What's the problem with a thought? Does a thought need to be believed?
It was a thought of me looking back and thoughts don’t have to be believed.
So right now, what is your experience, if any, - your actual felt experience of 'me'? Can you actually find one, or does 'me' have to be inferred/assumed? If you can find such a sensed experience, please describe it in detail.
You know when we started this, I felt a definite sense of me, now I’m not so sure. I have actively been going through my day noting what is actual experience (e) and what is just thought (t). I have sense of being on a cliff looking down is the best way to describe it. Maybe it just a thought/imagination but I actually sense it my body as slight fear and tingling (e).

Jill

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Thu Jul 07, 2016 5:13 pm

Hi Jill
I have sense of being on a cliff looking down is the best way to describe it. Maybe it just a thought/imagination but I actually sense it my body as slight fear and tingling (e).
1. Thanks for reporting this. Could you now stay with this for a while, following the steps of the 'Looking into Resistance' exercise one by one, and notice all that comes up. Then let me know.

2. So, is there a separate individual there or not? has there ever been more (or less) than THIS experience, 'Life happening, just as it happens'?

Take your time.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jilda
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby Jilda » Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:44 am

Hi Mark,
1. Thanks for reporting this. Could you now stay with this for a while, following the steps of the 'Looking into Resistance' exercise one by one, and notice all that comes up. Then let me know.
The fear of ‘falling off the cliff’ is gone after the resistance exercise. It seems to be non-issue now. No tingling or pit in my stomach, just gone.
2. So, is there a separate individual there or not? has there ever been more (or less) than THIS experience, 'Life happening, just as it happens'?
Not sure, still seems to be a “me” there but it is not as important as it once was. I find nothing seems to bother me lately. Even with the events of the last couple days in the States which use to concern me greatly I find a certain amount of detachment.

I think of a “me” as a bunch of thoughts, beliefs and habits but some of the sense of an “I” is still there but it is fading and sometimes absent when not thought of, if that makes sense. This sense of “I” is awareness that is centered in the body is the best way to describe it as an experience.

And yes I do find 'Life happening, just as it happens' a lot of time but it doesn’t seem to be completely there all the time.

Jill

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Sun Jul 10, 2016 10:37 am

Hi Jill

Thanks for that.
Not sure, still seems to be a “me” there but it is not as important as it once was.
So if there is one shred of a real 'me' there in experience, please report back on that in detail, so that we can look into that. Or is it only there as (T) ie a theory, some assumptions, some explanation offered for what is experienced? We are here to look into what is ACTUALLY the case, what is ACTUALLY happening, rather than theories and assumptions.

Please answer the following questions, and if there is a 'yes' to any of them, please report on the actual experience/sensation of 'me' there:-

1. Have you been able to find, a ‘self’ that is the ‘experiencer’?
2. Or a self that is 'the doer', or can control what happens?
3. Or a self that ‘makes’ decisions?
4. Or a self who ‘does the thinking’?
5. Can "the body" be found to be any more than label for sensations (namely tactile & kinesthetic)?
6. Can the five body senses be found to be experienced or caused by this ‘self’, rather than simply being unexplainable happenings?
7. Can a self be found ‘in here’ which is separate from the world and others ‘out there’?
8. Is there doubt or unclarity that in all these cases the ‘self’ is nothing other than a mental fabrication?

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jilda
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby Jilda » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:38 pm

Hi Mark,

Thank you Mark for these questions. I think they will help sort out some conflicting perceptions/observations I have. I need to do some deep looking, so give me some time with these.

Jill

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Sun Jul 10, 2016 4:47 pm

Yes, that's fine Jill

M
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Jilda
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby Jilda » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:07 pm

Hi Mark,
I have tried to work on your questions and noticed a lot of resistance in doing so. I feel almost immobilized. So I did your “Looking into Resistance” exercise.

The (e) that I got was tightness in my chest and feeling of dread (putting a label on it)(e & t). I tried to accept and embrace it but it becomes exacerbated and I had to stop.

What am I doing wrong? Waiting for your response in what to do.

Thanks,
Jill

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:52 am

Hi Jill

Thanks for your response.
The (e) that I got was tightness in my chest and feeling of dread (putting a label on it)(e & t). I tried to accept and embrace it but it becomes exacerbated and I had to stop.
What am I doing wrong? Waiting for your response in what to do.
Is anything wrong with that? Did you die? Is there any need to run away from this sensation? Is there anything stopping you from instead turning back and looking at the sensation/emotion full-on and embracing them?

Have you done step 4? - where you ask the sensation/emotion if it has something to show you - and then leave a pause and see what mental images come up, or words. (If something comes up fine, if nothing comes up also fine). You could maybe ask it if it is trying to protect you from something (then leave a pause, see what comes up)?

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.

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Jilda
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby Jilda » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:19 am

Hi Mark,

Just today had a good chunk of free time to work on the resistance and now I can’t seem to access it. It’s just gone! It’s so weird or good depending on the context. Hadn’t done anything or really thought about it as I’ve been busy at work and home.

So in lieu of that, I’m going to work on those questions you asked in the previous post. Will get back to as soon as possible.

Thanks,
Jill

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ElPortal
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Re: I would love a guide to help me!

Postby ElPortal » Thu Jul 14, 2016 5:45 am

Ok Jill

Looking forward to your answers on those.

Cheers

Mark
"I": a simple case of mistaken identity.


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