silecram, please come in.

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Ilona
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silecram, please come in.

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 25, 2011 6:30 pm

thank you for joining this forum.

Let's talk. How do you see this liberation thing, what do you expect it to do for you?
please answer when ready with 100% honesty. without honesty it can't be done.

thank you.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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silecram
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Sun Sep 25, 2011 8:04 pm

Let's talk. How do you see this liberation thing, what do you expect it to do for you?
please answer when ready with 100% honesty. without honesty it can't be done.

Hi Ilona, thanks for your time.

I want liberation to take 'me' away, to make it clear that thought are just thoughts and that it's not me, to give 'me' the space to see that it's not what it thinks it is and what it believes it is...

To see that i am is just a thought, to move from intelectual understanding to direct experience...

to recognise that there is only This and to see that All is This and I am that

It would really be a relieve to not see myself as a person anymore, to feel love for all that is and to wake up out of this nightmare mind makes me believe..

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Ilona
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby Ilona » Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:36 pm

seem that you are well ready. great.
ok, say this to yourself and see what comes up. notice thought and feelings. notice is there a noticer?

there is no me as a separate entity at all in reality as in zero.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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silecram
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:20 pm

what comes up is that it is totally true, there is no me, all is just thought and beyond thought there is nothing, emptyness, peace, but thoughts are stil there, pain is still there, and it's painfull, even when it's seen that in reality it doesn't exist...and whatever happens happens, life is happening, sure, but and still there is an I that causes miserie to itself, lol

i was waiting for a message, so that's why i am so late for ansewring, now i understand the system:-)

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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:44 pm

yes, silecram, thaoughs are real. and there is not thinker. only thoughts passing by. like clouds in the sky...
Physical pain is real. Emotional pain is real. what is it happening to?

if I is just a thought with nothingness behind it, can that thought suffer?
can thoughts have feelings? can they think?

take a thought 'table' -it is a word pointing to a real thing that is and you can see it, touch it, put a glass on it. but can you touch the thought 'table'? can you see that there are thoughts, that they are really happening, but the content is all imaginary. all are labels. and I is not pointing to anything toucheble or seen in real life. it's imaginary. that's how everyone is looking for 'myself' and can never find it. it's just an assumptin that 'me' exist.

what can a thought do?
report what you find.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:12 pm

yes, silecram, thaoughs are real. and there is not thinker. only thoughts passing by. like clouds in the sky...
Physical pain is real. Emotional pain is real. what is it happening to?

i don't really get this, i always have been told when i got thought or emotions that they are not real, now you say they are real... well, if i look to them, i c that there is one after the other, that they are actually not mine, that they just come in and pass by but that because of their speed there arises a sense of self, of me... but then still indeed, to whom arise these thougts? To nobody? because beyond thought, emotions and pain i can't see anything, there is nothing left in my experience (still it doesn't take the pain away and that's what 'i' really want, but this 'i' doesn't exist so may-be pain can just be there, i am not that far yest (who i?... like this i, we, can go on and on and on, who am i?)


if I is just a thought with nothingness behind it, can that thought suffer?
can thoughts have feelings? can they think?

the body is in pain, and the i identified with the body calles it 'my' pain... i don't think a thought can suffer, not in my experience but the falsely believed 'i' suffers... if thoughts could be seen for what they are really, all the time, there would be no sufferer, their could be pain but their wouldn't be a 'i' attached to it, wright?

can thoughts think? no there is just thought after thought after thought and that creates the thinker wich is 'i'


take a thought 'table' -it is a word pointing to a real thing that is and you can see it, touch it, put a glass on it. but can you touch the thought 'table'? can you see that there are thoughts, that they are really happening, but the content is all imaginary. all are labels. and I is not pointing to anything toucheble or seen in real life. it's imaginary. that's how everyone is looking for 'myself' and can never find it. it's just an assumptin that 'me' exist.

yes indeed, i c that but still i believe there must be a divine presence or a I am that identity, God, whatever but something, lol.. i want something to be there :-)

what can a thought do?
report what you find.

what can a thought do? it can believe itself and create a thinker... it can identify with what happens, call it his or her experience, it can be proud, angry, create emotions? actually aren't emotions thought also?
It can create whatever it wants, all kind of illusions and it can believe them and itself...

:-)

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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:14 pm

I'm not here to convince you of anything. And please do not believe anything I say. Test it. See for yourself. Think for yourself. Look right at thoughts and forget all what you have been told.
Take a fresh look.
Truth realized will set you free.
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silecram
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:53 pm

when believed thought can do eveything

but in reality thought can't do anything

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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:24 pm

getting cheated in a shop, anger comes, getting bad news from a friend, fear comes... but these feeling are attached to thoughts... i don't see anything else than thoughts coming and passing, but whene thoughts come and come they can make a story of me and others... only possible if there is a continuation of thoughts, when taking them all appart it is clear there is no mind and that thought creates a mind... still am stuck in 'it'...

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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby Ilona » Wed Sep 28, 2011 6:23 pm

ok, all good, it's just a rough patch, trust the process.
right lets see if there is a thinker.
where do thoughts come from? can they be controlled? is there a thinker and how would you know that? where does the thinking take place?

let's see what you've got here.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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silecram
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Thu Sep 29, 2011 7:40 pm

where do thoughts come from? can they be controlled? is there a thinker and how would you know that? where does the thinking take place?

there is no thinker there is only thought! there is no thinker only identification with thought! Thought come from 'space', the thinking takes place in my head... one thought after the other...

the space in between is what is... clearly seen!

but Ilona, today the pain in the head is so uge, so thoughts are clinging on that, making stories, try to find the 'reason' or sollution... since 15 years i have uge amount of pain, started after a accident... everything is been taking away from me, no more work, no more social life etc etc... today i went to a farm to do volunteer work but pain was so big that i left after an hour, people where enjoying life, swimming in the pool, playing football, for me there was only sadness and thoughts being observed as much as possible... not able to share about the pain because most of the 'others' judge or can't handle the 'mirror'.. So in this case, the only way is in.. nothing left...

may-be it's a gift but for 'me' it's still hard to accept... so keep on going to the space... in solitude...

i am angry, sad and fed up right now, i am not that but identification is strong-

what todo!?

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Ilona
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby Ilona » Thu Sep 29, 2011 10:18 pm

Yes, it gets intense at this point and if this pain and sadness is here, just let it be here. It's ok. Allow it to be, it came for a visit. Can you look closely at that pain and honour it. See what is behind it. Describe what you see.

The space in between thoughts is silence, but thoughts are part of the whole. They are not good nor bad, they are just thoughts and they are not outside what is. Everything is included.

What is 'me'? Look at it as a label, is there anything that is me that you can see or touch? How would you know?
Truth realized will set you free.
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silecram
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Sun Oct 02, 2011 12:59 pm

Yes, it gets intense at this point and if this pain and sadness is here, just let it be here. It's ok. Allow it to be, it came for a visit. Can you look closely at that pain and honour it. See what is behind it. Describe what you see.

The space in between thoughts is silence, but thoughts are part of the whole. They are not good nor bad, they are just thoughts and they are not outside what is. Everything is included.

What is 'me'? Look at it as a label, is there anything that is me that you can see or touch? How would you know?
It has been intense for years Ilona not just at this point!

Me is the one who enjoys or suffers things happening in life, me is the one who enjoyed doing a kambo session a few days ago, me is the lazy basterd who enjoys to do nothing and is angry about that at the same time, hahahah...and so there is loads more to me... but looked for indeed, beyond it, NO ME.... but that illusionary me still rules!

behind every emotion is a identification with what's happening... and behind that ther is nothing, just a flow of life happening

at the moment the experiences happening to 'me' are loads and i am truly enjoying some things happening to 'me'...

am not even sure i want to let go of me, i actually start to enjoy 'him' :-)

i have the feeling i start to repeat myself here... i know i don't exist but still it seems to be kinda real all that stuff happening, ... may-be i am not dedicated enough or not serious enough at this very moment...

can i do anything about? it's all just happening right!?

have a nice sunday Ilona

D

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Ilona
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:39 pm

yes, confusion is still happening in your head....
am not even sure i want to let go of me, i actually start to enjoy 'him' :-)

so how many of you are in there? i and me?
can you find me anywhere? is it possible that it does not exists?
what is that me that you are talking about?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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silecram
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Re: silecram, please come in.

Postby silecram » Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:27 pm

so how many of you are in there? i and me?
can you find me anywhere? is it possible that it does not exists?
what is that me that you are talking about?

well there is no me at all, just thoughts...
no i look for me but i cannot find any, all just thoughts
it is possible that it does not exist
that me is just a bundle of thoughts and emotions


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