Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

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Ilona
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:27 am

So is it true, that there is no separate entity at all, there is no 'me' in real life?

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:32 am

Hi!

This morning I woke up with a sense of calm that I have not felt in a long time. And I slept really good!. I do not remember dreaming at all. Then a thought came: 'This no me thing is a trickery'. And others followed. 'This(calm) is not going to last. There has to be something more to it. This is too simple'.

Then I looked to see where it is coming from. I could see, subtly, the mechanism of wanting to identify with it. Like I am the one thinking those thoughts and they are not 'nice' thoughts. Then a conclusion: 'There is something wrong with me'. The movement seems to take place and the labeling comes after. Thinking happened and it became 'I am the thinker'.

Is it true that there is no separate entity at all, that there is no 'me' in real life?

Yes...LIfe can very well BE without a 'me', 'myself' and 'I'. LIfe happens without a 'Me'. J-O-S-E-E does not exist...another label.

I can also see the thought: 'Yes. But your life should be a certain way and you have to work at it'...

AAARCH!!!!...it's like I do not want those thoughts in mind...

Where is the 'I' refusing those thoughts?...no where..invisible...

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Tue Sep 27, 2011 1:37 pm

Yes...LIfe can very well BE without a 'me', 'myself' and 'I'. LIfe happens without a 'Me'. J-O-S-E-E does not exist...another label.
ok, seems you have seen that life can be without you. now have a look, it's already the case. just let the truth come through.

just look for yourself. was there a 'me' ever?


.............

if you look at Josee as a character in the story. it is a real character. it has prefferences, likes and dislikes like every other character, including batman and just a house cat. what drives the character? what do you see there?

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Thu Sep 29, 2011 6:53 pm

Hi Ilona...sorry... I got a little busy...back again lol

Was there a me ever?

If so, it would be in the past and the past does not exist. Only in my imagination. So no, there could never be a "m-e' ever. When did I start believing that there was a me? Well I must have been a child. Coming in this world with no concepts, no labels. And then it appeared that my parents taught me that there was a me and a you. That there was 2. It reminds me of lyrics in a song "Our stories of bodies aren't us. They're just space, water and dust..."

What drives the character? what I do I see there?

I don't know. It seems mysterious. Something in the space? Something invisible? Something untouchable. A beleif, a thought, an emotion, a body sensation, desires, aversions...? The Illusion of need? The belief that I am a body and that I have to defend it, and protect it.

What drives?....love or fear. At times it is one at times it is the other? And what is love? What is fear?

I worked with dying patients in the past and their bodies seemed to go from animate to inanimate. What makes it go from animate to inanimate or inanimate to animate...ouf!...I don't know. I remember feeling deep inside that this could not be real. That it could not be the end. That reality could never end. That all the 'death' thing could not be true. That Who we really are could never die. To me it was just impossible. It never made any sense to me.

The fact is that I do not know what drives this caracter.

Consciousness? LIfe?...

I could digue deeper and deeper. It becomes infinite and I can not find the answer to that question. The 'I', the mental could not. It appears to be invisible to my senses.

There is a frustration that comes up that I have no choice. That nobody has any choice especially in going through painful experiences....hum....I am inquiring on that one...

Thanks!

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:26 pm

Thank you for answer.

So if there really is no 'me' what dies? Can you look here for a bit and see what comes up. The frustration is here and don't fight it, allow it to appear and just feel it. Honour it. It's just a part of plaing out.

Choice? No, I can not choose anything, choice is already make is there a chooser?
And also look closer at the brain. Does it need a entity to make choices for it or is it capable to run body itself?

And notice the character josee. Can you see how beautiful it is? It's a real character. The story is real, but it's also a fiction. Like: thoughts are real, but content is not.

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:35 am

If there is no 'me' what dies?
Bodies seems to die...but if there is no 'me' then nothing real can die...I guess

Is there a chooser?
Choosing happens without a chooser. There is no chooser.

Does the brain need an entity to make choices for it or is it capable to run body itself?
Ehe...the brain seems to know it's job really well without a me to interfere. It runs the body itself, yes.

Can I see how beautiful the character josee is?....ouf...beautiful...I don't know...there seems to be conditions for the character to be beautiful...(talking about behavior)...And I do not meet those conditions all the time. I know it sounds arrogant...that is why I am here :)

Ilona, I don't understand how the story can be real and a fiction at the same time?...What do you mean by content?...What comes to mind with content, is that it would be love or fear.
I thought the opposite was true...that the thoughts were unreal and the content was...Like I could be reading poetry or a phone book to someone and all that would matter is the love that inspires the reading...not the words or thoughts

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Fri Sep 30, 2011 5:56 am

Thoughts are real. Close your eyes for a bit and notice- they come- one by one, never stopping river of thoughts, labelling everything that is being felt, sensed, experienced, sounds are heard, thoughts immediately are labbeing what is happening...

Focus on the feeling of being, am, that which is always here. Just stay with it for a bit. Then notice how labels come up. Can you see now that thoughts are real. Same feelings. They are.

Now look at content of thoughts- just labels. They tell the story. And story is fiction.
If you remember what happened when you were 5 years old, it comes as a story, recreated every time, slightly different every time- just a fiction. Remember a movie you saw recently. There is a story in a movie, made up characters, yet the characters are real- they have their likes dislikes and way to deal with situations. Same is the character josee. It is a real character, but is there abything solid in the story? It's all made up by thoughts about it.

And thoughts come by themselves. what do you see hee? Is there a you that drives a story? Look for yourself, answer when ready.

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Fri Sep 30, 2011 2:14 pm

I understand that a story is personal...there is an 'I' attached to it...But in truth everything is happening to no one...there is no meaning attached to thoughts...The 'I' thought makes up meaning or fiction, like 'it' wants to own it. Like 'I am the one in charge, I am doing this or that, I am the doer'...and so on. Nothing solid, yes. It is all made up by thoughts about it...like a neuro association with the past. That is what I see.

FACT: Reading happens
FICTION: I AM reading, or I AM the reader

And I could replace 'reading' with any word

Is there a 'me' that drives a story?...When I look for a 'me', I can not find anything...there is nothing, nobody...It's like empty space, a void...

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Fri Sep 30, 2011 4:33 pm

Getting there josee..

So is it true that there is no separate 'me' at all? Was there ever a 'me'? How certain are you?

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:05 pm

So is it true that there is no separate 'me' at all?
There is no separate me in reality. A separate me is a play, a game. The game of wanting to be somebody.

Was there ever a 'me'?
There was never a me except in an illusory story of 'self'

How certain are you?

When I look around(sitting outside right now), Life is happening. Within and without. There is looking at nature, trees, sky, ect..., earing birds, tasting coffee, sensing the breeze, smelling the earth...without a 'me' in the way or interfering. It seems like image and looking happens at once, sounds and earing happens at once, drink and tasting happens at once, breeze and sensing happens at once, earth and smelling happens at once. It comes and goes, yet what IS, remains. Something remains here, now. There is no author or owner for 'IS' to 'BE'.

Doubts comes up when I think about 'work' and 'money'...now I feel frustration...hum...thoughts like 'I have to work for...' is tiring...I don't know how to let that one go...It's like the 'I' makes a difference there...merde!!!(a french expression for Shit!) lol

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 01, 2011 12:11 pm

looks like you are seeing it, staring right at it.

so doubts come up, yes, but isn't that just thoughts that are passing by effortlesly? is there anything that those thouhgts are happening to?

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:06 pm

OMG!!!...For the past 2 years I've had visions...Most of them are of nature or people looking straight at me...I am so dumbfounded when it happens. Those visions seems so real and alive...like mini movies...just as real as I am looking outdoor right now. Yet,during visions, my eyes are closed. It is as if something within me is seeing...yet it is not me that sees. Not my bodies eyes because my eyes are shut. As if the seeing happens without me. It is so unexplainable. Is it possible that the same is happening even if my eyes appears to be open? wowais!!! It is all happening in my mind. Sorry...might me irrelevant here...hum...thoughts passing by effortlessly?...yes....Is there anything that those thoughts are happening to? no

There is nobody thinking...thinking happens...
There is nobody seeing...seeing happens...

Thanks you Ilona!

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Ilona
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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:17 pm

Yes yes yes!!
So... How does it feel to be liberated?

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:03 pm

Hi!!!

I seem to be stuck at that question...how does it feel?...I could talk about past experiences of momentary total release. But right now it seems to not really be the case...A lot of emotions...And I can feel the identification to what is happening around me right now(which seems to be a struggle). It's like I can not answer until I 'know' deep in my heart...'This is it!'...I am stuck...:(...sorry...help...

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Re: Joseemca, come in, let's talk.

Postby joseemca » Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:30 pm

Yesterday this is what came up as an answer to the question...

As I am not the one doing anything, knowing anything or being anything...as everything is done, known and being without a 'self', there is nothing to do, know or be. It is all happening without 'me'. It feels like relief. There is no more guilt, fear, or belief in good or bad. There is no more meaning, no more difference, no more value. The 'I' thoughts can no longer be believed or taken seriously anymore. The illusion of need has disappeared. The truth can never be affected by anything or anyone. The truth is without space and without time. It is still and silent. It is pure and spacious...Nothing changes and nothing has to change. Everything IS as it IS...perfect, powerful...secure...light...immaculate...And a memory of a vison I had came up...A white bald eagle...free to soar above it all...
Yet words or symboles can not describe...it is speechless...


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