Nobody home

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Stoneburg
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Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Thu Jun 25, 2015 7:27 pm

Hi


I'm a bit sick of the spiritual nonsense after realizing my non-existence and am hoping for a place with less bullshit. posturing and religious dogma to hang out.



I found this place through Elena Joy's posts on the Dharma Overground, which brought me to Ruthless Truth and from there to this site. The passion and relentlessness of the Direct Pointing style, as well as the fun and megalomaniacal style of Ciaran Healy really appealed to me. I think most people in the "spiritual business" are into people pleasing rather than getting the truth out, and that many so called enlightened beings are repressing a whole bunch of shit, hiding behind attained states of meditation. My only remaining desires in life is truth, awakening and blow jobs.

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Ilona » Fri Jun 26, 2015 7:10 pm

Nice intro and certainly no bullshit.
Welcome to LU.

Sounds that you already see what we point there to. Can you describe in more detail, what happened, what changed, what's that non existence of you all about. Was there ever a separate being? Is there any doubt at all?

Just write what feels true.

Kind regards
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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Fri Jun 26, 2015 9:32 pm

What happened:

There was an "awakening" where me and my wife entered some sort of mystical drug fueled "state" and suddenly started getting all kinds of insights, visions and stuff spontaneously. We were both atheists at the time and quite surprised, it was awesome. At the end I looked in a mirror and asked myself "Who am I?" and the ego or personality "died" and was replaced by what I would call God. The realization struck home that everyone is IT. When I tried to walk back to the living room to tell my wife, some mysterious energy kept pushing me away, and a while later I found myself in the elevator two floors down receiving a sort of "download" that explained how the universe/illusion works and all that. While this was happening my wife who was obviously experiencing the same thing just decided to get out of the illusion, so she went out on the balcony and jumped, killing herself.

I got arrested for murder, beaten and locked up for a while and was totally out of the "state", back to being a small limited self. When I said in interrogation that we saw God they decided I was crazy and locked me up in a mental hospital for three weeks. After I got out I spent two years trying to figure out what the fuck happened, going on a spiritual journey and all that BS, trying to re-enlighten myself once I figured out that enlightenment seemed to fit the bill of what happened. After a bunch of mystical experiences and a few false starts I've now realized that enlightenment is not something that can happen to you, it's what is there when you are not.


The non-existence of me is the realization that there was no "me" to begin with, although it (me) was a very convincing concept. There was no separate being, but there was an experience of separateness and all kinds of thoughts happening that were taken to be "real" and identified with.

Current status: There is still a feeling of separateness. There are thoughts happening, like the thought "There are thoughts happening", but not very frequently. There's a realization that everything happens by itself, but also what seems to be a pattern of thoughts trying to either explain or control the situation. As soon as anything is "brought to awareness" it kind of falls away though. Like now there was the beginning of a thought that "I have to express this the right way" but before it could complete itself it sort of gave up and fell away. There's still some sort of sense that "I" need to "do" something, but it is kind of hard to describe what that is, feels mostly like a nervousness in the body.

I don't know if there is doubt, because I am not really sure what doubt is. Doubt seems to be just another function or thought. I guess there is a bit left actually, or I wouldn't be here... Yep, there is some doubt. It seems centered around the thought "can it be this easy" or something similar.

I have to be honest that from my perspective I am not really writing most of this, or any of it. Most of the writing happens spontaneously, then there is a gap and the body will take a pause for a few seconds and wait either for the fingers to start moving themselves or a thought to come up. Sometimes the thought comes up first and is expressed through typing, but a lot of the time the typing happens without a though and "I" am reading it as it is typed out.

There seems to be an "ability" to surrender "control" in everyday circumstances and I would say that most of the time when communication happens with other humans, there is no thought happening and the whole thing is very spontaneous. Same thing goes for most bodily functions and this body will go to the store, cook or whatnot pretty much without there being any connected thought activity to it. The main difference is that the interactions and actions happen more gracefully, skillfully and elegantly when there is no preceding thought activity or "ego chatter".

There's also been a shitload of energy shifts with the body seemingly adjusting itself, flopping around, getting contractions out etc. And there is also the ability to sense other humans emotions/energies, as well as some limited kind of "mind reading" or expanded empathy.

Language seems to be a huge hurdle since it always revolves around the I/me/you stupidness, which causes some confusion and disgust. Like the thought came "I really appreciate these questions" but there's actually a kind of "twinge" happening whenever the word "I" is used, and all words and thoughts are kind of experienced as gross and clumsy.

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Ilona » Sat Jun 27, 2015 10:59 am

OMG, that was some hardcore experience. i'm very sorry to hear about your wife and how all evolved after. crazy stuff..
Current status: There is still a feeling of separateness
ok, can you find that feeling of separateness. is this something that is always here or comes and goes? is this sensation here now? can you look, what is separate from what exactly? can you find a line that separates ME from everything else? try to find it with both eyes open and closed. what is there?
Yep, there is some doubt. It seems centered around the thought "can it be this easy" or something similar.
well yes. it is this easy. mind wants to complicate everything, make stories. but what is, simply is. it's more than simple. and that sometimes is something that mind does not want to accept. because it's scared to lose it's job.

what would be lost if that really is this simple?
Language seems to be a huge hurdle since it always revolves around the I/me/you stupidness, which causes some confusion and disgust. Like the thought came "I really appreciate these questions" but there's actually a kind of "twinge" happening whenever the word "I" is used, and all words and thoughts are kind of experienced as gross and clumsy.
i agree, language is gross and clumsy and it's difficult to put into words what is being seen. but this language is all we've got. it appears that there are subjects, objects, actions; language creates duality. seeing through language itself is freeing. then word i can be said without cringing, as it is seen to be empty.


sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Stoneburg
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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:43 pm

OMG, that was some hardcore experience. i'm very sorry to hear about your wife and how all evolved after. crazy stuff..
Yeah it is quite the absurd story and obviously created a huge bunch of trauma, which ”I” am still somewhat clinging to and trying to own.
ok, can you find that feeling of separateness. is this something that is always here or comes and goes? is this sensation here now? can you look, what is separate from what exactly? can you find a line that separates ME from everything else? try to find it with both eyes open and closed. what is there?
The feeling of separateness seem to be a nervousness or fear that is like a thin layer of skin or a sheath around the body, more pronounced in certain areas than others. A bit like a trepidation of moving into something that could hurt. Kind of similar to the fear of stepping into a pool, not knowing how cold the water is going to be, or if it is even water… not a great analogy. It’s a fear of getting hurt. Like a newborn baby that doesn’t want to be touched by the ”external” world.
well yes. it is this easy. mind wants to complicate everything, make stories. but what is, simply is. it's more than simple. and that sometimes is something that mind does not want to accept. because it's scared to lose it's job.

what would be lost if that really is this simple?
The game of suffering would be over, that is what would be lost. And the sense of somehow being ”special”. The mind does not want to accept it because, as you put, that would be the end to it. Thoughts would become irrelevant and there would be no sense of control anymore. The ”ability” to manipulate others would go away. Basically, the game would be over.

There’s another part that knows that it really is that simple and that I’m just making it more complicated for myself in order to postpone the final letting go, for some reason. Probably because I am addicted to suffering.
i agree, language is gross and clumsy and it's difficult to put into words what is being seen. but this language is all we've got. it appears that there are subjects, objects, actions; language creates duality. seeing through language itself is freeing. then word i can be said without cringing, as it is seen to be empty.
There’s nowadays a strong aversion to language, as language is seen as the carrier of the I-virus. To me the I-thought or ”ego” is a virus based on language that has infected the brain not unlike a parasite, and is trying to control the world and body through fear impulses and other negative emotions.
sending love.
Thank you. I very much appreciate this, and the whole Direct Pointing work you are doing, feels like this is the final nail in the coffin after exhausting all (well most) other traditions, techniques and models.

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:51 pm

I feel I did not fully answer this one in the first post.
ok, can you find that feeling of separateness. is this something that is always here or comes and goes? is this sensation here now? can you look, what is separate from what exactly? can you find a line that separates ME from everything else? try to find it with both eyes open and closed. what is there?
The feeling of separateness seem to be a nervousness or fear that is like a thin layer of skin or a sheath around the body, more pronounced in certain areas than others. A bit like a trepidation of moving into something that could hurt. Kind of similar to the fear of stepping into a pool, not knowing how cold the water is going to be, or if it is even water… not a great analogy. It’s a fear of getting hurt. Like a newborn baby that doesn’t want to be touched by the ”external” world.

The sensation is definitely here now, that is from where I described it. I don’t think it comes and goes much, it’s only noticed or not noticed, lesser or greater in extent. There have been unity experiences where there are no boundaries, but they are rare and have not happened recently.

With eyes open the ”line” feels more like an energy bubble or sheath that is covering the front of my upper body. A bit like the top part of a hazmat suit.

With eyes closed some fear came up and the body made an instinctive ”pull away” and ”grimace” like it was trying to avoid getting hit or hurt by something.

What is separate from what… it feels like the body is separate from its surrounding, I guess. There’s no sense of ”me”, I don’t even know what that sense would look or feel like. Different parts of the body seem to be in different states of vulnerability and openness. Actually this ”ME” thing is very frustrating because it feels like it is something that is hiding, not wanting to be exposed.

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Ilona » Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:32 am

Great work, thank you.
Yes, it seems that there is something hiding, not wanting to be exposed. Have a look, what is there? What is that wants to be protected?

Look at fear as a protection mechanism, it's here because something is feeling threatened. But you can look behind it and find out what that is. Write what shows up.

( great analogy about getting into water btw.)
The game of suffering would be over, that is what would be lost. And the sense of somehow being ”special”. The mind does not want to accept it because, as you put, that would be the end to it. Thoughts would become irrelevant and there would be no sense of control anymore. The ”ability” to manipulate others would go away. Basically, the game would be over.
Loss of suffering is not such a big loss, really, I don't think it would be missed.. :) only, suffering aka intense unwanted emotions don't just disappear, they are welcomed instead to come up and be felt freely without judgement. Specialness may drop, but uniqueness is still here. If you look at what you are actually in control of, what do you find?

Sending love
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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:07 pm

Great work, thank you.
Yes, it seems that there is something hiding, not wanting to be exposed. Have a look, what is there? What is that wants to be protected?
Several things want to be protected, at the *core* it seems to be the sense of ”me”, which is the source of separation.

There was also the belief/fear/concept of being completely alone because there is no-one anywhere, if ”I” don’t exist nobody else does either and the thought ”No-one will be able to take care of me”. Felt like kind of a baby being left alone and unprotected (which happened when the body was young).

There was/is also a huge fear of violence, stemming from when the body was beaten/tortured 2 years ago. This happened immediately following the awakening so the system was at complete openness and vulnerability, which seems to have caused all these traumas to penetrate to the core so to say.

That was all that was found for now.
Look at fear as a protection mechanism, it's here because something is feeling threatened. But you can look behind it and find out what that is. Write what shows up.
The core fears turn up as very deep contractions in the body system. Feels similar to having shards of glass stuck in the body in various places. The fear seems to be an effort to keep the awareness away from these wounds/contractions. It also seems as if ”thoughts” are kind of being created by these contractions in an effort to distract from actually feeling them. Whenever awareness goes to them and stays with them they start dissolving and there is first pain/fear and then an energetic release and relaxation. This process has been happening for a long time and ”I” am used to it, just relaxing and letting the body ”freak out” and get rid of the stuff. Frankly the body is doing everything and the thoughts, even the ones that sort of pretend to be ”helpful” are just more distractions. The most effective healing is when thoughts are not coming at all and the body system is just left to do it’s own thing.
Loss of suffering is not such a big loss, really, I don't think it would be missed.. :) only, suffering aka intense unwanted emotions don't just disappear, they are welcomed instead to come up and be felt freely without judgement. Specialness may drop, but uniqueness is still here. If you look at what you are actually in control of, what do you find?
The ”control” seems to be a complete illusion. Kind of like a narrative voice that is trying to pretend that it is making the movie happen, but it is only either describing (making a story) or trying to claim credit like ”Hey I said I was going to the bathroom and now I am, so obviously I am in control”. In truth there is no control of anything, it all just happens, but there are a few quirks that show up.

It’s obvious that there is a resistance, and that the resistance is caused by the mind (which is basically an illusion too, it’s just thoughts, there is no ”mind”). But there is a connection between thoughts and emotions somehow. If there’s a sad thought, there usually comes a corresponding feeling of sadness. I guess the core issue is that the ”I” pretends to be in control of the thoughts, which in turn pretends to be in control of the body. Basically I think the brain has been controlling the body, and now the body is taking over. There’s been a strong identification with the brain/mind so it ”feels” like ”I” am letting go of control, but the truth is that I am not the brain, the brain is the brain and the I is just a thought/idea that seems very sticky.

Everything really seems to be connected to the different contractions in the physical body. Like there’s a parasite in the brain that has it’s strings attached to different contractions (caused by fear) and it is/was using them to manipulate the body kind of like a puppet.

The last sense of ”I” seems to be connected to the awareness itself, as in the ability to shift focus from looking at one thing to another, or feeling say the spine rather than the chest or head. It’s like the ”I” is retreating and looking for something else to attach itself to. But there seems to be no real ”control over that either”. For example the thought ”Look to the left” came up and the eyes swung to the right, as if to show ”You’re not in control”. In fact the body has been communicating a lot through body language, making different gestures when certain insights have come up etc. But the spiritual idea of ”I am awareness” seems kind of flawed too. Awareness just is, no need for an I there either.

There is also the sense that ”I” am somewhat able to control the thoughts, which won’t go away. It’s quite strange, because it is obviously not a ”total control” or they would have been shut down altogether, but there is a sense of being able to manipulate them… but that is just another trick of the brain/mind.

It still feels like there is something missing... more stuff is hiding... investigation will continue.

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Sun Jun 28, 2015 3:23 pm

Ok there's also this reoccurring thought/feeling that "I" can do something "wrong", like there needs to be a complete synchronization between the thinking or perceived intention and what happens. It's kind of like I am slightly outside reality (which is true perception wise) and trying to gently fit myself back in. Feel like the system is actually calibrating towards reality, if that makes sense. Entering the flow molecule by molecule.

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Ilona » Sun Jun 28, 2015 9:39 pm

Some very focused looking there. Good work!

Fear of aloneness still assumes someone that is alone. But no one is here. Have a look.
Basically I think the brain has been controlling the body, and now the body is taking over. There’s been a strong identification with the brain/mind so it ”feels” like ”I” am letting go of control, but the truth is that I am not the brain, the brain is the brain and the I is just a thought/idea that seems very sticky.
What has been controlling the brain?
Look at nature, what controls it? What makes wind go one way or another? Or what makes a tree grow from a seed? What makes animal behave the way they do? How about humans? Are there little avatars controlling bodies? Then what is that could do something wrong, or right?

Right here right now, is there a switch on and of to control the flow of sense perceptions? How about attention? Are you moving it or it moves effortlessly?

Sending love.
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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Sun Jun 28, 2015 11:08 pm

Some very focused looking there. Good work!
Fear of aloneness still assumes someone that is alone. But no one is here. Have a look.
No-one is there, it is empty. There’s no personality or entity hiding there, just an intense and somewhat painful vibration.
What has been controlling the brain?
Look at nature, what controls it? What makes wind go one way or another? Or what makes a tree grow from a seed? What makes animal behave the way they do? How about humans? Are there little avatars controlling bodies? Then what is that could do something wrong, or right?
Nothing is controlling the brain, just like nothing is controlling the hear. The brain pumps out thoughts like the heart pumps our blood.
Right here right now, is there a switch on and of to control the flow of sense perceptions? How about attention? Are you moving it or it moves effortlessly?
No switch.

Attention is interesting. It moves itself but also recently displays characteristics that could be described as ”playful”. When your question was read attention went a bit ”silly” and jumped around very fast as if to demonstrate that. It seems as if awareness is playing with this concept of ”me” or a ”witness”. Basically the self-operating status of the whole vehicle seems to be ”revealing itself” in some strange weird way. From a story line perspective it’s as if the body and awareness is asserting itself against the fiction of the ”ego”, and playing with it. It’s funny.

The question ”are you moving it” makes no sense. There’s no me, just a very subtle sense of… ”controlingness” that is being denied. If we stick with the story of a ”you” it’s like control is gently being taken away from ”me” and given to the body and awareness itself, which is exactly what the character in the play wanted. Yeah that is a good description, the body is what is waking up or being liberated, the sense of ”me”-ness is what is giving way to that.

When the thought ”Is there a sense of me?” is asked there’s a period of silence, then a subtle feeling of sadness or saying goodbye. Eyes get a bit teared up. Mainly silence. There is looking, but no thoughts happening right now. A memory of the characters wife comes up, some tears. The though ”nobody left to do anything” comes. Then the thought ”everything happens by itself”, and the head swivels a bit to look around. The though ”Should I write some more” came after a while, just waiting happening. The body is reacting a bit to the music that is being played. No me here, never was. A sense of searching and wanting it to be over happening. Just more contractions leaving the body, this all happens by itself. The thought ”Am I faking it?” came up, no thought or feeling as response to that, except a bit of an energy release in the sacral.

The thought came ”Am I done” then ”Not yet” and after that ”say goodbye”, then the body did thumbs up. The body is taking care of the rest.

Goodbye

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Ilona » Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:35 pm

The brain pumps out thoughts like the heart pumps our blood.
uh, that is a big fat assumption. lets look closer.
where thoughts come form ?
where does the thought Brain come from?

do you know what thought will come next? can you stop a thought in a middle? prevent it from coming?
are you listening to voice in the head or are you talking as a voice in the head?

can you stop thinking at will for half hour?
can a thought think?
When the thought ”Is there a sense of me?” is asked there’s a period of silence, then a subtle feeling of sadness or saying goodbye. Eyes get a bit teared up. Mainly silence. There is looking, but no thoughts happening right now. A memory of the characters wife comes up, some tears. The though ”nobody left to do anything” comes. Then the thought ”everything happens by itself”, and the head swivels a bit to look around. The though ”Should I write some more” came after a while, just waiting happening. The body is reacting a bit to the music that is being played. No me here, never was. A sense of searching and wanting it to be over happening. Just more contractions leaving the body, this all happens by itself. The thought ”Am I faking it?” came up, no thought or feeling as response to that, except a bit of an energy release in the sacral.

The thought came ”Am I done” then ”Not yet” and after that ”say goodbye”, then the body did thumbs up. The body is taking care of the rest.
gorgeous! :)
how are you feeling today?

sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:56 pm

The brain pumps out thoughts like the heart pumps our blood.
uh, that is a big fat assumption. lets look closer.
where thoughts come form ?
where does the thought Brain come from?
When that was written there was a sense of ”wrongness” to it. More true seems to be that the brain/mind or whatever it is seems to be like a receiver to thoughts. Like a radio or television that doesn’t produce the ”show”, just provide a channel for it to come through.

When the thought is asked ”Where do thoughts come from”. The answer comes up ”nowhere” but doesn’t feel true, the body shakes its head. The body nods and does thumbs up at ”it come from a field”. It’s probably aliens doing it, playing mind games with us.
do you know what thought will come next? can you stop a thought in a middle? prevent it from coming?
are you listening to voice in the head or are you talking as a voice in the head?

can you stop thinking at will for half hour?
can a thought think?
I can’t do shit because I don’t exist. There’s been plenty of ”effort” trying to do so, but in truth it seems more likely that even this is some sort of game being played where ”apparent” control is given to the illusory ”I” and just another distraction or attempt to get away from liberation by faking it. Kind of like the ”ego” or whatever standing really still for a little time pretending to ”be awareness”

There’s sometimes an identification with one of the ”voices”, which means ”I” am pretending to have a conversation with ”the ego” or whatever. And sometimes just a listening happening with no identification.

Can not stop thinking for half an hour. Thoughts have become less frequent and of lower volume, but have not at all stopped entirely. I’d say it is rare for more than 10 seconds to pass without thinking. When no thoughts are happening there’s a feeling of peace and often energetic releases. When the thought ”Can I do something to speed up the process” comes the answer is always (always) ”silence”. No idea how that silence happens though, there does not seem to be any real causality, rather the thoughts are trying to create a cause/effect story that has little or no bearing on reality.
When the thought ”Is there a sense of me?” is asked there’s a period of silence, then a subtle feeling of sadness or saying goodbye. Eyes get a bit teared up. Mainly silence. There is looking, but no thoughts happening right now. A memory of the characters wife comes up, some tears. The though ”nobody left to do anything” comes. Then the thought ”everything happens by itself”, and the head swivels a bit to look around. The though ”Should I write some more” came after a while, just waiting happening. The body is reacting a bit to the music that is being played. No me here, never was. A sense of searching and wanting it to be over happening. Just more contractions leaving the body, this all happens by itself. The thought ”Am I faking it?” came up, no thought or feeling as response to that, except a bit of an energy release in the sacral.

The thought came ”Am I done” then ”Not yet” and after that ”say goodbye”, then the body did thumbs up. The body is taking care of the rest.
gorgeous! :)
how are you feeling today?
Right now.. not much in the way of emotions happening. Some tiredness. Mainly pains and energy releases in the head area and solar plexus, which is standard the last months. The process seems to be mainly about letting go of contractions in the body and removing energy blocks in the ”chakra system”. There’s a slight tinge of despair and a subtle want/thought that this be over soon.

Had a very intense amount of shaking and feeling of dying earlier when we communicated on Facebook, it feels like something "fake" is continuously being found and removed from the system. Like something gross, almost like a shit-deamon, is being forced out. The body does a lot of acting out, both with physical movements and facial grimaces. Lots of pain, mainly above the solar plexus, some more pleasant releases in the knees and calves.

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Stoneburg » Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:04 pm

Missed "Can a thought think?".

From this perspective a thought is just a string of sub-vocal words, so it reasonably can't do anything. Just like a string of words in a newspaper can't do anything. There's sometimes a stickiness that seems to "pull awareness in" and cause an identification with what happens. There is however an apparent correlation between thoughts and emotions, where certain thoughts like "She doesn't love me" or whatever will seem to produce a corresponding feeling.

This is a nut that seems vital to crack. There's an urgent sense that it is important to figure out what thoughts can and can't do, if indeed they can do anything. One possibility is that it is just a narrative that has no effect on what is happening, like an idiot making a speaker overlay on a movie and getting it right sometimes, but not always. It's annoying. Who's doing the thinking? (there's no who, but an IT) and Why won't it shut the fuck up now that the game is up?

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Re: Nobody home

Postby Ilona » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:40 am

:) what is doing thinking? Good question. Is there a thinker? How would you know? What informs about the presence of a thinker?

Here is an exercise for you http://markedeternal.blogspot.co.uk/2012/05/labels.html
Do it here or on paper, it will help to shed some light on how language creates a doer.
Write what you noticed.

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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