Open invitation, reply and we begin

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:41 pm

"self" now, is mostly a small collection of stories of why this process is not happening. For example it thinks it should always feel some elation if this was working out. Or it thinks this may be taking too long, it feels on a deadline. Then of course it sees they are only thoughts and go back to looking where all is well. But it keeps coming back to it. It also gets into life stories with friends and can't seem to avoid them, they seem irresistible. I give it permission cause if I don't they become even more enchanting. Still they bring worries. "I" spends its days with ups and downs, they fluctuate, never quite the same.

Love, Lucid
From Ilona:

What to do?

Well it’s a very simple thing that needs to be resolved….

There is this thought I… and once you see that I is just a thought

And you see that thought itself does not think….

It clicks!

It’s very very simple.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:02 pm

Hmm. What is the I that feels disconnected from the I?

Love, Elizabeth

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:57 pm

My translation of this is: thoughts = "I" = smoke = thoughts

so in applying it to Ilona's text it goes...

What to do?

Well it’s a very simple thing that needs to be resolved….

There is this smoke called Smoke… and once you see that smoke is just smoke

And you see that smoke itself does not think….

It clicks!

It’s very very simple.

Very simple indeed Ilona! LOL

Thank you!


now in applying it to Elizabeth's text it goes...

Hmm. What is the smoke that feels disconnected from the smoke?

Don't know, must be a kind of very special smoke! lol

Thank you Elizabeth! Muah! Ku'u momi makamae


PS For Lisa...

Mahalo! Aloha nui loa

To all you three... Aloha! XOXOXO

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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sat Feb 25, 2012 6:27 am

Wondering why I can't grasp what is obvious to me? What I've discovered here seems to remain on an intellectual level only. Thinking that every time I was convinced about something, I always felt it in my gut. Crystal clear that this body isn't me, just a gathering of cells containing water and carbon, and it does what it wants or what it can and I have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it. I can walk on a street and get a weird feeling in my gut, my eyes immediately look around to see who's in trouble and sure enough I always spot him. I have no idea how a "me" could do this, seems it works on a radar ("I" must be a bat!) My thoughts are not mine.. they often come and warn me about stuff.. intuition, precognition. I can't help it I SWEAR IT'S NOT ME! lol

Eventhough I feel separate, I always somehow felt connected to it all. I find impossible to imagine not being here, no matter how hard I try. This thing that looks, this awareness is always here, even when I sleep. Once I woke up just cause someone was watching me sleep.. So maybe I am identifying awareness as a "me"? Sure hope I don't get the stick for that! ;O)

Friday night in the big city.. Have a great time!

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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Feb 25, 2012 1:41 pm

Wondering why I can't grasp what is obvious to me? What I've discovered here seems to remain on an intellectual level only. Thinking that every time I was convinced about something, I always felt it in my gut. Crystal clear that this body isn't me, just a gathering of cells containing water and carbon, and it does what it wants or what it can and I have nothing, absolutely nothing to do with it. I can walk on a street and get a weird feeling in my gut, my eyes immediately look around to see who's in trouble and sure enough I always spot him. I have no idea how a "me" could do this, seems it works on a radar ("I" must be a bat!) My thoughts are not mine.. they often come and warn me about stuff.. intuition, precognition. I can't help it I SWEAR IT'S NOT ME! lol

Eventhough I feel separate, I always somehow felt connected to it all. I find impossible to imagine not being here, no matter how hard I try. This thing that looks, this awareness is always here, even when I sleep. Once I woke up just cause someone was watching me sleep.. So maybe I am identifying awareness as a "me"? Sure hope I don't get the stick for that! ;O)

Friday night in the big city.. Have a great time!

Is it truer to say: I am awareness, or there is awareness?
And no fooling around on this.
If this life depends on being absolutely truthful, can you absolutely KNOW that 'I' is awareness?
Is awareness an I? Is it reserved for these special things that happen to a special I?
Or is this another case of attaching an I to a bunch of thoughts, coming up with a supporting story, and presenting this as 'your' reality?
We can do this forever, or you can detect the pattern here.
Love, Elizabeth

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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sat Feb 25, 2012 5:38 pm

There is awareness.
We can do this forever, or you can detect the pattern here.
I understand what you're saying but all I've learned feels like water running off the feather of a duck. Yet you keep repeating the lesson and as you say we could do this forever, but I'm just not getting it and my mind is desperatetly fishing for some reasons why not. I just don't get why this is not sinking in? I was thinking of going off on my own for a while and see what I can come up with.

Love, Lucid

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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:56 pm

but I'm just not getting it and my mind is desperatetly fishing for some reasons why not. I just don't get why this is not sinking in? I was thinking of going off on my own for a while and see what I can come up with
Well the thought of going off gave me enough distance to clarify the above in my head...

Actually I do get why this is not registering for me. The only way I've ever grasp anything has always been through feeling it and then seeing it, as a result of getting it kinesthetically first. Never the other way. See I get confused cause I try to do it your way (more visual approach) while instinct seeks a "feeling" first. Which is why I offered from the very beginning little fragments of stories to show you how I process stuff in my mind, like picking up a vibe on the street and then looking to find the visual correspondance to that feeling. I'm sorry, maybe I was too vague for you to understand what I was trying to do and then expecting you to read between the lines that what I meant, was for you to see the kind of approach I use to make sense out of my experience. When I let the body slip into a sensation/perception mode, racing thoughts calm down and I SEE with the eyes of a child. I also get that I can watch the observer with a distance to some extent. Once you asked me to go past the observer and it created a big gap for me, I didn't tell you, instead I tryied to apply what you suggested I do, but I found it impossible and confusing. I am trying to clarify as much as I can here and I hope we can find a way around this minor thing.

Years ago I got into a little Neurolinguistic Programmation and found out that 60% of the people are visuals, another 20% are auditory and 20% kinesthetic. They actually had done surveys about it. Made me get why I could not understand some of my past relationships and why they could not understand me. I don't know all that much about it but it gave me enough insight to realize that no one is ever at fault in a sense. We only have different approaches.


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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:37 pm

Hi Lucid,
There are several exercises in these pages that use the body. If NLP works for you I would truly try it.
Why not?
Here we are trying out everything. Some people dance, some people walk, some people do very slow physical movements. At all times feeling into them for this:
If a self construct is seen not to be doing these things, the question is, what is?
That is the BIG question from here.
If not a me, what?
Love, Elizabeth

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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:26 pm

Here we are trying out everything. Some people dance, some people walk, some people do very slow physical movements
Love to watch micro-sensations/movements in the body and small inert things free of significance/symbols, which inevitably make thoughts go into a spin, subtly robbing the body of it's energy. Also I take long slow walks in dormitory kind of streets where the wind can be heard in the trees. The more I look into this enlightenment thing, the more I see that it is like hitting a switch to get a light on, nothing more, and acts a bit like a dimmer while all else is optional (feelings of elation etc.) nothing mystical about it.

When I slowed down yesterday, saw a glimpse of something I can't describe, and that seemed like an absence of the observer. Nothing long enough to really appreciate the view but made me realize how important it is to go SLOW. Meanwhile when my wave crashes the shore creating havoc, I really do appreciate your loving "massive dose of I don't care ;O) Just what is needed
http://whatislooking.blogspot.com/2012/ ... -care.html

If a self construct is seen not to be doing these things, the question is, what is?
That is the BIG question from here.
If not a me, what?
Outside of any thoughts about it, the eyes can see that NOTHING is doing them, they're only simply DOING. To clarify, Lucid washes the dishes, and too preoccupied forgets about it. Comes back down later on to wash the dishes and realizes they're done! What did them? It was automatic, no observer accounted for and if thoughts were necessary to do them they'd still be in the sink. Hope my example is clear enough.

Very much love to you Elizabeth!

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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Sun Feb 26, 2012 11:55 pm

Nice work, Lucid.
You are enchanting :-)
When things are just as they are, they are not personal. They don't belong to an I. And they are not separate.
It's a different view.
Nothing spiritual about it. Simple recognition, a natural state. Seems silly to call it special. Enchanting, but not special.
It's living as an apparent paradox, you see it as all, and you are still as you are, also. Both, but never not one.
All that stuff that made no sense turns out to be quite direct speech.
So as you find your next step here: follow what is indicated, what smells like the right direction, walk where you are leaning...open to that movement that is felt.


That's it.

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:27 pm

Lucid, what is happening with the following movement?
Love, Elizabeth

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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Wed Feb 29, 2012 12:24 am

Dear Elizabeth, our thoughts must have crossed I was planning on letting you know what is happening. I have been very busy with renovations in the house, changing the central heating system right in mid-winter. It's a must! I just left birdy in a pension for few days cause it will be cold and very noisy here tomorrow, real trauma for the little one. Once I'm done writing this, I'll have to unclogg certain areas of the house so the men can do the job, and I'll have to re-install a bunch of stuff afterwards.

Meanwhile I'd like to share a little anecdote about someone who ruffled my feathers a bit yesterday on Facebook. The guy was ranting about people who chose to go with any gurus on fb and not really wanting to wake up. I casually added that some people "chose" to embrace tourism which is ok. He responded by saying that there certainly are some tourism pages on fb and that I should join them, which I perceived as being sarcasm of course. Now, I never respond to a guy that throws shit around, for very simply there he is, alone with his shit. lol Woke up in the middle of the night to go to the can and awake, his contempt came back to me and sent me spinning on the hamster wheel again!

At first, came to mind that it was just a "nobody" hitting on another "nobody" but it didn't help much. Then I became aware that he was just identifying with his thoughts about what I had said but still, the hamster kept running.. (guess he had impressed me with his perfect English style.. lol) then I saw that if my thoughts really belong to me, I certainly would have control over them and this was enough for me to turn around and go right back to sleep. lol

It was neat in a sense to experience what I've learned with you here, outside of just little me at home with nothing or no one to challenge it with. Makes me feel so free! There will never be enough thank you's in the world to let you know how much I appreciate your pointing finger. THANK YOU!

When I get a chance I'd like to put down on paper what I've learned and what sticks in my experience and what doesn't. I'll post it for you here so it is clear where I stand in this vast observation lab. Soo excited!

Sending a telegram with very much ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Thu Mar 01, 2012 12:30 pm

Hi Lucid,
What is sticking and what is not?
Love, Elizabeth

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Thu Mar 01, 2012 11:02 pm

Hi Elizabeth, from what I see, everything sticks and then gets fuzzy the next day or even moments later sometimes. I got some insights today when I asked where "self" was in the body. Felt it in the pit of my stomach so I stayed connected with this to release the tension and then it moved to my arms and hands etc. When it moves it's cause "it" knows I'm after it, it tries to get away by switching places and so I follow it. I saw more of this self and body connection when i got really blissed out the other day and saw how subtle self would take credit for it, and so today, I got the idea of releasing the bliss as well, creating a space around it so it can go as it pleases. I figured if "self"= identifed with bliss/tension, then bliss/tension gone should take "self" along. I trust my instinct and also my experience on this, for years ago I had excruciating pain in the spine and relaxed enough through Reiki to see that the pain was connected to overwhelming guilt. I thought that if I was the one doing this, then I should be the one undoing it. For three days I kept in close contact with every pain and followed it relentlessly till it dissolved completely taking the guilt and what have you with it, and pain or guilt never came back. I'll look again tonight and let you know what I find OK?

Hope you're well! Thank you!

With very much love, Lucid

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 02, 2012 12:09 am

Sounds good. Follow it down again!
And if all you ever find is self in a thought, there will be a nothing.
And that will be interesting :-)
We look at it until there is no one to believe in a you.
So much love, Lucid.


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