Open invitation, reply and we begin

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:01 pm

Went looking, releasing any feeling of elation or "I" as it came. Was laying underneath warm covers and felt like going for a leak. "I" reluctantly thought "I have to go pee" the mind snapped right back "I is just a thought" I went OH SHIT!!! I saw "self" hanging by a thread. Thoughts started rushing in to explain and coach but I could LOOK simultaneously without making a problem about it. :O)

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Fri Mar 02, 2012 9:42 pm

Yup. Having access to both views. Not just the one that says all the thoughts are real. :-)

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:01 pm

All these feelings/density that a 'self' identifies with flare up and then vanish. The illusion of 'self' seems real cause of the tightening the body feels when they come up. When feelings/density go, where is 'self' if not hanging on to a thought? One would expect a 'self' to be somewhat permanent, at least as permanent as the body. Strange to believe in a 'self' at this point. All elements are in place... LOOKING for a spark.

Image

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:49 pm

Ok Lucid, a spark to ignite...what?
Love, Elizabeth.

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sat Mar 03, 2012 11:30 pm

looking for just enough light to see through the 'self' illusion

XOXOXO

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Elizabeth
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby Elizabeth » Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:26 pm

Hi Lucid. What are you not feeling?
Can you examine the experience and tell me if there is a cloudy place where the I feels like more than a sense or a thought?

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sun Mar 04, 2012 9:45 pm

'I' feels like more than a sense or a thought mostly when I gets into action. The body prefers laying down and struggles a bit when it engages into physical activities. My best insights come from crashing on the sofa and looking. When the body moves it gets racing thoughts about the struggle or it tries to avoid feeling it by feeding the mind with any crap. I try and slow down but it often feels like a punishment, the mind gets frustrated and really bored.

We have nice weather tonight so I'll take a walk and try to release the thoughts instead of feelings. Usually when I change the game a bit, it makes it last a while longer. See how it goes...

Love, Lucid

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:47 pm

Have to add I'm feeling really discouraged, and depressed.
Went looking, releasing any feeling of elation or "I" as it came. Was laying underneath warm covers and felt like going for a leak. "I" reluctantly thought "I have to go pee" the mind snapped right back "I is just a thought" I went OH SHIT!!! I saw "self" hanging by a thread. Thoughts started rushing in to explain and coach but I could LOOK simultaneously without making a problem about it. :O) ☼
I don't understand why I didn't get it the other day, clearly no "I" in me had said: "I is just a thought" It just happened spontaneously which surprised me a great deal.

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LucidLizard
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Re: Open invitation, reply and we begin

Postby LucidLizard » Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:27 am

Lucid Lizard
Hi Elizabeth, ready to go...

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Good, have a big pot of tea :-) here

Lucid Lizard
and me water :O)

Elizabeth Whatsleft
How are you today, Johanna?

Lucid Lizard
better... when I saw my pattern yesterday I literally bawled. Then I watched a movie and moved on.

Elizabeth Whatsleft
"Went looking, releasing any feeling of elation or "I" as it came. Was laying underneath warm covers and felt like going for a leak. "I" reluctantly thought "I have to go pee" the mind snapped right back "I is just a thought" I went OH SHIT!!! I saw "self" hanging by a thread. Thoughts started rushing in to explain and coach but I could LOOK simultaneously without making a problem about it. :O) ☼


I don't understand why I didn't get it the other day, clearly no "I" in me had said: "I is just a thought" It just happened spontaneously which surprised me a great deal.""

So you clearly see the I rushing in to reclaim.

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Taking the experience in thought. And also the "Other I" who is commenting on the rushing in to reclaim, still percieved as an I one step reomoved?

Lucid Lizard
I have one of the most stubburn mind I know :O)

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Sorry my typing is awful lately.
From what you say, it appears as if you have an I you watch, and an I to watch the I. Is that so?

Lucid Lizard
I don't know but I would not be surprise to find many inspectors inspecting the next inspector...

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Yes, like Russian dolls. You know the turtle story in Zen?

Lucid Lizard
I feel so well guarded that it's hard to even feel the fears
yes Russian dolls good one had not thought of it

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Who is guarding? Describe this guard, one of the dolls? Who is he guarding?

Lucid Lizard
First name that come to mind is IGOR my subconscious

Elizabeth Whatsleft
LOL, is that like Frankensteins' servant?

Lucid Lizard
hahaha well it told me it's name in a dream once I was disturbing it's program and it did not appreciate
Pronunce it EGOR when I looked into it it turn out to be EGO

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Yes, a programme telling off a programme. That's how it can work, They loop, telling each other they are real. Yet both not found outside of thoughts.

Lucid Lizard
so obvious but i got to give it to this game, for a nobody it certainly has a hell of a gig

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Also, EGO, or personality programme, that seems to be dictated largely by biology, another programme not run by an I. In reality.
More than 50 percent on most traits, like anger, depression...
what do you mean?
not run by an I

Elizabeth Whatsleft
In twins raised apart, they are are found to be almost exactly the same on preferences, down to toothpaste and spousal choice. So, Biology runs us in a very literal way, we jsut call it an I.
Your bird has personaility, but no I. Same thing!

Lucid Lizard
just another false identification

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Sure. You want to set those babies up and we can knock them down?
Next!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
We see if that Russian Doll has a center or is a shell game.

Lucid Lizard
yes! my mind often turns around in circle to outdo me, like I may not get everything you're saying simply cause it tries to compare everything to anything and it takes time, and it's another way to buy time and it's already doing this. But I'll answer any crazy thing that comes to my mind first OK?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
So far we have Egor/Ego, and many different states that have been mistaken for a 'you''s real identity.
What are you really?
Any crazy thing is cool!

Lucid Lizard
I don't know what I am! A bunch of crazy stories

Elizabeth Whatsleft
You betcha. Give me one.

Lucid Lizard
my mind is stunned hehehe nothing and everything comes to mind could you give me a choice of something you might enjoy hearing?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Trauma. Tell me that one.
Tell me why you cannot be revealed.
So many of us hang up here, and some of us have a distinct lack of trust in the world.
What would happen if you let go of the stories and masks.
What is the worst thing I can know about a 'you'.
Mine, dear Lucid, was that I was nothing, pretending.

Lucid Lizard
Good one! when a little girl I got to live with all kinds of people that weren't always nice to me so in order to protect my self I invented this wet suit, three inches thick so they could not get to me. I had it down to every detail and it worked worked worked till I realize I was not getting any love either. I disolved it but the lesson was never forgotten I guess.. just guessing!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Keep going. Good guess.
What were you protecting, little doll?

Lucid Lizard
Love
I swore they would never stop me from loving

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Loving what?
What were they trying to take?

Lucid Lizard
me and the rest of the world. I saw how important that was don't know why I just felt it maybe cause it felt better when I loved
They were trying to trow me into hatred the way they were

Elizabeth Whatsleft
How were they? Describe them.

Lucid Lizard
very frustrated and mean, trying to take away everything I loved
and everyone I loved

Elizabeth Whatsleft
What did you love, Johanna? What was it that you were afraid to lose?
Be specific. Tell them what they did.

Lucid Lizard
my mother and father i was afraid to find that I was responsible for their breaking up so I kept putting up with my father's drunkeness and anything. I could not believe this cause it would have messed me up so bad that i blanked it completely till I was 30 and in therapy where I saw it flatly

Elizabeth Whatsleft
"I am responsible" Johanna.

Lucid Lizard
i don't believe that I am responsible of that anymore. But I see your I there just a thought

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Are you responsible for getting through Gate?
God knows you tried.
And this is making you depressed.

Lucid Lizard
try was all I could do didn't have control

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Yes. No control.

Lucid Lizard
what makes me depressed is that hope fell through the cracks of ever perceiving this

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Couple of things about this process. It's very rational up to a point. Simple observation. Yup, no one in control. And then there is a place where the lack of control is FELT, and a shock.

Lucid Lizard
don't feel a shock can't feel a shock

Elizabeth Whatsleft
That sounds like a prayer.

Lucid Lizard
a prayer?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
That place where you fall, no control, most of us pray not to feel that. An I's job is to keep the feeling that something is in control, keep bad things from happening. Keeps us flinching away, or going around the scary parts.

Lucid Lizard
going around the scary parts yes..

Elizabeth Whatsleft
The story covers up the parts we can't stand.

Lucid Lizard
it is my pattern. I don't feel it right away but I've seen it many times

Elizabeth Whatsleft
You have some stories and a terrible place. I do, many do.
So, this can be done. Just not by the story :-)

Lucid Lizard
OK

Elizabeth Whatsleft
The character, Johanna, has to go. Belief in the characters, the many layers of that illusion, you are pretty much there, that is seen to be constructed.
You can make as many characters as you like, but we have no more I than the bird, who is so alive.

Lucid Lizard
I keep going back and forth between what I've seen with you and the illusion I call reality

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Well, so do I!

Lucid Lizard
so why do I not see a change in perception in my day to day life?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
There is still the narrative and the story comes by and sometimes hooks onto an I thought and so on. Just not real. You know it and I know it.
Think this through, Jo, if there was nothing real, at all, then when you take 0 from reality, nothing changes. Except the belief.

Elizabeth Whatsleft
The central belief has the teeth taken out, and so much changes as that is realized in daily life. I thoughts go through, LOOK, hey, another thought!
All thoughts, all the way down. Unless you find an entity :-)
Literally no one there to snag onto. Each time. Things fall off.
Can you see it is a thought when you look or feel?
No I in "I am responsible".

Lucid Lizard
Can you see it is a thought when you look or feel?
not sure I understand

Elizabeth Whatsleft
You look at any thought that crosses the mind. It has a story about an I.
Is that true, for almost all of them?

Lucid Lizard
yes but what does looking and feel have to do with thoughts?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Little surge of emotional attachement, and a story. Most people call that a belief.
Every time you experience a belief, it's a thought. A thought about a thought.
Check it out.

Lucid Lizard
I am stuck with what you said: Can you see it is a thought when you look or feel?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Do thoughts have an emotional component? Can you think something that makes you mad?
Like, a politician says something very stupid?

Lucid Lizard
yes but why would thought be in the look of feel? Can't I feel or look without a thought attached to it?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Grrr!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Yes. Absolutely. But the reverse often happens. You feel something and go looking for a story to attach to it.
For instance, you wake up in a bad mood, and try to figure out why. Then you have a story.

Lucid Lizard
Ok guess it would be easier to understand if I had your tone of voice with it. Words are not my best way of communication :O) sorry

Elizabeth Whatsleft
No problem, that is a story, too! It's all a story!
Isn't it funny? Tell me one thing that is not a story.

Lucid Lizard
then i'd have nothing to say

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Bingo. Gate is that.

Lucid Lizard
funny I just took a position with my left hand to my mouth and recognized this as when I usually look for a solution to a difficult problem

Elizabeth Whatsleft
No I, no story, nothing to say. Nothing. That's gate.

Lucid Lizard
I also saw the story bout the tone of voice as I was writing it. I see the patterns as they come up

Elizabeth Whatsleft
I is the patterns. That's it.

Lucid Lizard
hahahaha!!! I is the patterns!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
:-)

Lucid Lizard
:O)

my mind keeps wondering if I'm there yet
hehehe
so what now?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Well, this is easy to check out. We'll live with it for a day, OK? And every time a thought says "are we there yet?" check to see if it is a thought. That is a part of a pattern. Apart from the thought, what really is there?
Very simple answer. What is.
Just see if this is so, or voice it differently as you like.

Lucid Lizard
ok this should be interesting... sounds crazy but I can't remember my childhood all of a sudden is that possible?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Sure. Mine is hazy.
Never happened to a me :-)
Only now, unless a reason to remember. Just a story.

Lucid Lizard
Thank you Elizabeth! warm hugs and gratitude. Should I write to you here tomorrow?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Sure. Maybe later in the day? I'll be available around 4 this time, which is 5 your time.

Lucid Lizard
ok I'll go get birdy and enjoy her company for now :O) XOXOXO

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Big hugs :-) Love.

Lucid Lizard
OK Thank you!
XOXOXO

Lucid Lizard
my two hours report: Without thinking I sprang into action and did all the things I usually felt reluctant to do cause of this and that. What I noticed is that the stories about being reluctant and in pain had dropped so I enjoyed doing house work and felt NO PAIN. I feel lighter but going through was even less than hitting a swich to get the light on. The only thing that made me realize I was on the other side of the gate was that my memories had dropped, and my patterns seemed flaky.

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Great! Without a story, life seems different. Doing the dishes without a grumble does not sound really sexy, but quite a few of us notice that! :-)

Lucid Lizard
Felt like an "I" again, was thinking...only stories/thoughts etc. than I saw what stories were about "wanting love/attention/approval. Resisted the urge/pattern to do something "about it"

Elizabeth Whatsleft
How a 'you' is putting itself together. Without the pattern, simple aware-ing.

Lucid Lizard
This morning it is full of questions that were never answered, that I put aside thinking I would bring them up when the time came... guess this time has come. They have to do with beliefs about the Universe and how it all manifested in my life, like clock work. Amazing "stories" of which I'll spare you details but since they create doubts in my mind, and about what you said - that there is no intelligence out there hearing my requests and answering me. This has not been my experience and I need to clarify this if I am to see anything at all. I need to know how you came to this conclusion... I'll write to you at the address you gave me yesterday in case it takes a lot of space. Hope you're not too discouraged with me, but there's no way i'll replace one belief system by another, as we say in Quebec "changer quatre trente sous pour une piastre" :O) Right now I'll go for coffee and tickle birdie.

Very much love to you Sweetie ☺

Elizabeth Whatsleft
It's fine, Johanna, see you at 5 your time if you are up for it. Love to you, also.

Lucid Lizard
:-)

I'm writing it right now I'll post it here possibly see you at 5. Bisous bisous!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
OK, am on a writing binge so am armed and at the computer.
Anytime!

Lucid Lizard
First I want to say I'm aware of how futile this discussion is and has been for the last two months. It is just a program running wild with no one on board to direct it. No purpose other than to let "self" rant till it exausts all its conclusions/questions.
So I say, let it rant!

I started with the fact that it's my experience that every time I opened up and trusted life, plus focussed my awareness on what I wanted, it manifested to the very last detail. Same thing when I closed up and lived in anger and frustrations, all hell broke loose etc. Then I applied what I know about 'no control/no choice' and realized that this awareness/openess was not of my own doing. These very choices were not mine cause I'd have never made it if they were, it was so complicated to pull off, I simply could not have done it had I planned for it. As well, there were times when eventhough I knew all these tricks I just could not apply them, seems I had to stay in the gutter for a while before I could come up again. No control there either.

Saw the following yesterday... Very interesting!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pl ... 6S9OidmNZM

Now, the way I see this is through anything I do in a spaced out way during the day, it gets done without a "me" in it, but I have an indirect access to this sight. In other words it is still in the realm of thoughts/belief for it is seen after what was manifested. Same way I believe in electricity or the wind for their powerful manifesting forces, yet unseen. But, I know it is very real.

Then I said something funny: "the Universe is a thought so can the Universe think? Wait a minute! The Universe is real why did I come to this conclusion? Then I saw that I was referring to the Universe in my mind which is a thought and the Universe manifesting outside of my mind is real. Again, I was caressing that Gate just like some illusive dream I get glimpses of during the day but cannot remember. It just leaves a certain slippery feeling inside. ARRGH!!!!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Hugs, dear Jo. I am off for the evening. Let me know how it is when nothing is there.
Love.

Lucid Lizard
Hi Elizabeth! Oh the freedom of having nothing to choose! saw it this afternoon and though I can see it's only a beginning an a humble one at that, the mind is freer of thoughts

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Ah, lovely. DOING NOTHING with it, I HOPE! ?
LOL. So much love, Jo. Freedom is just ....nothing!

Lucid Lizard
Doing nothing but eat and take shower and go for a walk tonight. Of course I looked a lot right afterwards and saw things I had not seen, mind being bent on choosing for control
Very much love to you Sweet Elizabeth! ♥♥♥

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Welcome home, Johanna. So happy!
Will ask you to write of this tomorrow, but until then, much love and WHAT a ride

Lucid Lizard
hehehe yup! what a ride! Thank you Elizabeth!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Johanna, you did all the work. Thank you

Lucid Lizard
Well MA, you held my hand! Aren't you going to ask me your pesky questions?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Oh, OK, more work?

Lucid Lizard
Well I still have a bit of a self left, I mean thoughts are not so present so self is less, but I feel I have to look more into it. No, no work, just fun!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
I know, Johanna, you have been so close for so long, that it was just sitting here saying something till you popped

Elizabeth Whatsleft
1) How does it feel to be liberated?

2) how would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about no you, if they said they were interested? Please be fulsome

Lucid Lizard
guess this wave had to learn a few things before the eyes opened

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Don't we all. I truly look forward to hearing your answer to the questions, no hurry.

Lucid Lizard
1) Freedom feels like everything is the same, nothing to choose so it is liberating. I saw how the world did not need a me to do anything and it felt quite unevenful to see this. But I cannot see the self is absent, not completely.

2) "no you" feels like thoughts are no longer so sticky and self seems more like a blank. I feel I have preferences, still whatever is there is OK also.

Sherlock will go looking outside in a while and will let you know more tomorrow cause right now doubts are coming in and not sure they'll go quietly. But no worry, I'll let them go like I did everything else. At least I now know how to look and not get impressed by the mind so much as I used to.

See you tomorrow!
XOXOXO

Lucid Lizard
Kept reminding self of the conversations we had and how it felt being on the edge, or in front of nothing and then I felt being pulled into the scene, no longer a spectator.
There was no longer an "I like this and don't like that" it was all the same. I had not seen that it's one of the things that kept me from just being here. I felt a tension and a bit of fear but didn't let the mind make a story about it, kept right on looking. Got insight of an iron as in not caring over what texture, color or material it passes over, whatever is just is.

Lucid Lizard
Also it was easier to go more with looking.. thoughts murmuring in the background. I could switch from one to the other without a fuss from the mind. Almost seemed like "I" had a choice.

Lucid Lizard
"There was no longer an "I like this and don't like that" it was all the same. I had not seen that it's one of the things that kept me from just being here."
AND SEPARATE!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Good! Can you tell me what is an I?

Lucid Lizard
I is what creates the head in a constant and maddening way to hang on to a false identity

Lucid Lizard
it's a desperate attempt to own something that is not.

Lucid Lizard
I is just a thought and thoughts are clouds passing through

Lucid Lizard
Did the exercise of finding the "I" outside of thoughts and saw nothing lol now I SEE IT! I simply had to think to get it back. The body can be mistaken for an I cause it is felt but the body is real while "I" is not, it's only a thought and disapears when awareness is.

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Yup, yup, and Yup!
Let me compile this and put it in a doc so others can see and maybe ask questions. You have been so honest the whole way, Johanna. It's a pleasure.

Lucid Lizard
Thank you Elizabeth! But please tell me, what's next?!?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Well, as far as specifics, we get this doc up, any more clarifying questions are posed and answered, and then we confirm and invite you to a post-Gate facebook group, where everyone is fresh and questions can be easily answered. A group from around the world, all ages and situations. Soft place to land for a while.
My advice would be to just road test this, checking and looking when needed, and be gentle with 'yourself'. No need to make any big decisions and bold moves for a bit.
What's next is also up to how it goes for you, with increasing freedom from belief and patterns.
And lastly, if you would like to guide, that is available to do. People freshly out of Gate do very well with it, another surprising thing.
I am still busy today, but will be available to you as usual if anything comes up, anything at all.
Love! E

Lucid Lizard
Thank you! ♪♫ La vie est belle ma délicieuse Elizabeth!

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Hi Johanna, two people looked at it and am waiting for a third to get a confirmation.
How was today?

Lucid Lizard
the experience seems to be deepening. Got really mad at a neighbor last night lol then went for a walk, looked into it and it appeared like two choices. One I believe the story about it or I simply look and feel blissful. Didn't have to deliberate too long about which choice I prefered. It's like learning to become a kid all over again

Lucid Lizard
Had time to look back on this whole observation and found that I had seen it before, but because of overwhelming circumstances it was brushed off so to speak. What I never mentioned in the following text taken on the forum, was that when I got out of the store, I took one look at the brick wall of the building and there it was, right in my face. Also don't quite know what I was expecting but feel there may have been more "paranormal" in the "me" then I expected...


Open invitation, reply and we begin
by LucidLizard » February 3rd, 2012, 1:43 am

Don't know you tell me. I went to the store two corners away from here (had not gone out in 4 days). Took me 40 minutes to go and back. Wasn't so bad on the way there for I took a long detour (rush hour, less traffic) but when I came back I used the busy street walking at the same pace (REAL SLOW) the whole way. Kept meeting people rushing by. Saw in accelerated what they looked like, what they wore, if they smoked etc. I started to feel kinna weird in the pit of my stomach and kept in contact with that, all the while avoiding looking at cars charging by. I was hearing the sounds and getting a lot of energy. I finally got home in a full fledged fight or flight mode and no joke I almost puked. When nerves receded I burped and that was that. I felt like going to bed, not bad for a lifelong insomniac! I saw how stress kept me from feeling all my life. WOW! I abstained scratching the lottery ticket I got, could've won 4 bucks and have a heart attack! Afterwards I sat and laughed myself to tears. I tell you my bird shows some real concern about me, she's never known me this way. I can hardly wait till tomorrow for I have to go some ways from here to buy some seeds for birdie. Promising adventure... :O)

Have you ever heard of someone laughing their way to enlightenment?

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Yeah, so cool when the problem is seen to be imaginary, happening to an imagined character. What's left when the imaginary is seen? What's always been there, anyway.
Yes, for me, it's either a sort of stunned 'huh, look at that" or a riotous laugh! Life without belief in the story is like being childish again, it's all wonder. I do hope life opens more and more for us all.

Lucid Lizard
Don't know if life can open for all of us, thought about it today and it seemed like it still depends on our pal the Universe to grant more insight. In other words, I don't feel more intelligent now then I did last Sunday morning lol
What would it be for you or how do you envision, to have life open up more?
I like: "when the problem is seen to be imaginary, happening to an imagined character" had not seen it that way. It was more like leaning on the side of feeling good instead of crappy.

Elizabeth Whatsleft
Yeah, I don't feel smarter, in fact, I know a lot less. This is quite humbling And we are about the same age? I felt like a kid, life did open up. Subtle but thrilling access to energy again. The thought of being an old woman, getting older, jsut a thought.
Oh, the last confirm came in, congrats, others were also touched by your seeing this. Would you like to apply to Unleashed, here on Facebook? I will tell Ingen and Ilona to expect you. And then we can all have a chat, doubts, joys, the usual life.
Very happy for 'us' to have 'you'.
Love, E

Lucid Lizard
Thank you! What is the link of Unleashed here? Very much love to you Dear Dear E. XOXOXO


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