Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

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ShamelessLikeTheSun
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Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:21 am

Dear Ilona and Elena, I would very much appreciate guidance with looking and seeing clearly that there is no self. There have been glimpses but I am not sure it is seen clearly, once and for all. I would so appreciate help to see through and I ask for one of you because I just read gateless gatecrashers and if anyone can help with this, you can. Thank you for the book and for this forum. I came here maybe a year ago and got frustrated, thank you vince for your patience back then. I really would like to be in contact with Ilona or Elena but didn't want to be cheeky in asking, incase they were busy, but please, would one of you be able to help this be seen and the searching come to a complete stop. Its consumed everything I don't know what else to do but contact you. Much love and thanks and if you are busy or unavailable I can wait. I can email or speak on Skype or instant message, anything, I really want the seeing to be clear and get on with being for the cure, not the problem. This is my wish. Much love and thanks. Jesaebel x

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 21, 2014 12:54 pm

Hi jesaebel
Thank you for the call.
Yes, we can have a conversation, that would be my pleasure.

Tell me what is it that you are looking for? What do you expect that hold happen? What needs to be different?

Write in full, what feels true.

Kind regards.
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:18 pm

Hello Dear Ilona, first may I please say thank you so much for replying and taking the time to write, I am so very grateful for this communication.
I expect that I will no longer believe in the thoughts, emotions and sensations that arise because it will be seen clearly that there isn't anyone here to have ownership of them. I expect that this self centeredness will drop away and compassion for all will arise in its place, once it is seen that there is no me there to defend or manage. Thank you so much X

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:31 pm

I just wanted to add, I expect that there wont be a self centered program running the show anymore once it is seen that there isn't anyone there who can run things and I expect that life will move through unencumbered and freely, without fear and express itself as it wishes which I imagine to be compassionate and fearless, clear and never lost or feeling separate again. So I have a few expectations there, yes. And I expect that without a me to mess things up, life will know what to do and do it and I expect to help others see this, including a friend who is very ill, I expect that once its seen for myself, It could be shared with others in my life rather than sharing in confusion, clarity, I expect there to be clarity and knowing that is unshakable once seen x

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:39 pm

Ah, I also see an expectation of no longer feeling like I have no purpose, that my lack of purpose is due to my lack of really knowing and in knowing that would be either irrelevant or all-purposeful in and of itself. Basically its this sense of separation and fear that is driving that, I can see that now. The fear is that it wont be seen and that I am trapped as this I, intellectually knowing I am not.

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 1:49 pm

I can also see there is expectation that when its seen clearly that there is no me here there wont be any more holding on to guilt or second guessing life or doubting life, or fearing the changes that come. This may be the greatest expectation. I will keep looking at what comes up

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:09 pm

Good work, let's look closer.

In this moment, right now, as you are reading these words, is there an owner of sensations? Focus on whatever sensations are present, what is that owns them? What is that claims it "mine"? Without a thought, is there an owner at all?

Can you find sensation of separatedness? Where is it? How is it experienced?

Is it possible, that life already knows what to do and things happen as they should, without your general management?
Consider this- presents get under the tree, regardless of what beliefs a kid has, whether he believes in Santa or not. Is it possible, that you are imagining that there is a self, just like a kid imagines Santa?

What feelings come up here?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:26 pm

In this moment, right now, as you are reading these words, is there an owner of sensations? Focus on whatever sensations are present, what is that owns them? What is that claims it "mine"? Without a thought, is there an owner at all?
Without a thought there is just sensations. What claims it as mine feels like contractedness, for example I just got a call and there were lots of heavy sensations that came like a lightning bolt, heavy and full of what I didn't do and should do, guilt. So from that what makes it mine is this feeling of ownership or contraction that I am doing something wrong or I am responsible.
Can you find sensation of separatedness? Where is it? How is it experienced?
Hm, that's a funny one because I cant really find seperateness anywhere, just a contraction that happened or a feeling of things relating to someone, me, but I cant find separation right here, all I can find is a feeling in the body of tightness and discomfort and a label that came up.
Is it possible, that life already knows what to do and things happen as they should, without your general management?
Consider this- presents get under the tree, regardless of what beliefs a kid has, whether he believes in Santa or not. Is it possible, that you are imagining that there is a self, just like a kid imagines Santa?

What feelings come up here?
Yes, it is possible and reading that was a glimmer of relief that that could be so, life already knows what to do a*nd things happen as they should already, that would be such a relief but BUT lol if that were the case...then theres an expectation that life would do a better job and there wouldn't be self identification going on, that seems to ruin things or get in the way. So an expectation there too

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:40 pm

Yeah the only thing there is a sensation, like a heaviness, contractedness and theres been a habit of believing that's who I am, that's mad that to see, I didn't see it like that before but the phone call came just as I was looking as you had asked and that's when the heavy sensation came, lots of stress in it and responsibility and guilt in it but really its not anybodies sensation, its a habit that's been going on a loooooong time, wow, that's great but BUT lol hmm its just a habit isn't it, many times a day there isn't that there at all. something gets triggered - guilt or pride or something usually and hey presto, theres an idea that someone is here as a recipient of whatever is going on. The feelings still here, I was going to say I still feel the feeling...so I must still presume to be someone feeling it, that's a habit too, still, hmmm I wanna say I feel like I am some one but I also see that feelings arise and the habit is there of identifying. Thank you very much for helping with this and for your patience and time. I will keep looking into this further

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 2:50 pm

Is it possible, that life already knows what to do and things happen as they should, without your general management?
Consider this- presents get under the tree, regardless of what beliefs a kid has, whether he believes in Santa or not. Is it possible, that you are imagining that there is a self, just like a kid imagines Santa?

What feelings come up here?
Excitement and relief comes up and then bafflement that it could be that way in the face of what doesn't go as I imagine it should I guess? And that I wouldn't be so self destructive if it were just life happening, but its the idea that I am doing life that is destructive, NOT life already knowing what to do. I never saw things that way before, or if I did it was a brief flash one time and then back to managing again.
*
Yes it is possible that I imagine I am a self and those sensations belong to me, rather than just being what is. So guilt comes but theres no one who is guilty, it just comes up that way with that flavour, or is the flavour also labelled by this referencing? Much love and thanks x

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:07 pm

Your question earlier Ilona, what needs to be different?
That seems to be what its all about, that this cant be it the way it is with these feelings going on and things that happen, what needs to be different, I need to be better, to do better at life and relating to others...that's what needs to be different or maybe others need to be different in order for this me to be okay. So if nothing needs to be different and nothing could be different to begin with and life is already the only thing happening here..its just an idea again that I am managing something called my life and sensations are arising for me, telling me how shitty I am or how great, and that's just a habit. it may feel like it is more than a habit but it is nothing but a habit. Hm taking this intellectually again, but what is happening right now..the cats licking his paws and the suns shining and theres a sensation of tightness, fingers typing and breathing happening, without the habit theres no I. But should there be some sort of seeing?
One time suddenly it was just noticed that seeing this room was happening as if from behind a screen with no glass, the body was sitting back and the whole scene was in this view that kind of looked quite flat and there was no sense of a self, then a thought said this is easy and accessible any time and nothings wrong but after it never happened again. So maybe theres an expectation of seeing from a different perspective or something going on x

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Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 21, 2014 3:52 pm

But should there be some sort of seeing?
There is seeing. It's always on. There is also a belief, that something should be seen differently.
Look around the room, notice what is here, shapes, colours, movement. This is what is being seen, right now.

Close your eyes after doing this and visualise the room in your mind. Look around, notice objects, go to a wall and touch it. See how hard it is.

Open your eyes, did anything happen?
Stand up and go to the wall, touch it.

Can you see the difference between what is experienced in imagination and what is experienced in actuality? Describe the difference.

Can you touch a me, I, separate self, same way as you touched the wall?
Can you see a me with eyes same as you see the wall?

How do you know, that it is there?
Have fun with this.
Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:04 pm

I am having trouble visualizing the room but I can touch the wall here and it is something solid and reliable yes but I cannot do that with the self, there is a body here but the body is body, its not the self that feels responsible etc. true. I cant touch a self, there's only sensations and labelling that arises for sensations but there is no self touch-able anywhere. I cant see a self with the eyes either, nope. What is seen right now is colours and shapes yes and there are sounds and movement but I cant see a self, I can see a body and hands typing away but theres no self that can be seen like the laptop can be seen or touched like the wall can be touched

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Re: Please Ilina or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby Ilona » Tue Jan 21, 2014 4:38 pm

So what is that word I points to?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Please Ilona or Elena, I would very much appreciate help

Postby ShamelessLikeTheSun » Tue Jan 21, 2014 5:42 pm

So what is that word I points to?
A belief


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