Ilona, will you be my guide please?

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Ilona
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:54 am

Let's dig a bit around this
Think the expectations at this point have been that the feeling of seeing that there is no self would be stronger and lot more pervasive within me.
Feeling of seeing? Looks like you are looking for a state, something that gives you a feeling. But recognition is not a state, it does not come and go like any feelings. Once it's recognised, it can not be unrecognised. It can be forgotten, but, if you look, you will always see the pattern.

When you look with eyes, (not thinking, but looking) can you see something that isn't here? Can you see that which does not exist? Can you see imaginary stuff in front of you?
There is a difference between looking with eyes at what is here, what IS, and looking with mind and seeing images.

No self can not be seen, there is nothing to see. What you see is what is.
It's not like you start seeing no-self, like a new thing. When kid realises that there is no Santa in real life, he does not start seeing no-Santa. It's just like that, no self= no more belief in imaginary entity.

And what is the I that is trying to keep no self in mind as along as it can?
Is there I that can do that, chooses to do that?


Sending love
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Heartie
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Heartie » Wed Dec 18, 2013 3:18 am

Thank you Ilona.
“Looks like you are looking for a state, something that gives you a feeling. But recognition is not a state, it does not come and go like any feelings. Once it's recognised, it can not be unrecognised. It can be forgotten, but, if you look, you will always see the pattern.”
Yes, you explain this so clearly. There were expectations here of something of a feeling, like when you know something is true with your whole being.
“When kid realises that there is no Santa in real life, he does not start seeing no-Santa. It's just like that, no self= no more belief in imaginary entity.“
I have been making it far too complicated. It is really quite simple when you explain it this way.
“And what is the I that is trying to keep no self in mind as along as it can? Is there I that can do that, chooses to do that?”
No there is no “I” that can do that. I didn’t explain it very well but referring to your text ‘Once it's recognised, it can not be unrecognised. It can be forgotten, but, if you look, you will always see the pattern”; it is more like this - forgetting and then looking to see the pattern again.

Much Love

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Ilona
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Ilona » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:27 am

Is there any doubt left?
What is different since we started this conversation?
What hasn't changed?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Heartie » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:18 am

Thank you Ilona.
“Is there any doubt left?”
If there is any it has yet to reveal itself. Time will tell.
“What is different since we started this conversation?”
I can say that I understand more that there cannot be a separate self through self-inquiry than I did before. Writing more has helped to sort my thoughts on the subject and to unravel the knots.
“What hasn't changed?”
Everything is about the same as before, perhaps a bit less angst at worrying situations.

Much Love

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Ilona
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Ilona » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:23 am

Great. So are you ready for the final questions? If not, what would you like to address, what is not clear?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Heartie » Fri Dec 20, 2013 2:22 am

Thank you for all your time and effort with this conversation.
“So are you ready for the final questions? If not, what would you like to address, what is not clear?”
Okay, I will try the final questions. I suppose my answers will throw light on anything that may not be clear to me.

Not feeling well at the moment so may be a day or two before I get back to you, if that’s okay with you.

Much Love

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Ilona
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Ilona » Sat Dec 21, 2013 8:48 am

Hi heartie,

How are you doing? Hope you are feeling well.
Sometimes this process comes with purging, body gets some flu like symptoms, burning sensations, it's part of process of clearing up.

When ready, please answer these questions.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

6) Anything to add?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Heartie
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Heartie » Sun Dec 22, 2013 1:23 am

Hi Ilona,
“How are you doing? Hope you are feeling well.
Sometimes this process comes with purging, body gets some flu like symptoms, burning sensations, it's part of process of clearing up.”
Yes symptoms are flue like, feel feverish, headache etc. I am feeling a bit better now though, thanks for asking.

Thanks for sending me the questions; I will answer them as soon as I can think more clearly – head still feels fuzzy.

Much Love.

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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Heartie » Fri Dec 27, 2013 6:22 pm

Hi Ilona,

Here are my answers to the questions. Sorry for the delay.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

There is no separate self, ‘me’ or ‘I’, at all, anywhere, in any shape or form. There never was one to start with.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of the separate self is that there is an “I” that each person has that has its own identity and that it is unique and different from another persons self.

In my experience It starts when we are children and learn to communicate. We learn that we are separate from other people. The way we use language also reinforces the concept of a separate self. As we grow up the “I” starts to acquire characteristics and labels. We are different from others; better or worse, smart, not as smart as someone else and feel that we have to protect ourselves, reinforcing the idea of self more and more that we have a separate self that needs nurturing, reinforcing and protecting etc.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels like OMG how could I have been so wrong to believe that there is a separate self. Before I started this dialogue, I understood that there is no self but had expectations that I should have deeper feelings about knowing this truth but now realize that there don’t have to be any fireworks etc., seeing the truth is enough.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

The Santa analogy helped. Just like no longer believing in Santa once we are told it is only imaginary, it is the same with the illusionary self; it does not exist so stop believing that there is a personal self.

4) Do you decide, intend, choose, control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

There is no “I” to decide, intend, choose or control events in life. You do not make anything happen, everything that happens is just happening.

For example, thoughts just come and go randomly in my mind. The more I try to stop them, the stronger they seem to become somehow. I like foods that I do, even the ones that are not good for me, I would not ‘choose’ to like. Things just happen in life, even when I only aim for good things, bad ones happen as well. It is like life is happening to or through you.

5) Anything to add?

Just that I am so grateful to you Ilona for your time, effort and patience and greatly admire the work that you and the other guides are doing on this forum. Thank you.

Much Love.

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Ilona
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Ilona » Sat Dec 28, 2013 8:15 am

Hi heartie.
Hope you are feeling well again.

Thank you for answers, great to hear that Santa came along this festive season and helped you realise the illusion of separation :)

You said
Things just happen in life, even when I only aim for good things, bad ones happen as well. It is like life is happening to or through you.
Can you elaborate, what is that life is happening to or through? Or it's just language thing, trying to explain the unexplainable. Is there someone that life is happening to? What is it?

Sending love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Heartie
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Heartie » Sat Dec 28, 2013 3:07 pm

Hi Ilona,

Yes feeling a lot better now, thank you.
great to hear that Santa came along this festive season and helped you realise the illusion of separation :)
Hohoho, it is funny and ironic that it is around Xmas time!
Can you elaborate, what is that life is happening to or through? Or it's just language thing, trying to explain the unexplainable. Is there someone that life is happening to? What is it?
You are spot on again - it is trying to explain the unexplainable,so best left alone.

There is no one life is happening to, as there is no self, or any agent anyway. life is just happening.

Thanks and Much Love.

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Ilona
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Re: Ilona, will you be my guide please?

Postby Ilona » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:25 pm

Lovely answer! Yey!
Wishing you happy new year!
Welcome home....

Much love.
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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