I would like some help please

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Robin.
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I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:50 am

Hello. Robin is my real name. I have been a seeker for as long as I can remember. I have had many weird experiences since being very young. I am able to tell the same stories as a lot of people have done here. The stories are more of the drama's you will have heard again, and again. Sad tales of woe that have no bearing on what I am actually looking for. I am a recovering alcoholic. This came about as a result in trying to cope with depression, and many phobia's, including agoraphobia. This came to a head 10 years ago when I was forced to have my last drink due to liver, and kidney problems. This was a blessing as alcohol was making my problems worse. I am not nearly so bad now, although I do take regular meds.

I have followed none duality for a couple of years or more now. I have read Eckart Tolle, Tony Parsons. I follow Mooji, Gangaji, Richard Sylvester, et al, to name but a few.

I understand the intellectual concept of there being no one writing this letter, to no one. But as yet, I have not experienced that slight change in perception, and the so called feeling of absolute oneness with all and everything, that these people mention. The falling away of the ego, and even the physical body as some have done.

I am not expecting a fanfare of trumpets, and all my worries to be over with. But I can't say I notice anything different. I do keep reaffirming to myself that "I" don't exist. But whenever I meditate upon this and try to explore things further. I simply feel anxiety, and a knot in my stomach. I associate these feelings with the onset of a panic attack. This is self evident as I have suffered thousands of these for years, each one making me feel as if I am about to die. After saying that. I don't feel as bad as that anymore, though anxiety is still unpleasant.

I have also read many of the liberation testimonies here, and to be honest. I don't see the reward of being liberated in some. I don't know if I am missing some point. But I would like to know what advantage it is to know that we don't exist as such. I agree completely that we are all just a simple human programme that started to be writen around 2 years of age. before then we were simple, pure, empty, conscioussness. I simply cannot realise myself as being that, ????????? watcher behind the "Iam"

Can someone help me to understand better?

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vinceschubert
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:14 am

Hi Robin, vince here...
i can give you nothing, but i can guide you to realise for yourself.
i require two commitments from you;
1. that you will be 100% honest with me and yourself. &
2. that you post at least once every day.
Do you agree with this ?

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Robin.
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:36 am

Yes I agree to your criteria. I will do my best to be 100% honest and post daily.

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vinceschubert
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:48 am

I have followed none duality for a couple of years or more now. I have read Eckart Tolle, Tony Parsons. I follow Mooji, Gangaji, Richard Sylvester, et al, to name but a few.
These people will have different value for you after you have passed through the gate, but for now just put aside everything you have read or heard.
This process is about experience, not knowledge.
I do keep reaffirming to myself that "I" don't exist.
Don't reaffirm anything.
Can you see the paradox of an I saying "I don't exist" ?
I am not expecting a fanfare of trumpets
You say you are not expecting something.
Look now and tell me if you can find anything you Do expect...

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Robin.
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:23 pm

Don't reaffirm anything.
Can you see the paradox of an I saying "I don't exist" ?
Ha ha! Yes indeed I can. How ridiculous now you point this out.
You say you are not expecting something.
Look now and tell me if you can find anything you Do expect..
I think I am expecting to feel an expansion as others have all testified to feeling. A sense of no-thing, and yet everything all at the same time. Some people have even described a sense of turning over in bed and not seeing an arm straightening the duvet. Now this does sound dramatic, but the person I am quoting seems a genuine person. Very actively involved with None duality north, here in Yorkshire.

I must admit to thinking many years ago how wonderful enlightenment would be. All the liberated people who have spoken about "Their enlightenment" Describe it to be a simple affair, and available to all without the help from many years of devotion to a guru. I am expecting to feel something akin to what I have read from others. As things are I feel nothing other than what I have said.

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vinceschubert
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:54 pm

The variety of experiencing is as varied as much as people vary.
Everything that has happened to during your entire lifetime has contributed to bring you to this point.
It is absolutely unique, as will be your path through the gate.
For the moment, don't consider the content of your expectations, just Look and see if you can see where the expectation originates.
Where does it arise from ?
Is there a You giving birth to these expectations ?

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Robin.
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:00 pm

Where does it arise from ?
Is there a You giving birth to these expectations ?
Well Vince. I've thought hard about this one so as to keep absolutely truthful as I can be.

The expectations arise from what is my ego I believe.
There is no me requiring anything. Yet after saying this, the people that have stimulated, and informed me that liberation is a choice apparently experienced as a shift in consciousness, that cannot be described. They all say once seen, you will never be the same again. That there is no going back, once the realisation is experienced. And yet there is also no one relaying this information to no one.

Whatever this liberation/ enlightenment is. This no one referred to as Robin would also like it. If this request is from my egoic self. I still want it. But at the same time I would like my ego bi-passed, if not destroyed altogether. I do realise that it is this construct in me that has created all my suffering.

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vinceschubert
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby vinceschubert » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:19 pm

I've thought hard about this one
Whoa Robin !!
You missed completely what was asked...
just Look and see if you can see where the expectation originates.
Where does it arise from ?
Is there a You giving birth to these expectations ?
i call that mind fuck.
Robin, The sense of I is established and maintained be what we tell ourselves, constantly, relentlessly and we listen to the content of it and get completely sucked in.
Ignore the content for the moment and LOOK for the source of the thoughts called expectation.
JUST LOOK. Don't think, or rather ignore the content.
SEE if you can recognise a 'you' at their source.

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Robin.
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:06 am

Ignore the content for the moment and LOOK for the source of the thoughts called expectation.
JUST LOOK. Don't think, or rather ignore the content.
SEE if you can recognise a 'you' at their source.
The source that holds the expectation belongs to the Robin who doesn't exist. When I look hard for where this thought arises, It is within the ego of someone who I agree, doesn't exist.
The confusion for me comes in when I read about the experiences of those liberated. If they are liberated, and/or, enlightened. who is it who is relating "their" experience ? All I can imagine, is that it must be the all encompassing overseer of everything that is. Using, Tony Parsons, for example. Tony Parsons None existent body/ego.

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vinceschubert
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:33 am

The source that holds the expectation belongs to
Robin, DON'T talk ABOUT anything.
It is within the ego
Oh, so you can SEE a thing called ego, can you ?
Using, Tony Parsons
We are not interested in second hand knowledge.
Consider yourself hit with the zen stick (or had your face slapped that makes it easier to feel jolted)

Now in a gentler tone...
Robin, you are obviously very conditioned (habit) to intellectualise (probably) everything.
To get past your mind (thoughts) it is necessary for you to see a thought without being sucked into it's content.
An exercise...
Picture a zebra.
Now do it again and see if you can see the image without thinking the word 'zebra'
Now look at something in your field of vision and notice if you verbally (with thought) label it...
Don't judge, just notice.
Do this before reading on.....





Now pick something else and notice from where the thought emerges.
Tell me what you noticed. (not about it)

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Robin.
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:06 am

Now pick something else and notice from where the thought emerges.
Tell me what you noticed. (not about it)
Sorry Vince. I am totally conditioned. Beating taken.

When I think of anything. I summon up a mental image that carries a label that I have by Conditioning, and repetition attached to it. I tried to look at the Zebra without giving it it's usual label and found it very hard. My brain wants to try even harder to name what I am looking at. All thoughts are manifested in my minds eye, and emerge from there.

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vinceschubert
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:20 am

No need to be sorry. The beating wasn't punishment, just calling your attention to an ingrained habit.
When I think of anything. I summon up a mental image that carries a label that I have by Conditioning, and repetition attached to it. I tried to look at the Zebra without giving it it's usual label and found it very hard.
This is good. You see a process. Very good.
Seeing the difficulty... very good. Your not sucked into the content. That is a major step.
All thoughts are manifested in my minds eye
Then you fall back into conceptualisation.
What is your 'minds eye' ?
Is it an idea ?
Tell me what you noticed. (not about it)

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Robin.
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:26 am

What is your 'minds eye' ?
It's an image with a label attached

Is it an idea ?
It is an idea. Everything starts as an idea. I then take the idea and give it life, or ignore it and it fades.

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vinceschubert
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby vinceschubert » Sat Dec 17, 2011 10:53 am

Excellent, so look and tell where do you see the ideas coming from. (no intellectualisation - just experience please)

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Robin.
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Re: I would like some help please

Postby Robin. » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:09 am

Excellent, so look and tell where do you see the ideas coming from. (no intellectualisation - just experience please)
Idea's seem to come out of nowhere. They feel as if they are within my head, and what I have been conditioned to believe is my brain producing them. But there isn't a storehouse. They just appear, and disappear just as quickly. They appear only if I think them into existence. I can exchange one idea for another which I give more attention to. Of course memory can reproduce an idea I have had before. But they are all only thoughts.


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