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Elena & K.I.G.

Posted: Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:31 am
by nenad

I will give you 5 questions to answer and we will see what’s comes up...Hoy


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?


2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion starts as others introduced me to "this world" giving me a name, teaching me to talk... there it all started, with language... labeling everything worth knowing in order to fit in, in order to be one with the flock. Necessary to be loved, accepted, included, seen, counted on, recognized... in order to survive.

As a child this game is immediately seen and the rules are interiorized... The body is given the greatest importance. It is beautiful, innocent, and totally dependent. And it is there to be just as the family want's the baby to be: cute, looks just like father, mother, grandmother... everybody want the baby to look like them. Grandmother claims it looks like her, the eyes and its color, form, etc., run in the family. The mother claims the mouth and color of the eyes come from her and her sister... Then comes the character, personality: just as the father, you know, follow the example, good or bad, but bad is always reprehended, even though parents and family fall into “bad behavior” themselves. So these are ways to please their progenitors. I started feeling feelings of pride, fear, shame, confusion, anger, sadness, happiness, jealousy, joyfulness, etc. ... about them and myself, but I had to imitate, pretend, in order to get what I wanted, needed and loved to have, for good or for bad. It felt as survival in one piece… survival, meaning a feeling of I had it together, I had it all, or didn’t… which would bring another whole set of feelings, which would set me in a different scenario, which would bring a different set of thoughts and desires and strategic ways of getting it.

And that’s it!!! There it is, the platform to believe I, me, mine, is what I am. What defines me. Then I live up to my image or not, and feel good or bad about it. Always gets complicated because others have their own image of me, which has also to be met… Then being rebellious seems to be the only way out in order to prove myself that I am me and not what others want me to be… and feeling satisfied or frustrated because I don’t reach this goal… it is unreachable anyways because it doesn’t exist, the illusory me made up of stories, labels, opinions, thoughts. Might seem sometimes that I got it, but then others appear and the state is of constant anxiety and turmoil to get whatever has appeared in the scenario surrounding me, or the one I have in my mind, or think it is in other’s minds. An eternal coming back to defend and attack, (attack being a defense and, defense becoming an attack), created a vicious circle, which is HELL. I is HELL because it is unsatisfying, unsatisfiable, it is exhausting, absurd, and keeps the show going on, in a “cule de sac” way… there is no way out in this dimension or state of things. It is a “mélange” of the projections of all the minds past, present and future… All of them thinking theirs are the right, correct, best, good things to do, or be, or think. End result: HELL! WAR! Because here I am and, the world is there and, they are out to get me… well sometimes, but mind is very schizophrenic

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels to be a description of what is being seen. There is no passion about it as I write about it. It feels as a description of what is seen. I feel detached, or out of the story, as I am telling it now. Never the less I have felt in the past few days, as if I don’t belong to the drama, even though I get dramatic sometimes… a constant checking out: I am not that or this. This is not what I am taking this to be. This is not real really. This is the predictable result of the illusion played by and believed by us humans, K.I.G. I see the dramatic response of others, loved ones, and I get a feeling of surprise and worry but at the same time, it feels so unnecessary and sad, to watch unhappiness being created by the illusion as it is believed to be real. Even myself forgetting it and giving way to habit of reaction. In spite of it all, being aware of this habit, gives way to compassion braking in and softening up the tension created over illusion.

I don’t feel much difference to what I felt before this dialogue in a way. In another way, like just before I met you this time, I am kind of desperate. Like an undercurrent of desperation… This feeling is manifested in being cynical (distrustful of human nature, sarcastic, according to dictionary), as a way of disguise or reaction in the face of the terror and anger of the fall of the “empire”, of the destruction of the illusion, or better to say, of the understanding of what is really, what I thought was, which is not what I thought… in fact it isn’t, never existed!!! And, what is left is not knowing at all, and the sense of having been “wrong” in every way even when I gave my passion to what I thought, defended what I thought was real with all kinds of arguments that felt true and real. Fought for “good causes”, gave my sweat and blood to them for what? For an illusion that is precisely that, an illusion, never existed, it was an imaginary construction, just imagined, but fake, not real!!!

So, I am having trouble to find meaning in whatever I do or want to do, because, why bother? I THINK THIS IS THE THING MY MIND IN HOLDING ONTO NOW: WHY BOTHER? What feels real now is the lack of motivation or drive to do, achieve, long for (at the end is the fake identity that longs for. It is a thought that provokes a feeling of wanting oneness, truth, coming back home).

I have been tormenting myself fearful and angry because of this lack of “joie de vivre”. I have abandoned good care of my body, of my appearance, not that it ever meant a lot (because I was young and beautiful, ja!). I have abandoned everything in a way because it lost meaning, even though I still am engage in “life” as I have always had, but with a disillusionment hovering over life. As I thought it was, as I know it isn’t, and as I don’t know it is… maybe glances?

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Well, what you told me to look for… I can’t even remember the exact way you did it, or the exact words you used to point to what you wanted me to see… but It was a place I had known before, where I am face to face to the fact that I don’t know who I am. I get that I am not what I thought I was… I loose the identity to K.I.G. and all it means, to the fact that I am free falling into an abyss of not knowing anything.

After, I feel kind of lost, disoriented, and this is the feeling I had when I met you that night.

This “place” that I have experienced many times, which is blissful in the sense that it feels free of meaning or weight of any kind, goes away, and then I am left in a world of which I am feeling even angry at, because it is “nothing”, but it is the place I have to live and survive in. This feeling is paradoxical to the feeling of lightness I feel because of the fact that “things of this world” have lost importance… but this importance is also relative… for instance I am probably going to work for the first time not independently. The opportunity presented to me and I have been invited to join a group of people who are after money, the same as I will, because I have to do something… not that I don’t have an income from properties I have, but it is not enough… I have rented 3 properties, and simplified my life in some ways, but anyway I have to do something, and this invitation seems to be a good one to make money and do something for some time. At the same time, it is the FIRST invitation “I have in many years”, because “I was always gone my way”… “The spiritual way”… until 10 years ago, when “I started to make money” and bought property, taking advantage of the world inmobiliary boom…(which is over). This opportunities appeared because “I decided to quit” 25 years of being a “healer”, body-worker, nutrition advisor, bla, bla, bla. Even though “I was a good one”… but “I got tired”. It was a good change because “I had been established for too long” in a role that became convenient and boring because of that.

5) Do you decide, intend, choose, and control events in Life? Do you make anything happen? Give examples from your experience.

Before I ended answering the former question I read this question and I started to write between quotes what was appropriate, because I have always felt that it is not coming from myself, but that I am being lived, so… that doesn’t mean that my mind doesn’t struggle as a torturer judge and an implacable critic, mainly trying to convince myself of not being satisfied with what my life has become… meaning that I have lost control, aggravated by the fact that I am alone after many years of a stagnant relationship, after the death of my father, after the greediness of my younger brother in pursuit of my father’s and mother’s (still alive) inheritance and custody. He doesn’t let us (my older brother and me) see her. He took her to live in his house, and he has behave as her captor, bla bla bla… after being on a brink of entering the “third age”, after being disillusioned, after braking the bone in my foot… bla bla bla

So, it seems “I was always going my way”, “I started to make money”, “I decided to quit”, “I got tired”, “I had been established for too long”…

So it seems I do have control, have decided, have done, have thought, and it seems I can keep on having that power… you know, change my diet in order to feel healthier, do exercise, meditate, work with this new group with a better attitude and gratefulness towards the invitation that is presenting to me, so I have money, so I have an opportunity to work with others and not “make my will be the winner in all the options”, “learn to let go”, “to not win all the arguments”, “to not prevail…” (When working always alone, it was my will and nobody else’s… ha! you see? Mind believes it is its will that comes forth, and makes things happen, ha!) Question answered

6) Anything to add?

Gonzalo sent this extract from Ramesh Balsekar.

“A human being, tortured by lust, ambition, competitive conflicts, cannot achieve the peace and tranquility that is sought, whatever "spiritual" path he is advised to follow. The only way peace and tranquility can happen is when the mind is stilled at its very source, when there is the realization that the entire manifestation and its functioning - life as we know it - is an illusion based on an earlier illusion of space and time. If space-time itself is non-existent, being only a concept, how can the manifestation, and a part of it - an object called a human being with its sense of personal doer ship, is anything but an illusion, maya, and a divine hypnosis?
It is only this deep apperception which can result in a really still mind, a silent mind, which itself is the peace that is sought after so avidly.”

This gives me the clarity to know that my mind is still engaged into this space-time illusion, maya, mirage… what to do? I have been told in many ways by many teachers, masters, awakened ones… It seems I haven’t got the guts… and what it takes… total commitment and willingness, motivated by a longing strong enough to surrender myself completely to truth!

The night I met you, the following happened: “The only way peace and tranquility can happen is when the mind is stilled at its very source, when there is the realization that the entire manifestation and its functioning - life as we know it - is an illusion based on an earlier illusion of space and time”. Well what “I realized”, or what was seen was that I am not, and that felt as a soap bubble exploding and left behind… what? Nothing! The cosmic joke… laughter!!!

That, that was seen, felt, experienced, realized, laugh at, went where??????... Mind is still unnecessarily active, and viciously doubtful and sarcastic and cynical… at the end: angry and fearful.
I see now that I am condemning the human nature thinking in this cynical way about everything!
Anger of not being able to retain it, fear of not making it permanently. Fear of being ashtray, of having lost my way, or “the way”…
Reading this last paragraphs, I see the mind doing its thing, and nothing else… Just bull shit!
Thank you Elena for being there sharing and showing the way!!


I feel I am emboydying the paradox that ALL IS, and I get dizzy and feel stuck. I feel like not wanting to do anything, but it doesn't feel right either... It feels like I have lost the map... things happen because they happen, but if I feel like not wanting to do anything, things happen without my intervention, but without structure as well, then I don't eat well, within good hours, things are not done, I might not get a shower for 2 days and use the same cloths for 2 days. No structure... this is why I want to take the job, to see if I am motivated to wake up and move towards a goal and feel I am part of life... This that I just wrote sounds so paradoxical!!! Oh my god!!! I really don't care about being part of life in this way... It really feels I have lost the map... I do want to do things but for that I need money. For instance, go learn to use the healing bowls. I have a place and teacher I would like to meet. Another thing that seems to interest me is: go to Australia to receive a 10 week training to make FOODFORESTS. This has a resonance within For that, money is needed. Have to produce it... that's it. That is the way it works... I know that by experience... STOP!!! I I I I I I I I I me me me me me my my my my my. I know, I have, I did, I think, my experience, my feeling... @#$&%@(*. I don't know where to go anymore, what to do, who am I. The spiritual path, the healer role, are gone... Macrobiotics. veganism, rawism, yoga, meditation... are gone.........................................