A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

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Lib
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A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:24 pm

Ilona, I started with you by email and am switching to the forum. I have been a frog in the cooking pot for a long time. The heat has been rising slow and steady but this frog doesn't know what stage of doneness she's at. At times the Great Chef gives a poke and sends quite a shiver down the frog's spine but still this frog is confused...however enjoying the spa. Seems like one would know when one is cooked. Could we please start fresh and new from cold-water and proceed with a good thermometer to let this frog know when she can get out of the pot? Thank you so so so much.

Lib
The frog.

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Ilona
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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:25 pm

Hey, Lib.
nice intro. let's cook that frog, hehe.
do you exist?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Lib
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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Mon Nov 21, 2011 11:48 pm

Yea! Iona. Happiness.

Do I exist?

No. So they say.

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A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:42 am

Hm. So they say? How about you, what do you see? Is there a you in any shape or form in reality?
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:07 pm

When I stop to look there is no "me." It seems that stopping is necessary. If I stop and say the word "I" there is a momentary brain freeze and a thoughtless, spacious peace that could last forever. Then thought slowly arises and some attachment to thought and then life is happening again unnoticed.

The body is seen spontaneously doing it's thing. We are conditioned little frogs for sure. Repeating things over and over from some ancient, distant trigger. When that happens, when it is seen that the body is responding to these triggers on it's own then it obvious there is no controller there of what the body does. Again, some stopping and looking must occur, and then the mind attaches again to a story. And this is noticed too, how attention is moved to and from a story.

There is much potential for fearful stories to arise here. My boyfriend has advanced throat cancer. He talks about going to Oregon to "eat the pudding." We have borrowed from the house to pay for treatments and could lose the house. And lose our ability to pay for treatments. I hope to dialogue until there is no "I" to claim possession of these experiences. Such a opportunity here, Ilona.

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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 23, 2011 1:18 pm

Hi Lib,

i'm really sory to hear about your boyfriends condition. i sincerely wish it will get sorted and he will get better.
I hope to dialogue until there is no "I" to claim possession of these experiences.
It's not how it works. seeing through illusion does not change anything, problems do not dissapear and people do not change. it's not that i stops to claim experiences, is seeing that all that is, including 'I' claiming experiences is part of experience. it claims experience until it doesn't, seeing through illusion makes a hole in the bubble, but it does not stop i thought, not at all. it's only a begining of integration and deprograming of the mind. which takes different time for different people.

it's not all love and peace, it's not a state, but knowing, that there is nothing separate, nothing outside experience and there is no separate entity/ being behind word 'me'.

can you say, that you have seen through the illusion? honestly, please.
Truth realized will set you free.
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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:59 pm

No, I have not clearly seen through the illusion, at least not enough for it to stick. There have some remarkable breakthroughs of seeing what this is about...but not to the point of clarity to talk about it. I have been in a place where thoughts appeared one after another and they were all seen as false and popped one by one like balloons and then peace which carried on for weeks or months. It has happened about three times with teachers or practices. Unitive experiences, overall less reactive, depression rarely occurs, uncaused joy that arises many nights right before I go to sleep...definitely positive and seemingly permanent changes. I know what to "do" when an external problem occurs (stop, full stop, and get present..that is, take a short moment of awareness). Stopping reminds me that there is only "this." I have looked for the "I" and not found it. But I have to keep coming back to remind myself, it is not automatic. And there is sense that it is not finished.

There is an expectation about awakening that there should be a clear seeing that there is no me in the picture in a rather other-worldly type experience. I know that in awakening everything arises and one simply no longer attaches to a thought. This, it would seem, would be totally automatic, that all thoughts are seen through every time they arise. That is not the case here. The best I can say is that when at some point attachment to thoughts reaches a point of early suffering, it does trigger a red-flag response to stop and look at this. That is as automatic as it gets.
And worse, I have become somewhat addicted to reading bad economic news and trying to plan my external circumstances instead of just allowing life to unfold with trust.

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A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 23, 2011 6:46 pm

You expect something to happen as an overwordly experience? Ha, this is magical thinking.
Everything already is as it is. There is nothing else, just this. Including the thoughts that are passing by and thoughts that say 'oh, I is attached to that'
Is there something that those thoughts arise to? A thinker? A watcher? A judge? What is that I refer to, when 'identification happens' and wanting to change what is comes?

It's not what you expect, at all.
Leave your expectations right here and take a fresh look:

What is?
What isn't.

Real is, unreal, not true, fantasy, isn't. All just thoughts.

Now look around and see how different labels appear when you look around the room. These labels point to real.

Look at label batman, it represents something, it's a symbol, a word that we say and we know what you are talking about. That word is an agreement.
Word me is also an agreement. This label is used to point at this body and experience, it is a central word in the story.

Now you can see the body in the room, right, it is.
And can you see a batman? How do you know it's not here without even looking?
Because you know it's not real, right?
So in order to see if you are real, why do you even look?
is there anyone doing looking?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:33 pm

I think I need Forum writing 101. I don't see how to quote you or to get back to your post without losing my draft. I tried to save a draft but now I can't find it anywhere. Tried to copy your whole post in here but would only take part. Tried putting in [*] before and after a sentence but it didn't change in the preview. Are there directions for all of this somewhere on the site?

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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Wed Nov 23, 2011 8:43 pm

Hmm, the only way I can see to do this copy a few sentences, respond and send and then do it again as another post.


This is good, by the way, what I am here for.

Is there something that those thoughts arise to? A thinker? A watcher? A judge? What is that I refer to, when 'identification happens' and wanting to change what is comes?

There is a noticing, but not a notice-er. Just thoughts arising until the assumed entity takes possession of the thought and tries to change it in someway.

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Lib
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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Wed Nov 23, 2011 9:03 pm

I am not quite seeing this. The body is an apperance in awareness. It is like any other appearance...just "what is" until it is given a label. Batman is a only a thought with a label. I am the thought "I" when labeled. Before the label of "I" there is no thing. One keeps looking only to verify that there is no one there. There is looking happening, but no one looking.


Now you can see the body in the room, right, it is.
And can you see a batman? How do you know it's not here without even looking?
Because you know it's not real, right?
So in order to see if you are real, why do you even look?
is there anyone doing looking?

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Ilona
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A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Wed Nov 23, 2011 10:24 pm

Funny thing, you are seeing it. Only for some reason still refuse to accept it as this.

It is that simple.
Ask yourself, what is wrong with now?
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com

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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 24, 2011 5:31 pm

how does assumed identity arise, isn't that just another thought passing by?

( when you want to quote, copy the sentence and press 'quote' button where you are typing the message, it is on the line above fourth button from the left. then paste the line in between. )
Truth realized will set you free.
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Lib
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Re: A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Lib » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:02 pm

Ilona,
Sorry! I have been waiting for a response and....heloooo....didn't notice it had moved to a second page.
I am quite forum-posting illiterate. Have to ask. Where in the *bleep* can I find my saved draft? Have looked all over the site. Also, How do I keep my written from disappearing when I want to go back and look at a question you may have asked?

You know, you are right that I see what you've asked. I think I believe I should be "laughing out loud" to have "really" seen it.

I can see that there is never anything wrong with right now. I stop and see that life is arising to no one and even that there is only "this." And yet there is addiction to conspiracy/economic news on the computer, and sometimes reaction to that, there is fear that arises re current circumstances but I usually can stop and see it as arising thought as well as the energy attached to it. But the character I am watching doesn't seem as clear as she can be, and she gets rather tongued tied verbally when trying to explain non-duality. And it seems there should be a bit more un-ordinariness with all of this ordinariness.

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A Frog in Hot Water...Please Cook Until Well Done

Postby Ilona » Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:42 pm

Ok, lib, can you look at the character. What is Lib? Can you see how beautiful she is? Can you see that it's fiction? Every different character sees her differently and it's all just stories, thoughts..

How does it work? What drives lib?
How is thought connected to feelings?

Let's see what you see here..
Truth realized will set you free.
http://ilonaciunaite.com


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