Nick welcome Mark, plz introduce yourself.
August 30 at 3:44am · Like
Mark Thank you for welcoming me. I have done much reading and work on my own to find a way out of "the struggle." Have been reading "Gateless Gatecrashers" and studying the app. I welcome what is offered
August 30 at 2:58pm · Like
Rohit Hi mark .I will be working with you .lets start :what are your expections from getting liberated ? What do you expect from this conversation ?write them down .what does the word "I" mean to you ?what does it point to ?
August 30 at 7:44pm via mobile · Like
Mark I an not sure what I expect
August 31 at 1:58pm · Like
Mark I am not sure what I expect. obviously, i have been reading LU material and my expectations fall into line with what i have read. Since i have quit meditating and reading all "outside material" i find that i move thru the day with a much greater ease. A certain fearlessness and less awareness of self is present. I find this sort of ironic. Sleeping eludes me as i seem to be living with these thoughts 24/7. "I" seems to be made of nothing but thought. i see this at times with conviction, but at other times the conviction is lost. i am questioning most everything. i realize that i have been living with a lot of misconceptions in my life. "I,I, my,my." Thank you Rohit. The accountability that you are providing makes this experience different from anything that i have done in the past.
August 31 at 2:20pm · Like
Rohit <<Sleeping eludes me as i seem to be living with these thoughts 24/7.
"I" seems to be made of nothing but thought .>>
Right. "I" a thought. The thought exists.
But, is there a doer? Is there anything doing that thought? WHAT is the source of all thoughts ?Trace it .
<<i realize that i have been living with a lot of misconceptions in my life.>>
Now. Your whole life, you assumed thoughts had a specific cause. Why?
August 31 at 4:45pm · Like
Rohit Mark Ingland
September 2 at 9:22am · Like
Mark moving through life i remind myself that there is no driver. Really? i can see some of the incredible amount of bs ii tell myself to perpetuate the illusion of "i." Thoughts are real. Thoughts don't think. What/who is thinking? thoughts happen. When i run, running happens. Can i truly see life outside this frame of "i"? i don"t think that i am ready to let go of this limited POV yet. Fear is present. I am afraid that everything has in my life is based on a misperception, a lie. I suppose that it is.
September 2 at 5:11pm · Like
Rohit "Fear is present. I am afraid that everything has in my life is based on a misperception, a lie. I suppose that it is."
LOOK at fear ?what is it ?what is it protecting ?If there is no self, then there is nothing that needs to be protected. Right?see ,what is behind the fear ? Notice, that it's protection mechanism. The fear itself is like a door, it holds you from looking behind the door. It's just fear. It’s ok for it to be there doing it’s job. Just let it be there, acknowledge its presence, check where it feels physically in the body.
September 2 at 7:44pm · Like
Mark This is such an elaborate ruse. This fear created by the mind as a self protection mechanism. It is nothing. The act of analyzing everything keeps me from cutting to the chase. Still looking for the source of thought.
September 4 at 6:33am · Like
Mark Realizing that life is not all about me. The constant measuring and comparing can stop. It just does not matter. Taking baby steps.
September 4 at 6:36am · Like
Rohit Nice :) keep looking....see if there is a thinker doing thinking ?just SEE if you can control thoughts ?from where does it originate ?i want you to have a thought of "I" ,what is it ?does it point to something real ?
September 4 at 6:42am via mobile · Like
Mark Dividing what i see into "direct experience-that which is real- and thoughts-which are real-but thinking isn't all it is cracked up to be. i came to believe some time ago that thinking is overrated. Taking something that is real and then feeding that grain of reality into the self constructed mind machine and out comes these hugely overrated lies that i believe have so much significance. A day or a week or a year later i wonder how i could have possibly believed such bullshit! But there i go thinking again. There is no "i" in direct experience.This is so slow! More observation and less thinking is required, I think? "Don't theorize. Look." This false sense of self is like a warm fami(liar) blanket that provides comfort because i believe the lie-that life can't be any other way. Is the truth really so simple? IS that why it seems so hard to see? I want to think think think. Instead i will just see and let it be for now.
September 5 at 11:33am · Like
Rohit It's about looking AT the thoughts, not getting involved with looking INTO them. They are thoughts. Are thoughts real objects? Truth is very simple .Look at the absence of an elephant in your room. Good? Now look at the absence of you in life. is there a YOU doing anything ?LOOK
September 5 at 3:30pm · Like
September 8 at 8:57am · Like
Mark At times it seems very clear to me that there is no "I". "I" is a concept that i have carried with me for a long time without giving any thought to its significance. It colors everything that i do or think. I certainly benefit more from observing than analyzing. It is so easy to fall back into the old way of seeing, but i am not content to just let it rest.
September 8 at 3:42pm · Like
Rohit Don't make 'there's no I' into a mantra. Its the truth, but what will get you there is the act of ACTUALLY LOOKING inside. Its the act of sitting down, and looking inside. There is no you. You don't exist. There is sight, sound, taste, feeling etc. But no 'you'. You can read every book ever written on how to ride a bike. Take lessons from the best bike rider in the world.But it is the actual act of getting on a bike and riding that bike, that now means you can ride a bike. What do you think you are? See that
September 8 at 6:13pm · Like
Mark "What do you think you are?" Nothing. And everything. Nothing-because these walls that i put up to separate myself into a "me" are dissipating day by day. Into no separation. With no separation, all that is left is everything. Like when everything is an emergency-nothing is an emergency.When everything is special-nothing is special. There is only life.
September 9 at 3:23am · Like
Rohit separation between what and what ? you say :"walls that i put up to separate myself into a "me" are dissipating day by day " ,did YOU create the separation ?how ? you say :" Like when everything is an emergency-nothing is an emergency.When everything is special-nothing is special." ,please make yourself clearer .what you say is all just another thought .
September 9 at 8:58am · Like
Mark There is the illusion of separation. This thinking is all circular. It seems like a waste of time. Frustration. I can't go back to books and meditation because i see that the answer is right in front of me. I guess that i need to examine what is holding up this process. Thanks Rohit.
September 10 at 12:59am · Like
Rohit The idea of meaning and things mattering are just ideas .and ideas mean nothing .you are not fighting hard to get this .you are falling into your role as a seeker .you wont get this till you can consider yourself as a doer .you literally refers to nothing .it is just assumed that there is something there .there is not .there is no you .it is not your frustration .it is just frustration .LOOK .there is no you? Why is this true ?
September 10 at 8:42am via mobile · Like
Rohit Mark ,how is it going ?
September 11 at 7:56am · Like
Mark Ok. things change. i can see that "I" is not real. It is made of thought. i don't see the source of thought. It seems that if i/we could control our thoughts then the world would be very different.
September 11 at 5:18pm · Like
Rohit What is seeing that there is no "I" ?thoughts looking at thoughts ?can a thought look ?what is driving the body ?what is driving the process of seeing ?
September 11 at 5:31pm via mobile · Like
Mark there is no driver. Energy is doing. If i attempt to label this doesn't that just put it in a box? Can't it just be?
September 11 at 5:46pm · Like
Rohit So ,do you exist ?
September 11 at 10:02pm via mobile · Like
Rohit So ,do you exist ?
September 11 at 10:02pm via mobile · Like
Mark i do not exist
September 11 at 10:15pm · Like
Rohit Is it really true? why?
September 11 at 10:52pm via mobile · Like
Mark I don't exist because there never was an I to begin with.
September 11 at 11:04pm via mobile · Like
Rohit So when you say "I don' exist ", what comes up? What is typing this? What does this mean to the rest of your life ?
September 12 at 7:22am via mobile · Like
Mark i will return tomorrow.
September 13 at 5:31am · Like
Mark Typing is happening. There is no me to take things personally. No mind games. Life is not a competition. No winners , no losers. Just life. Life is rich. That"s all there is really. No mind to to clutter and complicate the simple. A freedom from self. Who is free? The person that realized he was never bound.
September 13 at 3:26pm · Like
Rohit There is no you ,is it true? what does it mean ?
September 13 at 3:48pm · Like
Mark There is no me. my brain(?) runs about trying to prop up life, taking credit and assigning blame as though it had control of life. what a joke. relaxing and falling back. there is no me to run this show. only the illusion that an i had control. there is no i to run the show. there is no i to let things be. there just is. there are glimpses of what is. an examination of the story of me. it is just a story. change never stops. there is less attachment to all that is happening. in fact, there is no me to attach anything to. i "see" this. but the illusion persists.
September 14 at 3:38pm · Like
Rohit why do you think there is confusion here ?Say I was thinking about Superman. Does that mean Superman exists? Nope. But, the thought about Superman exists. Moreover, Superman relates to a man wearing a suit. It is tangible, even if it doesn't exist. It's something you can visualize. can you say the same thing about "I"? It's just this concept that has absolutely no basis in reality.
September 14 at 3:42pm · Like
Mark There is a resistance. A refusal to believe that Superman is not real. More seeing to be done here. More questioning. Or no questioning. Let what is be what is.
September 14 at 3:58pm · Like
Rohit Yes, resistance is there ,again it is a protection mechanism doing its work beautifully .bring it closer .what is resistance? What is it protecting? What needs to be protected? Is there really something that needs to be protected? honestly, See what is behind the resistance?
September 14 at 5:26pm via mobile · Like
Mark Will do.
September 14 at 5:28pm via mobile · Unlike · 1
Mark Still looking. Sitting. I appreciate you. Will return tomorrow.
September 15 at 3:52pm via mobile · Like
Rohit Ok but avoiding this won't help you.
September 15 at 4:59pm via mobile · Like
Mark There is nothing behind the resistance. Running through the park today i realized that i was not special or separate from the natural environment that i was experiencing. i didn't create all this. Am i to believe that i am separate from it all? That i am an exception? Of course not. There is no i. There is only a thought concept to facilitate communication. "I" was really taking itself SERIOUSLY. Ha! There is no me. Seeing that there never was a me leaves this fear no place to go. Nothing for it to stick to.There is a calmness and expansiveness here. Yet i remain tethered to "i'
September 16 at 3:15am · Like
Mark I have lived all my life being on guard, people- pleasing , trying to be perfect. That hasn't worked out too well. Letting go of the wheel is difficult. The tapes, books and meditation was all me doing for me. Seeing that there is nothing to be done is both liberating and scary at the same time. Dropping the filters. Clinging to the next great answer and measuring the results is what i have done. It was a game. Here no game. The i that was doing is only interested in preserving the illusion that it is real and in control. Wow. There is no me. there is no i. There is no one to struggle.
September 16 at 3:46am · Like
Rohit You won't lose anything. This isn't scary. You won't vanish and disappear. You will just see the pattern that there was never anything to call I. Now. "self", what is it?does it exist, in any way? What are you seeing when you think of this?
September 16 at 10:10am via mobile · Like
Mark Self is only a thought. Or the contents of thought. There is a lot of content in a lot of thoughts, but that does not make it real. Self is a story. A story that not only I made up, but a story that has been reinforced and legitimized by the encouragement of others. This imaginary person has accumulated much input-both good and bad-from other people and itself and made itself seem real. Actions and comments have stuck to it and shaped it. Feelings and emotions have arisen around this self and made it seem all the more real. Something does not have to be real to evoke feeling and emotions. That seems so obvious but i am just now seeing the truth behind the stories and comments that i have been reading. It seems as though the self-only a concept- is evaporating. There is nowhere for these stories that made up this imaginary "self" to go. I see that there is no self, yet the stories remain. Since there is nowhere for these stories to go, they lose their significance. And that is ok. I think that i was afraid that as the stories disappeared, Mark would disappear. Of course not. Only the sense of "I" disappears. Much of the fear is gone. Hands off the drivers wheel is no problem-since there was no driver nor wheel anyway. Life flows unceasingly. No I = no baggage. Self does not exist. It is not real.
September 16 at 5:11pm · Like
Rohit so,any doubts ?
September 16 at 5:40pm · Like
Mark It is difficult to answer your question.I have typed and erased a reply three times. There must be some lingering doubt. Or not doubt, but some sort of denial. Still there is a knowing that the self does not exist.
September 16 at 6:03pm · Like
Rohit Keep looking and challenge the possibility that YOU DON'T EXIST.See if it is really true? Challenge it from all different angles. What is breathing? What is doing the seeing? What is doing existence?
September 16 at 7:09pm via mobile · Like
Mark What is breathing? The body breathes. I am not my body. The body just is. What is self awareness? The self does not exist. How can this be? What is this i that thinks it is aware of itself? "I" is a label for a mechanism that records
September 17 at 5:15am · Like
Mark "I" is a label for a mechanism that spins and mixes reality with thought content (not real) and fuels the illusion that it is real. "I" is all about self preservation. I do not exist. This body with all its senses exists. Thinking happens. Mistaking the thought contents as real leads to the confusion i am having. What is having confusion? I. There is no I. Life just is . Life is happening. How do i know? I am alive. What is doing the seeing? Seeing happens. No need for an i. There is no i. There never was an i. Just a large collection of stories about a mythical figure. Nothing does existence. It cannot be done. It just is. Ok now i see how existence is happening and the i wants to rush in and steal all the credit. Or place blame or whatever. "I" doesn't matter. There is no i. I do not exist. This body, these keys, this chair all are real. No i. The fingers are directed without an i. The world functions perfectly with no i to intervene.The world just goes and goes. Life is so big. It is all.
September 17 at 5:56am · Unlike · 1
Rohit So if you are ready, should we go for the final questions?
September 17 at 6:21am via mobile · Like
Mark Yes. Let's go.
September 17 at 3:13pm · Like
Rohit Is there a 'me', at all, anywhere, in any way,shape or form? Was there ever? how about self, is there anything that is separate from everything else?
September 17 at 3:22pm via mobile · Like
Mark No. There is no me at all. There never was .
September 17 at 10:55pm via mobile · Like
Mark No way shape or form. There is no self. Life is not personal. No one here to own it. Nothing is separate. There are no lines. No beginning. No end. Nothing to wrestle with. And no wrestler.
September 17 at 11:02pm via mobile · Like
Rohit Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works.
Tuesday at 5:13am via mobile · Like
Tuesday at 5:12pm · Like
Mark I am tied up until this evening. Still on it.
Tuesday at 5:31pm via mobile · Unlike · 1
Mark The illusion of a separate self must have started when I was a child. It was probably introduced out of love and as I matured, it was reinforced by fear. If one buys into this "I am the center of the universe" way of living, then there are ample tools available for nurturing the illusion. It is systemic. One doesn't even have to try. It is just commonly accepted. Unknowingly accepted. It works because everybody does it. Looking back, I realize that I may have been around people who had realized the truth, but who can say? In the illusion, there is ME. I must learn to live up to other's expectations. I must conform in order to be successful. I have been given this life and it is my responsibility TO DO THE RIGHT THING. So I take this "me" and bend it and hammer on it and mold it to try to achieve some semblance of success. Only it doesn't work. There is great dissatisfaction. For years. Trying to please Santa (and others that were just as real). It seems to work for others-why not me. It is a game. It is not real. Only the consequences are real. I can see some of the tragic impact on the world that is perpetrated by people who believe their thought contents are real. The same illusion of self that individuals feed, to their immense dissatisfaction, is the very same illusion that causes unspeakable tragedy in the world. Have I gotten off track? The illusion of a separate self is a feeling (real) that I am alone in the world. That I am at the controls directing the action all around me. Everything that happens is about me. Fault and blame are tools I use to both elevate and weaken my sense of self. At any cost, I must protect this me. So I love myself, hate myself, reward myself and beat myself up. There is no stillness. The score clock never stops running. This is an illusion that the self is real.
Wednesday at 4:13am · Like
Rohit How does it feel to see this? describe in detail.
Wednesday at 7:17am via mobile · Like
Mark Rohit. Technical difficulties. Restarted computer and lost text. Will return tonight.
Yesterday at 3:12pm · Unlike · 1
Rohit How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it.
Yesterday at 3:22pm via mobile · Like
Rohit What was the last bit that pushed you over,made you look? was there a specific moment when seeing happened or was it gradual? what exactly happened?
Yesterday at 3:23pm via mobile · Like
Rohit When you come back, answer all three questions.
Yesterday at 3:24pm via mobile · Like
Mark It is exhilarating. To see what was and not to have to carry all that junk around. There is no "me" to carry anything. My eyes are opening for the first time. Fear and doubt have vanished. The past couple days have shown evidence that change is happening. I feel like i am gradually turning inside out and i don't care! Exposed and loving it. Reading and meditating would yield glimpses of peace. But i had to put x amount in to get y amount out. Again, monitoring, keeping score and judging myself. This is nothing like that. This is simply being. Quiet mind. Filters dropping. That constant anxiety that i accepted as a consequence of being alive is mostly gone. No drugs, no religion, no voodoo. Just everything. And nothing. "How would you describe it to somebody who has never heard about this illusion but is curious about it." If somebody was truly curious, i would lead them to LU on youtube. Seeing ordinary liberated people talk about liberation would whet the appetite. Of course only by looking at oneself can one see the truth. "What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?" You gave me a push when you said something like "you are not fighting hard to get this, you are falling into your role as a seeker." And later, "OK, but avoiding this won't help you." Was there a specific moment or was it gradual? what exactly happened?" It was gradual. When i look at where i was in the beginning of this process, i see Mark in his typical role. I wanted to say the right things. I wanted to please my teacher. I felt ill equipped. I wanted to be right. It was personal. Rohit, you kept pointing me to look inside. By sitting and writing i was able to eventually see the illusion. However, i didn't think that i was "getting it." Sure, change was happening. But i was looking for a sudden revelation. But it was just today that i realized that a shift occurred. How do you know when you have seen the truth? This doesn't feel like something that can be undone. "I" didn't grasp anything. No grasping. No believing. This is not something that can be given or taken away. I can't believe that my role as a seeker may be over. Perhaps i can help others see. I have seen so many people in their self-made hell. Tears.
15 hours ago · Edited · Unlike · 4
This is a read-only part of the forum. All threads where seeing happens are stored here and come from this forum, the Facebook guiding area and various LU blogs. The complete list, sorted by guide, contains all links. The archives include threads of those that came to LU already seeing as well.
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