Anyone wants to have a chat?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:41 pm

wow! yes, you are seeing it, or should i say- incoming...

cool. yes, this is it.
how does it feel?

well, to be honest it may be better to sleep on it ..
thanks for so much dedication today ..
Talk again tomorrow O.K. ?

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Ilona
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Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:51 pm

Yeah, speak to you tomorrow. Rest now :)

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 6:58 am

Hi Ilona, Wow! quite a ride yesterday ..
Long and the short of it .. still not absolutely sure .. if you want to skip what's coming ;) ..
Thought I'd just copy and paste a bit of my journal orientating myself this morning .. so you can see where i am at if you have the time or energy to read it .. it's not so much actually ..
Right ... here it is ..

Did I really “see” yesterday that there is no “me” .. that is really the question ..

First feelings on waking up .. “there’s nothing there” .. more like a voice in my head than a reality maybe ..

“If you think you are liberated but you are not sure, you are not liberated.”From Unleashed Twitter page .. that’s good .. still sums it up (I think) ..

“Knowing this does not help. You have to see it. You have to see there is no I in the actual experience.”
(no_one on LN forum)

Rather than talking about yourself, take a look, if there is a self.
Sure is a cool new way to do this .. I’m “getting it” ..
I’m beginning to get it ..
I ? ..
I’m beginning to lose it ..
The I is being seen through ..
So you start to live from the other side of it .. what is (not) behind it .. space .. emptiness .. that-which-is ..
Instead of being after the bubbling up .. you start to be where the bubbling up is coming from ..

... O.K. .. good .. her pointing is very good ..
It would be easy on the forum to just say .. yes O.K. it happened and then start to describe what it is like and all that .. but I don’t feel firm in that yet ..
But I could say that it is beginning and it has been a liberating experience so far ..
A lot about Trust .. trusting the truth of it rather than using intellect to test it .. because intellect and the sense of me are so intertwined ..
Anyway .. it is starting up again on its own today .. because I have been given the tools ..
I ? .. what tools .. what was “I” saying ? ..
Been shown a new way of looking ..
Whatever that entity is behind the eyes .. has been given a new way of looking .. like from further in .. not just behind the eyes .. but behind the “I” idea .. the accumulated years of a thought and feeling cloud .. that was assumed to be “me” .. and most of the work to try to get rid of it was from within the cloud .. (the truth of the fact that the ego cannot get rid of itself) .. somehow I was led to see that the cloud is a lie .. a fiction .. does not exist .. and .. (and this is what appears important today) .. existence goes on without it .. existence associated with this mind/body .. but not the mind and definitely not the body ..
It just goes on .. so the fear of existing without the self has been removed .. or is being removed ..
I have to get used to this .. there is an assimilation process ..
So I’m not too sure if I’m in that .. or still not quite there yet ..
Whichever way .. I’m in process .. and that is good .. feels good and is energising and hopeful ..

Existence .. life .. without a “me”

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Ilona
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 16, 2011 8:41 am

Very good! you are right in the middle of the crossing. trust the process.
is there a you to cross? is there a you to get used to? is there a you to get it?

is there a you to trust the process?

look right now around the room, describe what is being seen. just write what is right here right now.

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:07 pm

Very good! you are right in the middle of the crossing. trust the process.
is there a you to cross? is there a you to get used to? is there a you to get it?
is there a you to trust the process?
look right now around the room, describe what is being seen. just write what is right here right now.

Hi, sorry about the delay .. woke very early this morning .. (about 4.30) .. and this work seems tiring/energizing .. so went back to sleep a while (maybe assimilating stuff ?) ..
Thanks for your patience and constancy ..

Yeah .. right .. I know there's no me to cross (and no crossing) .. and no me to get used to it ... no me to "get" anything ... almost not a me to trust the process .. but there is an existence that goes on .. something that all the senses refer back to and a sense of an individual self still .. Gregory sitting here grappling with this stuff .. : ) ..

Right here right now .. there are (my) hands moving typing on the keys .. The lap top is on (my) legs .. (my) body is on this sofa .. there are items of furniture .. tables .. and chairs .. a telly .. some guitars .. some lamps .. pictures on the walls .. books on the shelves ..
I re-read the above sentences and the "my"s stick out .. what to do ? "There are hands typing on the keys .. the lap top is on some legs .. a body is on the sofa .. " etc ?
Isn't it all semantics ? Or have I got so accustomed to the "my" .. Is there no ghost in the machine ?

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Ilona
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Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 16, 2011 12:53 pm

Answer it yourself, is there a ghost in the machine?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 1:06 pm

Hi again Ilona .. I'm working quite hard at this .. with the tools that you are giving me ..
It seems to have released some energy and I have to move a bit today .. I'm driving up to see a friend of mine and will take my lappie with me .. maybe chat to you from there.
Meanwhile .. I'll just leave you with what is happening in my journal as I work with you ..



12:09:hrs; .. slept .. awoke heavy and negative .. surveying the possibilities in this ridiculous empty life of mine ..
Have a tea .. go to the forum .. take a look at someone else’s one-on-one with Ilona .. she’s pretty good ..
About really “seeing” this for myself .. Being a little more honest today .. maybe been trying to please her too much .. maybe don’t want the communication to end .. because .. Then what ? ..
Without an I .. (as I felt earlier) .. no more me to deal with .. no more long drawn out game in the journal with all the twists and turns of “my” “self” .. playing that weird game of my poor old ego talking to ... my poor old ego ? .. or to what ? Anyway .. sustaining the fiction of the ego by running with it .. talking to itself ..
So .. if I didn’t have that .. all this working-stuff-out game .. what would “I” do ? ..
Help others to get liberated is the only answer really .. because I am still absolutely not interested in all the games most other people play ..
... God (?) .. the space left where the I fiction was ..

The me the my the I .. the body the actions the thoughts ..
Intellectual understanding that ...
Oh! .. what stopped and left a .. ? ....
Nothing but now
...

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Ilona
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:06 pm

Can you have a look at the character, see it for what it is- a hero in a fictional story. and story is real. it's an ongoing story. can you see how beautiful the character is? can you apreciate him?
yes, there is a character that is playing it's role perfectly and when no self is truly seen, it does not stop there and carries on as always. love for kids is still here as well as all conditioning, likes and dislikes etc...

can you look at that fiction and tell me, does it need a separate entity to drive it? is it possible that all there is is this story that is playing out by itself? a play without actors, without directors and so on...

what comes up here?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 6:45 am

Can you have a look at the character, see it for what it is- a hero in a fictional story. and story is real. it's an ongoing story. can you see how beautiful the character is? can you apreciate him?
yes, there is a character that is playing it's role perfectly and when no self is truly seen, it does not stop there and carries on as always. love for kids is still here as well as all conditioning, likes and dislikes etc...

can you look at that fiction and tell me, does it need a separate entity to drive it? is it possible that all there is is this story that is playing out by itself? a play without actors, without directors and so on...

what comes up here?

Hi again,
Yes, this morning feels like I really see what you mean, especially the bit .. "as well as all conditioning, likes and dislikes etc..." I realize that my expectations of change were too high .. I had been wanting to wipe the slate completely clean .. imagining that by collapsing the fiction of the "me" I would collapse my whole life story ..
Seems like I've "clicked" to what you have been pointing at now.
It certainly does not need a separate entity to drive it .. In fact it seems like that was the whole illusion of "me".
Feels like the "separate entity" has gone. So just see what happens now.

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Ilona
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Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Mon Oct 17, 2011 8:17 am

Yes, longgone1, this is it. No boom, no angel choir, no collapsing of whole life story... Just a gentle shift where it's clearly seen, that story goes on, life goes on, as it always did. What has changed?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:19 am

In a way almost nothing (now that the expectation has changed/been dropped) .. yet there is an ease and a flow and an acceptance .. Just life going on .. as it did before .. but no strong illusion of being in the driver's seat .. Not driving anything ..
Also .. apparently (for now at least) .. no churning and grinding vis a vis journalling a bunch of very self absorbed reports of (whatever that entity was) 's attempts to work it all out and understand and come to a conclusion .. find an answer etc ..
Phew .. pant .. pant ... rela-a-a-x .. or relief .. but no real fireworks .. just life as it is .. Autumn .. grey sky .. turning chilly .. going shopping .. breakfast .. a drive .. whatever ..
Thanks ..
Maybe it's happened ?

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Ilona
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Mon Oct 17, 2011 9:34 am

looks like it did..
can you answer now, how does it FEEL to be free? what was that las push?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:37 am

light .. free .. unentangled .. ready .. open .. a bit peaceful .. natural .. even "normal" .. are words that come to mind .. aware (?) ..
Maybe still a bit early to have assimilated .. be sure and then able to assess ..
Struggling a bit here .. all is just the same .. so, in that sense, maybe more authentic ..
To be honest rather leave some time before I commit to any statements about anything ..
Isness is the business I could say .. : )

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:44 am

As for the last push .. I think it was your words "carries on as always ..... as well as all conditioning, likes and dislikes "
... When I saw and allowed that .. dropped all the imagination about a big change .. then I was able to hone down to the actual "me" or "I" sensation being in the driver's seat and let go of that .. so it ended "not with a bang but a whimper" .. that gollum-like sensation just slunk away ..

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Ilona
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Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:58 am

Great, just great....

Let it settle for now. If you have a chance spend some time today in nature, just observing the constant movement of totality. Notice the impermanence of what is.

There are couple of questions left, but let's do it tomorrow. :)
Lots of love to you.


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