Anyone wants to have a chat?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:06 pm

Yes .. this is just going on .. More useful pointers .. thank you .. (slight ramble) .. I remember once when driving down from Mulhacen mountain in Las Alpujarras in Spain .. in my old VW .. a tape of Coleman Barks Rumi poetry playing .. suddenly the line ..
"Who's that looking out through my eyes ?" ..
WHAM! .. I got this ..
It's like there is a looker .. but it's not the one who we are accustomed to thinking it is ..
There is a hearer ..
There is a feeler ..
or there is something that the eyes and ears and sensations report back to .. but it's not me ..
Hearing happens, seeing happens .. feeling happens .. and somehow one loses track of which direction it is going in .. it's like .. not a me in here and a seeing hearing or feeling something out there but the seer the seeing and the seen start to merge .. the hearer .. is not so much there but more immediate with the hearing and the sound ..
the feeling and the felt merge with any feeler that was there ..
seems like the labelling always comes after and is composed of thought and therefore intimately associated with the thinker .. the idea of the thinker .. a seperate thing that comes after ..but the actual event is immediate and all one, happening to ...
no one ? ..

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Ilona
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Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:14 pm

Bingo!
Experience is happening. To no one. It just is.
Is there a witness?
A looker,
A seer?
Understander?

What is here now?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 2:40 pm

There is witnessing but no witness ..
There is looking but no look-er
There is seeing but no see-er
There is understanding but no understand-er ..

Here now there is being .. beingness .. being ...

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Ilona
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:48 pm

are you just saying this or really getting it? do you exist?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:20 pm

I was kind of allowing being to speak for me .. I couldn't allow myself to say it .. because for me .. it wasn't true ..
"I" just let go and allowed the truth to be told from the other side as it were ..
It's like the veil is so thin .. between that understanding and this ..
but I'm kind of still here .. teetering ..
My normal everyday self is wobbling .. crumbling .. dissolving .. when "I" look for it there's not a lot left to grasp or identify with .. It's not so solid .. not so sure of itself .. and the more one communicates with others who have seen this the more it's easy not to communicate from there ..
Words are also running out .. they used to pour out of me .. impressing my pompous ego with its own acrobatics .. now it's like the acrobat is off the trapeze and sitting on the edge of the circus ring waiting for the audience to go home so he can disappear .. stop holding up the illusion .. blah blah blah ..

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Ilona
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:32 pm

hahaha, yeah, I can see that something is shifting.

ok, so let's get to the bottom of 'me'.
what is me? can it be found in real life other that in thoughts?
the feeling of 'me'- is it personal? is it possible that there are feeling and sensations coming up then mind labels that as 'sense of me'? is there an entity behind feeling? is there a feeler?

shoot.

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 4:43 pm

hahaha, yeah, I can see that something is shifting.

ok, so let's get to the bottom of 'me'.
what is me? can it be found in real life other than in thoughts?
the feeling of 'me'- is it personal? is it possible that there are feeling and sensations coming up then mind labels that as 'sense of me'? is there an entity behind feeling? is there a feeler?

shoot.

Me can't be found in real life other than in thoughts .. that's pretty clear ..
The feeling of me starts to be like an old roof tile or a fish scale or a scab .. something that might just fall off any minute or that could be picked off .. but is still a little bit attached .. so it's slightly personal still .. but just a sticky little bit ..
mmm feelings sensations coming up that mind labels "sense of me" .. that's pretty damn near i would say ..
entity behind feeling ? .. no .. not really .. doesn't seem to be there at all ..
is there a feeler ? ..
ooh .. that damn sticky little bit .. (wince) .. smile ..

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Ilona
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Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:05 pm

What do you expect to happen? Feelings, thoughts, experiencing are not gonna disappear. It's just a drop of belief.

Feeler? Does feeling to arise need a me? Look closer. Where do feelings come from? Where are they being felt? What is behind them?

Look at animals, if you have pets, they too experience emotion. Is there a feeler in an animal?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:27 pm

What do you expect to happen? Feelings, thoughts, experiencing are not gonna disappear. It's just a drop of belief.

Feeler? Does feeling to arise need a me? Look closer. Where do feelings come from? Where are they being felt? What is behind them?

Look at animals, if you have pets, they too experience emotion. Is there a feeler in an animal?

Feeling to arise doesn't need a me .. that comes after .. first feelings .. then making them "mine" .. identifying with them .. but they come up before the "me" ..
Not sure where they come from .. seem to arise from nowhere like thoughts .. (can be associated with people's actions or words .. and memories .. like old tapes or recordings playing)
They are felt especially around the heart .. also behind the eyes .. (tears well up there .. and around the temples .. pounding can happen there) i know i am being a bit literal but just honest .. "off the top" .. not too much cleverness ..
Behind them seems to be nothing .. as with the thoughts .. any idea of me or mine comes after the fact not before ..

Last question sounds a bit like "Does a dog have Buddha nature ?" but I guess feelings in an animal come from the same place as in me .. Who knows ? .. Nobody knows really ..

Seeing that there is nothing "before" seems like a clue .. when I look there .. before thoughts and feelings .. there is space .. spaciousness .. emptiness .. vast space .. like everything wells up out of there but mysteriously .. nobody knows how and there seems to be no link between that nothingness and this seeming somethingness ..
.. then after all that comes any labelling or possessing .. identifying or feeling of me .. I .. mine

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Ilona
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Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:50 pm

Yes it's all just assumed identity.
Do you exist?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:11 pm

Fading fast .. still a cloud of melancholy that is associated with a feeling of me .. a heavy old grey/brown cloud ..
Do I exist ? .. went for a walk ..
"He's a real nowhere man, living in his nowhere land, making all his nowhere plans for nobody.
Doesn't have a point of view, knows not where he's going to isn't he a bit like you and me ?
Nowhere man, don't worry, nowhere man what's the hurry ? The world is at your command." ... etc .. going in my head .. so tired of thinking .. even trying to shuck off the belief in "me" ..
Maybe not do I exist but does I exist ? .. I, I, I, WTF ?

you're very patient and keeping up the constant pressure is good ..

Does an I exist here ? ..
A bit still, yes, if I'm honest ..

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Ilona
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:08 pm

It's going very well, all is happening, just keep the noticing going that all is happening by itself. in other words, keep the gaze at the true and look, is it true? if that is true, it is obvious. notice the obvious. :)

there is no 'me' at all other than thoughts about 'me'.
what is longgone1 ?

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:05 pm

It's going very well, all is happening, just keep the noticing going that all is happening by itself. in other words, keep the gaze at the true and look, is it true? if that is true, it is obvious. notice the obvious. :)

there is no 'me' at all other than thoughts about 'me'.
what is longgone1 ?

If all is happening by itself .. which it is .. everything mutually arising .. then that includes me .. there is no autonomy here .. that is true .. that is obvious ..
The only "me" is a bunch of thoughts .. an imaginary me .. not real .. me is not real ..
longgone1 is the name of a fiction ..
I invented the name to suggest the fact that I was never separate .. was always one .. There is no longgone1 separate from anything else and never has been ..
"I" am just a fiction ... a bunch of accumulated events and experiences that a name got attached to .. then it was assumed that the name, applied to those memorised events, was an entity .. (Gregory in this case) .. and it became assumed that Gregory was I .. and I was Gregory .. but Gregory was just the name for a body with associated thoughts and feelings ..
Somehow this I feeling associated with the body/mind named Gregory was assumed to be separate from everything else and not only that but autonomous .. capable of thought .. of having its own thoughts (which is patently not true) .. and actually a self directing doer of things as well as a thinker of thoughts .. the I thought usurped the throne of the Real Doer ..
Longgone1 is an act .. a fiction ..

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longgone1
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby longgone1 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:07 pm

longgone1 is a thought .. "I" am nothing more than a thought .. "I" do not really exist ..

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Ilona
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Re: Anyone wants to have a chat?

Postby Ilona » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:31 pm

wow! yes, you are seeing it, or should i say- incoming...

cool. yes, this is it.
how does it feel?


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