Hi all, I am Alessio

[Aletree19]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? That there is no actual doer or thinker in direct experience. When there is direct looking at what the I is, there is only thoughts that point to an I, but this I can t be found. There seems to be a feeling of "me" behind the eyes, but looking at it deeply , it s just a feeling.
What are you looking for at LU? To see deeply and completely the unreality of I. Through meditation, self inquiry and especially thanks to the book Liberation Unleashed, I came to see that the me is just a fleeting sequence of thoughts , sensations and emotions that seem to belong to someone, but that this someone can t be found. This entity that is supposed to generate or having these experiences can t be found. Sometimes I feel I am really close to really seeing this fully and for few moments it seemed it actually happened, for then coming back into the usual "me". I would like to have some support in really seeing what is left to see through.
What do you expect from a guided conversation? To be helped in seeing the missing points that I haven t explored yet and to remove beliefs that I haven t challenged. Also to clarify certain "seeing" that happened recently after starting to read Liberation Unleashed, and to see if there is something to learn from them or they are just other illusions. I would like to have someone that calls me out if I start to drift in a direction that is not towards truth.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I am Alessio, an italian scientist working in drug discovery. I have been meditating regularly since few years, reading Jed Mckenna, Adyashanti and Nisargadatta. I have started since few month to Look as described in "Liberation Unleashed" book and I would like to explore this in a deeper way with a guide. I have practiced meditation regularly for 3 years, 30 min in the morning, 30 in the evening. I have participated also in a short silent meditation retreat of 3 days and I am going to do another of 5 days in New Year. I have followed mainly Adyashanti and Zen meditation methods, they improved my life in ways I didn t imagine, but the funny thing is that they also removed most of my aspirations, desires and fears of the future. The main thing that still keep me unrested is the desire to see who or what am I in reality and to see Truth. As I said before, I have also started to read Liberation Unleashed book few months ago and I have almost completed it. I am practicing the exercises and questions in the book by myself and they are really helping me, but I feel like a guide would probably improve even further the process.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Maylson]

Hi Alessio, I’m May, and I can be your guide.

Alessio is your name, right?

You’ve already seen that “I” is just a thought. Good. Now stop thinking. Look directly. Right now. No concepts.

In this exact moment, without using any thought.. where is “you”?

Not “it feels like,” not “there’s a sense of me behind the eyes”, that’s conceptual garbage.
Without story, without language, without memory, what is actually here?

You want to see what’s “missing”? Then stop feeding the identity that says it hasn’t seen.
There is no “almost.” There is no “going back to the me.”
Those are just thoughts, unquestioned content, pretending to be real.

Now look:
Sensations. Sounds. Forms. Thoughts. All just showing up.
Where is the owner of any of it?
Where is the center, the controller, the “self”?

Show me.

You said:

“Sometimes it seems it happened, but then I come back to the usual ‘me’.”

Who comes back?
What exactly is returning?

Be brutally honest: isn’t it just another thought saying, “I’m back”?
Does that make it real?

Stop trying to create a special experience. Stop waiting for some final breakthrough.

You’ve already seen there’s no “one” in control. So why do you keep acting like something is left to achieve?

Right now, don’t go to thought

What exactly are you calling “me”?

If a thought shows up, great. See it for what it is: impersonal, automatic...
If a sensation arises, great. Notice it’s not owned by anyone.

So ...
You’re not almost there. You’re not going back to anything. You’re preserving the idea of a process to avoid what’s unmistakably obvious:

There has never been a "you" to awaken. There’s just this. Now. Unclaimed.

Speak to me from here:
Right now, without mind, where is Alessio?

No theory... No delay... Just the raw truth.

[Aletree19]

Hi May,
thanks for accepting to be my guide. Yes, my name is Alessio. I will answer the questions in paragraphs, let me know if it works for you.
"You’ve already seen that “I” is just a thought. Good. Now stop thinking. Look directly. Right now. No concepts.
In this exact moment, without using any thought.. where is “you”?
Not “it feels like,” not “there’s a sense of me behind the eyes”, that’s conceptual garbage.
Without story, without language, without memory, what is actually here?"

As soon as I read your question, there was an uncomfortable feeling in the chest, like something being suddenly thretened. Just looking at this feeling and what was happening, there was just nothing behind it, just experiences happening by themself, then there were after few seconds thoughts coming trying to rationalize, grasp and explain that nothing.
I repeated the looking for several times during the day both while doing stuff and just being still, and again I didn t find anyone who was looking and acting. I have also noticed something I never saw before, that there is an automatic tendency of believing the immediate thought that comes up , believing it has validity, at least for few moments, while discarding the thought that came few seconds before, believing it was not real. All of this happens automatically , there is no choice, the difference is that before I was not aware of it.

"You want to see what’s “missing”? Then stop feeding the identity that says it hasn’t seen.
There is no “almost.” There is no “going back to the me.”
Those are just thoughts, unquestioned content, pretending to be real.
Now look:
Sensations. Sounds. Forms. Thoughts. All just showing up.
Where is the owner of any of it?
Where is the center, the controller, the “self”?"

You are right, there is just believing of the content of certain thoughts, in particular some quite repetitive ones like "I haven t seen really yet" " there are many pieces missing" "I can t really see that there is no I with all these thoughts running around". The thing is the"I" that is inside the thoughts, can t do anything because it s just a thought, and outside of it there is literally nothing that own thoughts or experiences. There is no I outside of thoughts, just thoughts that come up fast one after the other, feeling and sensations, but seeing them separately, they don t belong to a solid entity. The controller is just an illusion, mainly thoughts that believe that sensations and movement and feelings belong to them and that they are in control of them.

"Who comes back?
What exactly is returning?
Be brutally honest: isn’t it just another thought saying, “I’m back”?
Does that make it real?"
There is nobody going out and going back, there is only the belief of coming back, and that belief is a thought that take another thought to be real.

"Stop trying to create a special experience. Stop waiting for some final breakthrough.
You’ve already seen there’s no “one” in control. So why do you keep acting like something is left to achieve?"
Thanks for pointing this out, this is one of the repetitive belief that I mentioned before. It s losing it s strenght though. I have always believed I needed a special "spiritual" experience, that I need to practice meditation for hours, but in the end all the actual realisation and noticing happened without much connection to any practice, simple looking and realisation happening by itself.
"You’re not almost there. You’re not going back to anything. You’re preserving the idea of a process to avoid what’s unmistakably obvious:
There has never been a "you" to awaken. There’s just this. Now. Unclaimed."
This hit hard. There is just silence after this.
Thanks!
Speak to me from here:
Right now, without mind, where is Alessio?
Nowhere, there are just fingers typing by themself this answer and thoughts describing the words written. A lot of silence around.

Thanks again,
Alessio

[Maylson]

Good, Alessio!!!

You saw the uncomfortable sensation and how thought rushed in to explain it. You even caught belief attaching itself automatically to certain thoughts, especially those old, repetitive ones. Excellent!!!

Now tell me something, and don’t answer quickly, look directly:

Did you actually choose to look at that sensation?
Was there a you deciding to observe?
Or did it just happen, unprompted, unowned?

You mentioned,

“I repeated the looking for several times during the day”

Who did?
That “I” just slipped back in without question. Pay attention, that’s how the story survives. It comes in after the seeing, and claims ownership. Watch that move closely.

“The thing is the"I" that is inside the thoughts, can t do anything because it s just a thought...”

Good.
Now let’s go deeper.

Outside of thought, is there anything that acts, decides, controls?
Not in theory. Don’t analyze. Look!

Right now, lift one of your hands.
Watch what happens.
Where’s the point where “you” chose that?
Did anything actually choose? Or did the movement happen on its own, and then thought came in claiming, “I did that”?

Don’t answer too fast. Stay raw. Stay with what actually happens.

You also said that all the realisations happened without much connection to any practice, not during meditation, not after effort, just through simple looking. Yes. Because that’s all there ever is. Just this. No path. No method. No progress. No one.

And that sentence I wrote — “There has never been a ‘you’ to awaken.” — you said it hit hard.

Good.
Let it hit harder.
That reaction… the silence you mentioned… pause and stay there.

Was there a self in that silence?

Or did something just stop grabbing at experience for a moment?

Now… right now, tell me, is there a “you” reading these words?

Not the voice in your head answering.Not the thoughts about what to say next.
I mean here, now!!! before all that.

Is there a center?

Is anything claimed?

Look directly.

“Nowhere, there are just fingers typing by themself this answer and thoughts describing the words written. A lot of silence around.”

Beautiful. Don't move from that. Don’t explain it, don’t make it into a new concept. Stay right where that recognition happened. Let the silence eat everything.

And if anything inside you still says: “Something’s missing. I haven’t seen it fully…”

Pause.

Who is speaking?

Who would need anything more?

One last thing, it would really help the flow of our conversation if you used quote mode when you reply. Makes it easier to track exactly what you’re responding to.

Here’s a short video showing how to do it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fAToDNh9hQ

[Aletree19]

Hi May,

thanks for your reply and your guidance, I can see your passion in this. I saw the video about quoting, I will start to use it.
I took time to answer your questions, I did it in two days.

Now tell me something, and don’t answer quickly, look directly:
Did you actually choose to look at that sensation?

No, it just attracted attention, was like a magnet. Nobody decided. In the past there would have been distraction to don t feel uncomfortable feelings, but now there was just curiosity.

Was there a you deciding to observe?
Or did it just happen, unprompted, unowned?

It s difficult to answer, because it s a sequence of events that happened two days ago, but it didn t seem so. Looking at now, there are sounds of traffic outside, feeling of the body on the sofa, warmth , and focusing switch between these sounds and feeling without a real decision. Also, It s really clear now that there is no controller of the body, which is actually really natural to feel, but really weird to write. There is also no real separation between the body and the external environment, both with eye closed or open. Again, nothing special , it s not an altered state of consciousness. What is still not clear are thoughts. The funny thing is that , as soon as I wrote "what is still not clear are thoughts", a really simple and direct looking started to happen and despite thoughts passing by, they became quite "transparent" and light and nobody was owning them or trying to control them. This is still happening while I write.

Who did?
That “I” just slipped back in without question. Pay attention, that’s how the story survives. It comes in after the seeing, and claims ownership. Watch that move closely.

The I was meant to be just a language form, but thanks for pointing it out, it s really useful. It is something that was noticed earlier today, like thoughts that discard other thoughts, claiming that the new thought is true, or deciding that other past thoughts were true.
Actually I would like to go deeper into this, do you have any exercise about seeing how thoughts claim ownership? I have the impression that some of the realisations that were seen in the past got "hyjacked" by the I claiming that doing something special to have them.

Outside of thought, is there anything that acts, decides, controls?
Not in theory. Don’t analyze. Look!

No, there is only silence and emptiness.
What I also noticed during daily life is that the more the idea of a controller is believed, the more thoughts become stronger and repetitive , with also a contraction in the face or body. This usually happens at work ahah

Where’s the point where “you” chose that?
Did anything actually choose? Or did the movement happen on its own, and then thought came in claiming, “I did that”

This is actually something that starts to be clear, as I wrote before. There are even thoughts claiming ownership in this "successful" looking, which is really funny. Is also funny that I asked before an exercise about claiming ownership and indirectly I got one without having to wait.

Was there a self in that silence?
Or did something just stop grabbing at experience for a moment?

No, and that silence came back while reading the question right now. Even with thoughts describing the words being written, there is silence in the background. In general is true that when there is no grasping, no trying to figure things out, there is silence.

Now… right now, tell me, is there a “you” reading these words?

I stayed for minutes searching, but there is no one, just thoughts that come up between stretches of silence, claiming to be the one who is looking and searching and not finding. Pretty funny writing it.

Not the voice in your head answering.Not the thoughts about what to say next.
I mean here, now!!! before all that.

No, first there is a moment of silence, then the thoughts describe what is read.

Is there a center?
Is anything claimed?

I wanted to write " during the day sometimes there is an intense focusing in the head and behind the eyes" but really now in direct experience there is no head and there are no eyes! Even "my" hands that are typing are not possessed by anybody, plus there is no controller owning them. Even the idea of possession seems stupid at the moment. The idea of possession is just an idea! If I take my pocket of "my" coin and I lose it in the street, it was not of anybody even when it was in the pocket.

Beautiful. Don't move from that. Don’t explain it, don’t make it into a new concept. Stay right where that recognition happened. Let the silence eat everything.

There was a long moment of silence, similar to the one felt in meditation. No feeling, emotions or thoughts coming up.

Who is speaking?
Who would need anything more?

Another thought, claiming that it s truer than the previous thought.

Thanks for your reading and your support May. Today I had moments of silence and feeling of the body being extremely light even at work, where usually there is only a constant stream of thoughts, all while watching and finding no one having these experiences.

Alessio

[Maylson]

Hi Alessio!

Normally these conversations unfold every day, but there’s a lot moving on this end right now, and responses might not come daily. I’ll still stay close and keep the flow going as steadily as possible! :)
You know how the end of the year brings this rush in the system, everything accelerating a bit...

So! Good. I can feel you’re not just thinking about this, you’re right inside the seeing.

You noticed the sensation pulling attention like a magnet. Perfect!
But look closely:

If attention shifts on its own, if curiosity arises on its own, if everything unfolds without anyone initiating it…

where exactly is the one who could “choose” anything?

This is where the illusion gets thin.
Experience moves, and only afterward a thought appears trying to take credit.

Watch that moment carefully, it’s the last place the “I” hides.

“I stayed for minutes searching.”

Did you?
Or did searching simply appear, just like everything else?

Look again. Not as memory... now!

There is silence.
There is noticing.
Thoughts flare up now and then.

But where is a noticer?
Where is the owner of noticing?

See how silence is here without anyone inside it.

Typing is happening.
Sensation is happening.
Breath is happening.
Thoughts describe things.
And none of it has a center.

You asked for an exercise about thoughts claiming ownership.
You’re already doing it:

Each time a thought appears with “I,” check what it’s pointing to.

“I realized something.”
Look: where is the one who realized?

“I want to go deeper.”
Look: where is the one who wants?

“I saw silence.”
Look: is there a seer anywhere?

Every time, it dissolves.

You wrote something very clean:

“There is no head. No eyes. Even possession doesn’t make sense.”

Exactly. The structure holding the self-story is collapsing.

So let's go straight through:

If there is no head, no eyes, no owner of hands, no possessor of thoughts…

where is Alessio right now?

Not the memory of Alessio.
Not the idea of Alessio.
Not the story of Alessio’s day.

Here, in the immediacy of experience:

Is there a self anywhere?

Look and answer from that silence you’ve already touched, the place where nothing is claimed and nothing needs to be.

I'm here. Keep looking from there.

[Aletree19]

Hi May,
don t worry , I understand and thanks again for your help. It s the same here, at work people want to achieve arbitrary goals until the arbitrary line of end of the year, so more stuff going on.

"But look closely: If attention shifts on its own, if curiosity arises on its own, if everything unfolds without anyone initiating it… where exactly is the one who could “choose” anything?"

Right now there is looking more directly at the mechanism of choosing. There is no finding of who choose. Also at a certain point there was even a weird seeing that there is no one behind the eyes watching, and a thought came up immediately after that saying " there is no one seeing". There seems to be some resistance in completely letting go into seeing and stop believing there is someone in control, even after seeing there is no one seeing and no one doing actions.

This is where the illusion gets thin.
Experience moves, and only afterwards a thought appears trying to take credit.
Watch that moment carefully, it’s the last place the “I” hides."

I can feel that. In the last few days and also right now , while looking intensively, there were moments when there was not even the one looking, and this creates waves of almost nausea alternating with a really enjoyable sense of lightness. It s really weird, seems almost to be sick or something.
Right now watching who is feeling this sensations, there was a moment when it was seen that no one generates or own the sensations or thoughts, like there was no one in the centre having this experience. It stopped when the focusing switched to thoughts. Another thing that was seen right now is that certain feelings emerge because of a thought coming up really quickly and almost imperceptibly and be automatically believed, like right now there was a " I am tired" thought, although until then there was no tiredness, and then a quick feeling of tiredness came up. Don t know if it makes sense? Normally it s the thought that comes after experience, describing it, but now it seemed the opposite. It really felt like an induced hypnosis, because as soon as it was seen , the feeling of tiredness disappeared.

“I stayed for minutes searching.”Did you?
Or did searching simply appear, just like everything else?"

You are right , even the searching and the looking happen by themselves. Even the motivation to do this inquiry springs out of nothing. For example , now thoughts were coming up saying " I am tired" and " I don t feel well", but the looking continued independently of these thoughts, and then other thoughts came , claiming " I am really committed" with attached a sense of pride ahha really funny, I can t believe I took seriously for year this kind of shit ( sorry for the language, but it felt appropriate). Big part of the imagined me was probably fueled by this taking ownership and pride of every action, with attached a judgement regarding the me, like " Good , your are the best" or " Jesus, that was really a disaster, I need to work more".

There is silence.There is noticing.Thoughts flare up now and then.
But where is a noticer?
Where is the owner of noticing?"

I stopped after the previous question and continued the day after, to be fully focused. Regarding your question, all of this inquiry makes no sense, finding oneself should be the easiest thing ever, so the only logical conclusion is that there is no self to find. Thoughts come up sometimes in the silence saying " it s not there, it doesn t exist", but still there is something surviving or hiding from the seeing. Today I had a moment in the morning where the thoughts were perceived as completely impersonal, not logically , but even at the feeling level, like they were random sentences said by a stranger in the street. There was a simple sense of freedom and lightness during this. There was no noticer of thoughts, just impersonal seeing with a kind of aliveness attached to it, but really subtle and undefinable

"Each time a thought appears with “I,” check what it’s pointing to."

This is something that happened spontaneously this morning, without even reading your suggestion. It feels like this is the key point to continue working on, I feel like that really changed the entire approach of daily looking and seeing. I tried for years to bring the clarity and peace that were felt during meditation in daily life, but mostly failed. With this it seems that the clarity comes by just looking.

"If there is no head, no eyes, no owner of hands, no possessor of thoughts…
where is Alessio right now?Not the memory of Alessio.Not the idea of Alessio.
Not the story of Alessio’s day. Here, in the immediacy of experience:
Is there a self anywhere?"

It s not there. It s only a movement of thoughts and it s only inside the thoughts, when the content is believed, the thoughts themselves don t seem an actual "problems".
I feel I need more seeing, but there is a recognition that even this is just a thought based on nothing. I don t know what I need to see more, it seems like every day there is a perspective shift that I couldn t imagine the day before. All life was carried on believing thoughts and now that there is some degree of detachment, everything feels quite strange.
I will continue to look into the last question, I want to do it more without staring at a screen.
Thank you May, I hope you are enjoying the beginning of the week, despite the busy times.
Best
Alessio

[Maylson]

Hi Alessio :)


You’re seeing a lot, and you’re seeing it in real time.
Now we strip the last defenses.

You described attention moving on its own, sensations appearing without an owner, curiosity arising without a chooser. Perfect.
But look at the part you didn’t question yet:

“There seems to be resistance in completely letting go.”

Whose resistance?
Show me who it belongs to.
Look right now, does resistance have an owner, or is it just another sensation with a thought glued to it?

There is no “someone” holding back.
There is only the experience of holding-back, and then a thought saying “I am resisting.”

Don’t fight it.
Just see it.

You said the nausea comes when the sense of a looker drops.
Of course.
That’s the system trying to stabilize the familiar hallucination of a center.

Nausea, dizziness, lightness... all of that is just the structure reorganizing itself as the imaginary “me” loses a place to stand.

None of it points to a someone. All of it happens by itself.
Let it happen.

Now look again:

Right now…
sensations appear.
thoughts appear.
lightness, heaviness, clarity, fog... all appearing.

Where is the experiencer?

Not as a theory.
Where is it now?

That moment you described where thoughts felt like

“sentences from a stranger”

that is the system without identification. That is the natural state.
Notice how simple it is.

And notice how the mind immediately tries to smuggle something back in:

“There is something hiding.”
“I need more seeing.”
“There’s resistance.”

These are not problems, not truths... These are just thoughts, arising the same way a sound arises, the same way a breeze moves.

A thought saying “something is hiding” does not mean anything is hiding.
It only means a sentence appeared.

Look now:
Does that sentence have an owner?
Does it belong to anyone?

“All of this inquiry makes no sense; finding oneself should be the easiest thing ever.”

Exactly.
It is the easiest thing, because there is no self to find.

And that’s why thought keeps throwing up fog, if clarity becomes easy, the seeker cannot survive.

But look deeper:

When you say “I need more seeing,”
is that anything more than a thought with a feeling attached?

If that thought doesn’t get believed, what remains?

Just silence. Just aliveness. Just movement without a mover.,, isn't it?

Right now, without touching thought, is there anything that could be called “Alessio”?

Not an echo of yesterday.
Not a pattern of memory.
Not a name.

Here.
This moment.
This immediacy.

Is there a self anywhere?

Look until the answer is not conceptual, not logical... but obvious.

Then tell me:

Does a self exist in any way, shape, or form, or was it always only a story?

Stay right here.
Look from the silence, not from the mind.

I’m here.

[Aletree19]

Hi May,
here the replies:

"Whose resistance?
Show me who it belongs to.
Look right now, does resistance have an owner, or is it just another sensation with a thought glued to it?"

Right now there is no resistance, but the feeling that are passing by don t seem even to have a thought attached to them. Like right now there is a feeling like the entire body is pumping blood, kind of aliveness, with no thoughts while experiencing it, only thoughts coming later on to describe it. The only "me" is in the thoughts that come after, not in the feeling themselves.
After writing this, there is again some mild sensation of resistance, but this time there is seeing of what happens: a subtle , rapid and not clearly defined thought comes up saying something like " I don t get why I can t fully see it, what is my problem?" and then a sensation of contraction happens.

There is only the experience of holding-back, and then a thought saying “I am resisting.”

Normally the sequence it s like you described, but now there is seeing of the opposite, first a really fast and undefined thought, then a sensation generated in response to the thought, or so it seems. Maybe everything happen so fast sometimes that it s all mixed up, I don t know.

"Right now…
sensations appear.thoughts appear. lightness, heaviness, clarity, fog... all appearing.
Where is the experiencer?Not as a theory. Where is it now?"

No experiencer found, despite long looking. For a moment there was touching of a nothingness, words are anyway useless to describe the real essence of anything, not only of this nothingness. And the funny thing is that how I experience myself most of the time is just words, with attached a feeling. Long stretches of silence. As long as there is observing, there is no doer or owner of anything, there is not even anyone that desire to see no self. As soon as any thought is believed, the doing machine starts again, but it s not a doer, no one that believes, it s a chain reaction with nobody initiating it. Even this words are being written out of nowhere.
Don t know where it comes from, but there is a desire to share this now with you, without waiting to reply to everything. I will continue after sharing, maybe, there seems to be no planning. There was never a plan, no one to decide anything.
Thanks May for each moment of clarity,
Alessio

[Aletree19]

Going back to the questions>

"Look now: Does that sentence have an owner? Does it belong to anyone?"

Long stretches of silence again. No one that decides when and which kind of thoughts come up in the silence or when to start writing again. No sentence, only single words coming up one after the other. There is not even remembering of what it was written or answered few minutes ago. Maybe is not essential now to remember?

"When you say “I need more seeing,”is that anything more than a thought with a feeling attached?"

There is nothing to be done , because there is no one doing it. Even now, these words are just typed, subtle thoughts come up saying " you are just acting like you now realised something, it s just an act", but there is no "I" found that act, only words written and thoughts judging the words. Feeling of freedom , few tears going out. Seems like even this search is non sense. It was initiated by no one, carried on by desire of something that was just imagined, fueled by an imaginary finish line, with the ridicolous purpose to put a definition of an "I" on something, but it is just a word. Words are just description of something real, but in this case there is no real thing being described, only a process, really messy process ahahah. I have to say , also a beautiful process. It s funny that I am trying since years to go out of this crazy vortex of thoughts and emotions, because there was always seeing that it s not a real way of living, and now that is been seen more clearly it appears almost beautiful. I have to say everything is beautiful right now.

"If that thought doesn’t get believed, what remains?
Just silence. Just aliveness. Just movement without a mover.,, isn't it?
Right now, without touching thought, is there anything that could be called “Alessio”?"

But who believes? Believing happens and honestly there is no way of defining what is "believing", it is so fuzzy. Is believing another way of thinking? Honestly there is no interest in understanding at the moment.

"Is there a self anywhere?
Look until the answer is not conceptual, not logical... but obvious.
Then tell me: Does a self exist in any way, shape, or form, or was it always only a story?

Right now there are thoughts describing the moment, but they are not the I. They just describe things, but they don t decide anything, they are not generated by anyone, they don t imply any I. There is seeing of thoughts passing, but there is no one seeing. Long stretches of silence, feeling of aliveness in the body, but no one claiming the aliveness.
Now there was a pretty intense moment, where the heart started to beat like hell, and the looking became so deep that everything slowed down drastically. It was seen that under the thoughts there is nothing, they are just word. By nothing I mean nothing, no feeling, no sensation behind the eyes, nothing. It was so clear that there was no doubt that there is no self, even the assumption of a self would be silly in that looking. It s only because it was taught and conditioned with other words to see a self under the words-thoughts that an imaginary "I" was seen.
The thing is that I don t know if there is full seeing of this, but despite this the funny thing is that there is no going back anyway, I can t fully believe anymore in an I. Even if this inquiry will continue indefinetly, there is now way to go back to fully believe in the existence of an I, or maybe yes, with some heavy psychopharmacological drug or with a really bad fall on the head :)
Thank you May, deeply.
I will keep you posted, if there is some reversion into believing, but who believes what? That a word is a physical and real entity? ahah
There is anyway still desire to fully explore all the possible angles of this imaginary I. Although now, looking at it, which angles? there is nothing, and nothing is nothing from any angle you look at it.
Alessio

[Aletree19]

Hi May

sorry to write so much, just wanted to say that at the moment it feels like I just finished a ride on a rollercoaster. There is an uninterrupted tickling sensation on the skin since half an hour and there are so many pauses between thoughts that there is even struggling in writing text or answering messages to friends. Is it what it feels like? It feels like aliveness itself and it doesn t work at all like the usual "I", but words can t describe it.
There was just the desire to share.
Thank you for this aliveness and this shared experience

Alessio

[Maylson]

Hey, Alessio,

Good!!! Everything you wrote shows one thing clearly: the structure that used to call itself “me” is losing its last foothold. But don’t get seduced by the intensity. Don’t cling to the beauty or the weirdness. Don’t chase the silence or the aliveness. Those are just the side effects of dropping a fiction that was believed for decades.

Let’s go straight into the heart of what you’re describing.

You noticed that sometimes sensations come first, sometimes thoughts come first, sometimes they show up together... and you’re trying to see which comes before which. Look closely:

Does it matter?
Does the order of appearance imply a self?
Or is it all just spontaneous activity with no owner at all?

If a thought appears and a sensation follows... does that create a “me”?
If a sensation appears and a thought follows... does that create a “me”?
If they arise together... does that create anything??

See the point:
Sequence doesn’t create a self. Belief doesn’t create a self. Nothing creates a self because there’s nothing to create.

You described a moment where everything slowed down and the “I” simply wasn’t there.
Exactly. And notice: that clarity didn’t require effort. It happened on its own.

Then thought tries to catch up, to comment, to integrate.
Let it. Thought cannot rebuild a self unless you claim what it says.

Now let’s cut the last illusion directly:

When you say there is

“desire to share,”

who does the desire belong to?
Look right now:
Is there a “someone” wanting anything?
Or is there just movement, appearing spontaneously?

The same with this:

“I can’t believe I took this seriously for years.”

Look at that sentence.
Is there an “I” in it, or is it just a thought floating past?
A vibration, an echo?

You’ve already seen it:

There was never a believer. There was only believing.

Not someone doing it or stopping it...
Just a movement happening on its own.

Now you described the rollercoaster sensation, the tickling, the space between thoughts.
Listen carefully:

This is not “what it feels like.”
This is just what’s happening.
Sensations, clarity, spaciousness... none of them mean anything about a self or no-self.

Don’t grab them.
Don’t interpret them.
Don’t elevate them.
Don’t try to hold onto them.

They are simply more experiences arising in the absence of an owner.

Now I want you to look at the most important point:

You said

there’s no going back.

Good. But look:

Who could go back?
Who could lose anything?
Who could forget?

Right now !!! in the immediacy of this moment !!!
show me where a self could even fit.

Not in thought, memory, sensation.
Not in aliveness.

Look now:

Is there any entity - any center - that exists?

Or was the “I” always nothing more than a word hovering over experience?

Stay here.
Stay raw.
Stay with the nakedness of what’s happening.
No conclusions.
No spiritual identity.
Don’t put any of this on a pedestal.


I’m here.
Keep looking from where nothing is holding on.

[Aletree19]

Hi May,
thanks for keep bringing back the focus to looking each time to what s happening now.

"Does it matter? Does the order of appearance imply a self?
Or is it all just spontaneous activity with no owner at all?"

All happening by itself. Thoughts come up, sensations come up, no one that brings them into existence. They just happen.

"You described a moment where everything slowed down and the “I” simply wasn’t there.
Exactly. And notice: that clarity didn’t require effort. It happened on its own."

Exactly, there is no need of effort because there is no one making effort, only thoughts that believe another thought that says " I need to put more effort", and the following thought take the first as generated by a me. But the effort drop spontaneuosly when it s seen that there is no me. This is what happened when I wrote the previous message. Now, everytime there is a looking at the thoughts and behind the thoughts, there is a natural relaxation and easyness, nothing intense as the experience that happened two days ago, but it doesn t matter, an experience is just a wave. Behind all, there is no one even enjoying it, only enjoyment or sense or aliveness being itself.

"Then thought tries to catch up, to comment, to integrate.
Let it. Thought cannot rebuild a self unless you claim what it says."

Yes, this is exactly what happened the following day, thoughts were trying to rationalize what happened, but it s their nature and function. There was definetely less struggle against them, were just passing by lightly.

"Who does the desire belong to? Look right now: Is there a “someone” wanting anything?
Or is there just movement, appearing spontaneously?"

That s the thing, it was just a spontaneous desire to share , with no one behind. Actually , it didn t seem personal, was just aliveness wanting to share aliveness.
Looking right now, there is no desire and no one desiring. It seems that even the desiring of seeing no self is disappearing or at least becoming milder, but there is still the same or even more enjoyment in looking. Not as something specific, but just looking. Everything appears spontaneously, there is an illusion of a me wanting and doing only when there is no looking.

"Thought cannot rebuild a self unless you claim what it says."

Went back to read again this sentence and I was wondering who this "I" that claim thoughts is. There is just silence.

"Look at that sentence.
Is there an “I” in it, or is it just a thought floating past?A vibration, an echo?"

Yes , just a thought rationalizing and describing the surprise of this discovery and trying to own it. But a thought can t own anything, any experience, it s just a series of words.

"This is not “what it feels like.”This is just what’s happening.
Sensations, clarity, spaciousness... none of them mean anything about a self or no-self. Don’t grab them. Don’t interpret them. Don’t elevate them.Don’t try to hold onto them."

Thank you , thank you so much for this coming back to reality, here. No need to idolize an experience, every experience is already perfectly complete, it exist, without having to be out of the ordinary. Actually , what is ordinary and what is out of the ordinary? All mental circus.

"Who could go back? Who could lose anything?Who could forget?
Right now !!! in the immediacy of this moment !!! show me where a self could even fit."

Looking right now, again for a fraction of a second there was seeing that there is nobody here, like not even subtle sensations that reminds of an I , no looker , no sensation behind the eyes, then thoughts came to claim and describe the experience. Looking at a vein on one of the hands, it beats by itself under the skin, the thought spring up by themselves now without anyone controlling them . Everything runs by itself, like a machine. Thoughts again coming up trying to control all of this and make sense of it, as well all automatic.

"Is there any entity - any center - that exists?"

There is constant looking now even when the body do its own thing, the thoughts don t appear in these moments, only when the hands write. Only a sense of subtle aliveness remain, blood flowing around, but not owned by anybody, it is just another sensation.

"Or was the “I” always nothing more than a word hovering over experience?"

When the illusion of I, there is focusing and contraction of the entire experience only to a narrow part, basically only around the words/thoughts .Now it s not only a suspect that it s an illusion, although really strong and convincing. Honestly, when there is the effort in trying to see where this "I" is and it s not found, the only subtle "I "that remains is the one that is trying to see and look. But again, it s was already seen few days ago and also in this session for brief moments that there is no one that is even looking. It s an habit. It s an habit!!! It s like everything else, an automatic process! The I that is looking is just an automatic belief or thought or whatever it s defined that spring up by itself.
The "I" continues to shift as soon as whatever was the habitual me is seen directly. Sometimes all this movement stops by itself and then it s seen that there is no I anywhere. Writing helps to see when the illusion of I tries to recreate itself , hiding in a "doer", that is only a thought, with no one behind generating it.

[Maylson]

Alessio! How are you right now? :)

So...

You already see that everything is happening on its own... the “looker” is just a habit. You already see that thought only comments after the fact and there’s no center anywhere. Right?

So now I want you to look now, not analyze:

Is there a self
here
right now?

Not in thought.
Not in memory.
Not in sensation.
Check the actual experience of this moment:

Is anyone behind the eyes?
Anyone doing the looking?
Anyone owning the aliveness?
Anyone writing these words?
Anyone controlling anything at all?

Look.
Only that.

Then tell me:

What exactly is left of Alessio, in direct experience?

[Aletree19]

Hi May,

How are you right now? :)

Good, relaxed and cozy morning at home, you?

"Is there a self here right now?

Not in thought. Not in memory.Not in sensation."
Right now, there are few moments when even the subtle "me" sensation disappear or becomes another sensation like the others. thoughts try to rationalize after the seeing. There is nothing, and all the answers that come up are just other garbage thoughts. In direct experience it s not found.

"Is anyone behind the eyes? "

No, there are not even eyes right now, only imagined or assumed

"Anyone doing the looking? Anyone owning the aliveness?

Honestly, there is no looking, things simply exist right now. Things exist spontaneously without anyone looking at them. Aliveness just is. Thoughts try to find someone observing but there is no one. Looking at what was written in the few sentences before, rationally it doesn t make sense, but in direct experience it does. Content of thoughts can t validate or disprove direct experience, not even accurately describe it.

Anyone writing these words?Anyone controlling anything at all?"

No, only content of thoughts claiming ownership, but now these thoughts are just part of the experience of now.

What exactly is left of Alessio, in direct experience?

Nothing, silence. Then thoughts coming up saying " it s not being seen enough", but they are recognized as content of thought, not describing experience.