A “Me” seeing that “Me” dont exist

[Koushik]

Everytime i look for separate self and cant find it, i have this huge space like feeling in my head. I dont know what exactly it is, maybe its from having less/no thoughts?

[Anastacia42]

I have paid very close attention to the feeling and everytime i look and cant find a separate self, i feel very relaxed, expansive and blissful sensations in head and chest area. I used to experience these blissful sensations when i did shadow work and practiced acceptance maybe thats why i dont feel very different.

Yes. that is the truth feeling. That is part of what we are looking for. Yes, it may be like what you've experienced before. I had many many such experiences before I came to LU & saw there was no "self."

Has seeking stopped?
Loving,

[Koushik]

Has seeking stopped?

I dont know if seeking has stopped for sure but at this moment there is no desire to seek at all. I am still having this blissful sensations all over my chest and head even though i am not trying to look or inquire.

I dont know if this is a thought garbage or an insight, i had a thought, if there is no self or me thats controlling/ acting/ choosing/ experiencing anything then what is this Me or self that i took myself to be this whole life? I looked and looked, thats when another thought came in saying, i mistook this thought label(me/self) to be myself.

I’ll look more again tomorrow and write to you again if seeking has stopped.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Yes. "I" is only a thought.

Until tomorrow.

[Koushik]

There is an expectation here that, there would be a very clear event where the energetic shift happens. I dont exactly know how “i” is expecting this event to be maybe like a big energetic shift where the “I” completely drops for a few hours/days

[Koushik]

I am sorry, excuse my rambling here. If there is more seeking/doubts/expectations, arent all of them just more thoughts.Each thought comes with an automatic assumption of an existence of “Me/self” and starts looking/seeking again until its realized again that I is a thought. Its goes on and on forever in circles. But if i dont believe in thoughts or question it as soon as the I appears, i am never IN(in the circle)

[Anastacia42]

If there is more seeking/doubts/expectations, arent all of them just more thoughts.Each thought comes with an automatic assumption of an existence of “Me/self” and starts looking/seeking again until its realized again that I is a thought. Its goes on and on forever in circles. But if i dont believe in thoughts or question it as soon as the I appears, i am never IN(in the circle)

Yes. It's just thoughts. When we believe untrue thoughts we "lose it."

Watch these, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

This is just a beginning.

One model for looking at this is called Ten Fetters. At LU we only cover the first 3. There are groups outside of LU. some led by LU guides. that take it further.

Here is a list of the Fetters;:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

and some resources:

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):
Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)

📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com
⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scrochannel.

🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.
🔗 CLICK HERE TO JOIN free meetings:
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

He also has a YouTube chsnnel.

Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

They have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join.

We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

We have some traditional checkpoint questions. Let me know if you are ready to answer those.

Loving

[Koushik]

Yeah i came across the Ten fetters model. Its funny how i already know everyone of them you mentioned and already follow them & listened to them previously. I was also planning to watch Kevin's ten fetters model after i break the first fetter.

Do you want me to watch the videos and then answer checkpoint questions?

[Anastacia42]

Yes, please.

Keep answers succinct & simple please.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?

Loving

[Koushik]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

No, there is or never was a real solid entity called I

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illsuion starts from an automatic assumption of the existence a separate real "I/Me" with free will and control mainly because of language. From this assumption, the I/Me strives to control the external world with its free will by making choices. Feelings of guilt & shame(pain) arises when it cant control and proud(pleasure) arises when it thinks its succesful. All the effort goes into making this I special and unique. Everytime i tried to look through the illusion, i was doomed as i was looking from/as the "I". Once i saw as nothing but a thought and it doesnt actually exist, everything started falling. Illusion is just this unquestioned sticky identification with a thought and experiencing everything as separate.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days

It felt surprising and shocking from not being able to find a separate self as an actor/controller. Now that it settled down, i have this feeling of being free, indifferent to anything happening and yet everything being same. I may/may not have seen this already before the dialogue but doing the exercises gave new insights which lead to more clarity.

I can see the arising of the I thought as just a thought and in seeing that, there is this open expansiveness where everything arises but its impersonal and still. Before i started this dialogue, if you asked me to point where the "I" is, id have pointed to the sensation/feeling in my head but this morning when i was in this wakeful sleep state, i tried noticing that "I" sensation again and i couldn't grab it, it felt like catching smoke with my hands.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Palm flipping exercise, no matter how many times i did and looked , i couldnt find a separate controller and it was instanly clear that there never was an I except an I thought. There were doubts/expectations but its clear that, thats just more thoughts and each thought comes with an assumed I and not seeing that would lead back into illusion again.

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision happens spontaneously. There are thoughts commenting about the results of what would happen if one particular thing is decided against the other but at the decision point, the decision appears spontaneously. Thoughts about going/not going to the beach arose but at the decision point, the decision to not go happened spontaneously.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention happens spontaneously. Intention to get up and go to walmart arises automatically, there is no separate self doing it at the moment of getting up to go. If you meant intention as a thought, thought arises spontaneously as well.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is an illusion, the i did it appears after the event is done to claim it. Switching lanes while driving happens spontaneously then the claiming, "I switched the lanes". The decider/controller isnt present either who is deciding and switching the lanes.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice happens spontaneously, no separate self can be found thats making the choices. While choosing a number from 1-20, its so obvious that the number spontaneously appears and there is no self thats choosing.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

A separate self in control of actions cannot be found. While driving the car, braking and accelerating happens without a controller.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Everything happens by itself. I dont know how it works, i can consciousness but that would be another concept.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Responsbility happens like how its been happening already. Answering to my work emails, there is no controller, decider or a separate self writing & sending the email.

Thank you Stacy

[Anastacia42]

You are very welcome.

Your answers will be shared with other guides who may have questions. Stay tuned.

Loving

[Anastacia42]

No one had any questions. Our conversation here is complete.

Below are some further resources.

One model for looking at this further is called Ten Fetters. At LU we only cover the first 3. There are groups outside of LU. some led by LU guides. that take it further.

Here is a list of the Fetters;:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetter_(Buddhism)

and some resources:

Christiana Michelberger

https://findingawakening.com/about/

Vince Shubert

Weekly Free Meetup Times (Sydney, Australia time):
Saturday 9 pm,
Monday 6 am (for paid subscribers - recording only available to attendees)
Wednesday 4 pm (recorded and published on YouTube)
Friday 7 am (recording only available to attendees)
📍Check your local time: www.worldtimebuddy.com
⏱ Countdown timer for the next meeting on: www.wakingupwithvince.com (scroll down)
🧭 It’s always the same Zoom link; you can arrive late or leave early.
🔗 CLICK HERE TO JOIN free meetings:
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035

Look for Vince's YouTube Channel


Todd & Pernille Lent Damore

Yes, we still have a monthly Inquiry Group that's free, and that they are welcome to join. We actually just had one two days ago.
We also have our Discord community which is free too.

Write to:

unfetteredmindfulness@gmail.com

They have YouTube channels, aso.

Loving,

[Koushik]

Thank you very much Stacy for guiding me through the gate.

Thank you very much for all the resources too :)

[Anastacia42]

My pleasure! Creating world peace one mind at a time.

Loving