Ready to wake up

[vinceschubert]

i love it Wilding, So, keeping the perspective in your last post have another go at answering these questions.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

vince

[Wildling]

Hi Vince,

The self had quite a field day yesterday trying to grasp and panic and re-centre itself, but I'm coming back to raw experience whenever I notice - I guess all part of the process? But here goes some be answers:

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

No. None whatsoever. Nowhere. There never was. Ever.

Just a happening of experience that we build into an illusion (or rather delusion) of the self. But nowhere and at no point can this be distinguished as a separate self.

2) Describe how the illusion of an independent, self came into being by giving examples from actual experience.
Then give some experiential examples of how life changed for you after seeing through this illusion.

From before I was born and certainly immediately after the illusion of an independent self came into being by being given a name, a gender, a familial backstory and a place in a family. From this point onwards - at school, in work, and simply in day-to-day social interactions with other "selfs" the illusion of the self is perpetuated by engaging in life from a center point.

But we cannot all be the center. And if there is no one part of what makes up the illusion that is me that one can define as the self, then there can be no self.

Now that I can at points notice and see through this it seems as if those wondering around as selves are just play acting. And engaging in life as if they have a purpose or a place to be. But - as I sit and watch people walking to work - there is in essence no difference in their movements and those of the leaves swaying on the trees or the birds in the sky. They just are.

And there is no "they"

This is just a game we play to feel more in control, more important and more vital than we are.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It feels grounding and reassuring to see this. A letting go. An unraveling.

It comes and goes and, as I say, yesterday I got swept up in lots of problems of the self - work, cleaning and packing to move house. If there is any obvious difference it's that these "self-centred" times now seem more distinct as I have a calmer reality to compare them with.

But when I remember, when I notice and can come back to raw experience it feels lighter and there is a definite release of physical tension. It's like seeing life through a different lens...or rather seeing life through know lens.

Seeing rather than feeling.

4) Can you remember any specific inquiry that resulted in an epiphany? ..a before and after seeing the actuality of the Self. Was there a point when you ‘got it’?

I don't think there was one specific point. But it was almost in realising this that I started to see. My self was waiting for an epiphany - most probably based on stories and beliefs I've acquired of how "

enlightenment

" should be. But when you pointed this out I realised that rather than waiting to gain something or experience more this helped me to realise that it is more of a letting go. Of a waking up to what was always there.

5) a) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control. What makes things happen? How does it work?
Give examples from your own recent experiences to how these things happen and how they work

.

If there is no self and there is just happening then there can be no free will. I'm struggling to put it into words without making it sound too simple. But maybe it is that simple?


It just flows.

For example, just now I dropped my pen off the balcony I was sitting on and it fell to the ground below. As if I had free will, I stated that I was going to go and retrieve the biro pen because it was nearly full and a good brand. But it is only conditioning that has formed beliefs which makes any of those things seem true.

I then went outside to get the pen, walking down two sets of stairs, picking it up off the floor and walking back inside noticing it was raining.

But again, there will be layers of conditioning and programming that instructed me to do that.

And what drove me to seemingly make the choice to go back inside? Was it because I wanted to or because that it where the self has been conditioned to reside?

Or is it that the particles that make up the mass of energy I call the self flow towards the best conditions for optimal survival?

And in this sense, everything just flows, with an inmate knowing of what happens next.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

If everything just is, then surely nothing. There is no responsibility if everything is simply existing. Because to whom or what would the responsibility be?

Surely the notion of responsibility comes into play when the illusion of the self creates rules and structures to generate a false sense of control.

For example, when I was employed by my last work place, I was "responsible" to my manager for arriving at 9am. But the second I was perceived to no longer be working under that "contract" I was no longer "responsible" to them for anything. It was simply the manufactured rules and structures put in place in the game that was that job which gave my delusional self the perceived sense of responsibility.

But if I walk down the road and a bird walking on the pavement moves out of my path, it is not because it feels a responsibility to do so. Neither does the blossom on the trees bloom because it feels responsible in springtime.

Everything just is.

6) Anything to add?

Just concern that I've got it all wrong. But fascinating nonetheless.

With thanks,

Wilding.

[vinceschubert]

Hi Wilding, i have submitted your answers to other guides to see if they find anything that i might have missed.
If there is agreement that you have experienced an initial shift and recognized the illusory nature of a Self your forum name will be turned blue.
It marks the beginning of a 'journey' that will continue while ever curiosity is active.
A good way to keep this alive is to guide (pay it forward) Tell me if this interests you.
To encourage and facilitate your continuing discovery, I am inviting you to attend zoom meetings that happen 4 times each week where this (discovery) is experienced by likeminded others.
Email me if you woud like to be added you to the notification list. (vinceschubert@gmail.com)
There is a meetup every Saturday at 9 pm (Sydney Australia time)
and one each Monday 7 am ( Sydney Australia time)
and each Wednesday at 4 pm (Sydney Australia time)
and every Friday 8 am (Sydney time) - never published.
You can check your local time here: https://www.worldtimebuddy.com

Please note that it's always the same time on the same link. 
Arriving late and leaving early is fine.
Click here to Join Zoom Meeting 
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09
You're welcome to just turn up for these. (more than welcome - i encourage it)

much love

vince

[Wildling]

Hi Vince,

Thank you so much for your guidance and support. This has been an incredible experience and I have deep gratitude for all that you have offered me.

A good way to keep this alive is to guide (pay it forward) Tell me if this interests you.

I would be very interested in doing this. Please do let me know how I might proceed.

And I will absolutely be coming to your zoom meetings. I am currently in the process of relocating across the country, but as soon as I'm settled I look forward to meeting.

With lasting gratitude,

Wilding.

[vinceschubert]

hi Wilding, i have started the process for you to guide. i am happy to mentor you.
We just need to wait for Admin to process everything. Your forum name will be red. When it turns red you're good to go.
Friend me on Facebook so i can invite you to Guide Central (and you can message me directly on Messenger)
When you get access to LU Guide Central, there are files on guiding (up top under a link called files - duh) If you're inclined, we can have a zoom call about guiding. set it up here; https://calendly.com/vinceschubert/1on1-free

much love

vince

[Wildling]

Hi Vince,

My apologies for not responding sooner. I've been taking my time to just land since moving house, but contacting you has been in the back of my mind and I've been continuing to keep my focus with everything we've explored together so far.

I'm planning to come to your online session tomorrow (Wednesday) for an hour, as continued support with others undergoing similar explorations right now feels crucial.

I'd also still love to explore becoming a guide so that I can support others. Unfortunately I don't have Facebook but can connect with you via email or WhatsApp if that works. And your continued support and guidance as a mentor would be gratefully received insomuch as you're able to offer.

I'll take a look at the guidance on the LU forum for now and very much look forward to meeting you tomorrow in the online session.

Warm regards,

Wilding (Cat)