The spectator self, at the very least :)

[Daaf]

Hi Rali,

Seems like I lost my draft... so be it...

Here we go again.

How can “you” maintain it if you are not in control of it? Will “you” ever be in control of it? Do you believe that there is an I that can wake up or be awake?
What is it that could be awake?
What is it that awakening could happen TO?

Good point. There is nothing to maintain or hold on to it. It's not about awakening; it's not about anything. It just is (or isn't rather).

Is there someone separate form life, waiting to wake up to reality?
Is there someone who needs to let go of conceptualization?
Or letting go happens on its own effortlessly, when the futility of trying to grasp what is with thoughts is recognized?

No. No. And Yes!

Does the sensation on its own know anything about “fear”, “joy”, “happy”, “sad”? Is it possible that sensations are just appearing and thoughts “jump” to identify them as these? Can a thought do anything (cause a sensation) if it can only try to describe whatever is happening?
Is there cause and effect without thought content? If there is only now, where could possibly cause and effect happen? Are senses and/or thoughts linked together?

No. Sensations are blind.

Yes. Sensations appear and only through thought do they get 'label' or 'meaning'.

Hmmm. A thought can cause a sensations. But it is only through feeding this sensation back into a thought that this sensation has meaning; and without it it ceases to exist; or never exists in the first place.

In the now there is no cause and effect.

Thoughts are senses are not linked together as they can only appear in the NOW. Associations are imagined rather than real.

Do sight and sensation appear simultaneously? Do they appear separately? Do they depend on each other? Is there a link between them?
Can the senses be isolated without thought content? Is the knowing of each of them separate or it’s knowing of seeing_hearing_tasting_sensing_smelling_thinking / experience?

Yes, they appear simultaneously.

No, they don't depend on each other and there is no link.

No isolation is possible without thought content.

So, are you not aware of the thought content, then? What is the difference between “automatic” awareness and “conscious” awareness? Isn’t it all automatic and thoughts defining it as something? Let me ask you again, are you in control of noticing/being aware?

Not in control. Awareness is always there. Thinking about awareness just brings it to the foreground.

Noticing of thought content happens and noticing of DE happens. Is the one better than the other one? Better for whom? Also, does "awareness" "debunks thought content? Isn't the "debunking" also thought content? Does thought need a "thinker" to appear, or is it self-organising?

Thinking is just happening. Thought content needn't be debunked (and debunking is but another thought). Both DE and thought content flow through consciousness; ever changing. Insofar as not labelled (by a thought), both DE and thought content are perfectly neutral; the result of 'neutral' happening that is all there is.

Really? Thoughts reside in the head? Please LOOK. Close your eyes and observe. A thought appears. Does it have a location? Does it appear in a certain place and disappear out of that place? How are the sensations “head” linked to thoughts? What is that connection made of? Do the sensations “head” have a location?

No, they have no location and no 'sensation-mark'.

Head-sensations come in all kinds of forms and are located around the 'head'. But it is only the thought that makes for head-sensation to be something specific. In reality it's integrated with all other sensations that appear then disappear.

How is it known that thinking produces those sensations? Is there any link without thought content? We’ve taken so many things for granted, it’s time to inspect everything through looking. Can a thought do anything besides describing what is happening? Can a thought feel (sensation), see, hear, etc?

There is no link without thought content. Thinking as such produces no sensations. A thought can only describe/ label.

Where are these entities that are subject to the content (without thought content)? What "pays attention" to the stories? Again, what identifies with the stories, what is outside of thinking and believes it? You say the imagined self… Can an imagined entity do things? Is there really “believing”/”getting stuck” or there is just thinking ABOUT believing?

There is just thinking about all of it (sensations; thought content) that results in something, which again is either sensation or thought, and therefore neutral and impermanent. And all there is. Just things happening. No subject nor object.

Is there such a thing as “transitory awareness”? Is there anything in your experience that is not experienced? Are there certain moments when there is no consciousness? How are these moments known, then? If there is an element of THIS that is always present that is the knowing element (knowing(aware)_hearing_seeing_thinking_smelling_tasting_sensing (THIS))

No. Awareness is always there. Experiencing continuously occurs. As one flow; not in separation.

Really? How is this experienced? Can sensations think, see, hear, taste, etc? What makes thinking happen? What makes sensations happen?
Look at the clouds in the sky. Are they moving according to anyone's direction? How is the appearance of thoughts, sensations, colours, sounds, etc different from the movement of the clouds?

Sensations without labelling are neutral (as long as we're not in pain :)). Sensations just happen. Thinking just happens. Like the clouds.

Thanks!

All my love,
David

[poppyseed]

Hi David
Good to have you back ;)

Both DE and thought content flow through consciousness; ever changing.

Again, is “awareness” a container for sensations (colours, thoughts, sounds, etc)? Are there “solid” sensations flowing around, “emerging and fading”? LOOK!

No. Awareness is always there. Experiencing continuously occurs. As one flow; not in separation.

"Awareness” concentrates on the “aware” aspect of experiencing, giving it more weight – where all “elements” play a vital “part”. To isolate one element and give it a special place feels wrong - more like the domain of thought. Also, the “term” seems to kind of “solidify” otherwise an indiscernible and indescribable nature of reality, but also creating a subject which experiences objects (awareness doing the experienceing :) ). In Buddhism, form is emptiness, and emptiness is form", and "thusness" or "suchness," is referring to the nature of reality free from conceptual elaborations and the subject–object distinction. I have a zen background and that is why I select usually people with that background to guide, so in a way we speak the same “language”:)
Anyway...
At this point, it will be a good DE exercise to get out for an actual walk in nature and observe interconnectedness. See how ALL is moving interdependently, including thinking and the senses. Hold these questions in mind:
Is there anything that is separate from everything else?
Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought? Is that interdependent movement outside of you? Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?
Is there an owner of being?
Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?
Is there a “you”?
Love
Rali

[Daaf]

Hi Rali,

Haha, I’ve never been gone; only away. Indulging in and Enduring Direct Experience 😊.

Thanks for the comments

Again, is “awareness” a container for sensations (colours, thoughts, sounds, etc)? Are there “solid” sensations flowing around, “emerging and fading”? LOOK!

Awareness = sensations, sounds, colours, thoughts. Nothing more, nothing less.

Is there anything that is separate from everything else?

No. All is a continuum without beginning or end, without discretion and without direction.

Is there a border that divides “me” and “my body” from everything else, or is it just a thought?

No. It’s just a thought.

Is that interdependent movement outside of you?

It’s both within and outside. It makes no difference.

Is there an “inside” and an “outside”?

Not really. No

Is there an owner of being?

No.

Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?

No. Only a bunch of conditioned beings that work on auto-referral.

Is there a “you”?

No. Only a conditioned being that realises that, in fact, there is nothing singular, nothing isolated, nothing personal. Only ‘happening’, within and outside.

All my love,
David

[poppyseed]

Hi David

Awareness = sensations, sounds, colours, thoughts. Nothing more, nothing less.

I’m assuming taste and smell are part of it too :)). You see this “smells” like a teaching to me and not DE (we agreed to leave these behind by the way). Describe how is this relationship observed through the senses (not thought content) - because anything else would be a believe, right? In “my” DE there is all of it - awareness, sounds, tastes, smells, thoughts, colours and sensations (or THIS for short). When you say: “Awareness = sensations, sounds, colours, thoughts” suggests that on one side you have the awareness as a subject (the observer) and the other side you have sensations, sounds, colours, thoughts (and tastes and smells). That sounds very much like a teaching (thought content) because in reality there is only THIS/What IS/life. Only thought can separate it into neat little descriptions and believe them to be real. Do you agree??? Can the awareness of seeing be separated from the seeing? Can there be awareness without object?

Is that interdependent movement outside of you?

It’s both within and outside. It makes no difference.

Is there a refence point for within or outside? Where is it? If a “body” is a label for sensations, where is the within and where is outside?

Are there others? Is there an “I” in others?

No. Only a bunch of conditioned beings that work on auto-referral.

Really? How are those conditioned “beings” observed in DE (5senses)? What is the DE of “others”? Is “being” personal – my being, your being? Is life happening to a being or as being? Is there my life and your life? How is this known in DE?

No. All is a continuum without beginning or end, without discretion and without direction.

There is a general assumption that there is linear time that started (if started at all) somewhere very far in the past and advances to the distant future. The present moment (now) is considered to be a very small fragment of time, or an event that is moving forward on a linear line, coming from the past and advancing to the future.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time?
Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next?
Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?
How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?
Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?
How long does the ‘now’ last?
Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?
What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?
So is there actual experience of ‘time’/'continuum' or thoughts about ‘time’/'continuum'?
Love
Rali

[Daaf]

HI Rali,

Thanks a lot!

Hmmm, tricky.

Here we go:

I see that all there is is the experiencing. But that doesn't mean I live in this lofty realm every second of the day now.

Do you agree??? Can the awareness of seeing be separated from the seeing? Can there be awareness without object?

I fully agree. No, if so, it's a thought labelling the activity, not a DE.

Awareness without object. Hmmm. Semantics I believe. It's without subject-object dynamics, which merge. It's what's happening/ what is experienced of ... , but - again - it's the merging.

DE awareness is limited to the DE; and - as such - as you mentioned, nothing at all like 'mediation awareness', which somehow portrays awareness as a fabricated recipient in which everything occurs (as opposed to the occurrence itself).

Is there a refence point for within or outside? Where is it? If a “body” is a label for sensations, where is the within and where is outside?

No.

There is no inside or outside before the thought-label. There just 'is'.

Really? How are those conditioned “beings” observed in DE (5senses)?What is the DE of “others”?

As sounds and colours and touch and smells and taste, ds. Trying it out with daughters number 2 and 3 (who are supposed to nap while I write) on this very moment...

Is “being” personal – my being, your being? Is life happening to a being or as being? Is there my life and your life? How is this known in DE?

There is only being in DE. No 'my being', just being that at any moment is all there is. My life inexistant in DE.

But is there an experience of the ’now’ moving along the line of time? Any experience of one ‘moment’ giving way to the next? Is there any actual or direct experience of one event following another?

No

How fast is the ‘present moment’ actually moving?

No

Just look at 'this moment', can you find a point where it began?

No

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Forever

Where does the ‘now’ start, and where does it end?
When does the ‘now’ exactly become the 'past'?

It doesn't

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Non-existent

So is there actual experience of ‘time’/'continuum' or thoughts about ‘time’/'continuum'?

No

Love,
David

[poppyseed]

Hi David

[Hi David

I see that all there is is the experiencing. But that doesn't mean I live in this lofty realm every second of the day now.

OK what is that “I” that chooses which realm to live in? Can you see that what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense. Can you choose to ignore thoughts, can you choose to believe them? I don’t want you to just say “No” or “yes”. Just LOOK and see (remember, keys). There are thoughts about believing, being stuck, not being there yet and so on, but is there an entity that really is stuck or not there yet. There are still “seeking” thoughts but is there a seeker? Do you see the difference? It takes time for the thought flow to change entirely – all that conditioning did not happen overnight so it won’t undo itself in a day, but are you the conditioned one or these are “conditioned” thoughts – thoughts that appear more often? Can you do anything to stop them?
When someone we know dies, it takes time for that to "sink in". It's not that we don't believe that the person has died. It is just they are still part of our lives - we open the wardrobe and their clothes are still there, we walk in the park and we remember when we used to do it together. It takes time to readjust our lives to living without them. That process of “sinking in” can be observed in many other situations – like being diagnosed with a life changing disease, losing a job that we had for a long time etc. Even though the change is sudden and quick, it can be perceived as a long process – it can feel as though something is still sinking in, or hasn’t yet sunk in.

The point applies equally to habitual patterns of thought and activity, which similarly reflect how our lives are organised. When the established patterns of a life are disturbed, thought cannot adapt to all of this in an instant, simply by revising all of our old beliefs. Much of the old organisation lingers on, in the guise of a world that we continue to experience and in habitual patterns of thought and activity that our surroundings continue to elicit. That very much applies to seeing the illusion of an “I” - it’s quite a sudden change with a relatively long process of adapting to this change. The recognition of no self is just the beginning of seeing life and “yourself” in a new light. It takes time to clean up all old beliefs and conditioning.

To “deal” with this, question everything, and little by little you will notice changes in everyday life: less judgment, more openness; less thinking, more appreciation; less story, more being; less structure, more flow. You will notice that some habitual thoughts no longer arise. The story changes in a way that allows more space for simply being.
There might still be expectations, confusion, and doubt. That’s quite normal at this stage. You may be swaying between “I get it” and “I don’t get it.” You may be thinking that this is not enough, that some experiences need to happen, that you should be happy and blissful all the time. When these thoughts arise, bring the focus to what is present here now. Just THIS. And look again: what is here that wants THIS to be different (including the presence of doubtful thoughts)?

You can find this video quite helpful in this regard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD58 ... ex=28&t=1s

DE awareness is limited to the DE; and - as such - as you mentioned, nothing at all like 'mediation awareness', which somehow portrays awareness as a fabricated recipient in which everything occurs (as opposed to the occurrence itself).

Good!!!

As sounds and colours and touch and smells and taste, ds. Trying it out with daughters number 2 and 3 (who are supposed to nap while I write) on this very moment...

Very good! You can experiment with that further. When you touch someone are there two sensations – one of the other person and one of you, or just one labelled “other/someone”? This doesn’t mean that they are no real, it just mean that thought is telling us the wrong story. There are sensations, smells, colours, sounds, tastes :), labelled “other”

How long does the ‘now’ last?

Forever

Is there “forever”? That still implies “time”

What is the ‘past’ in actual experience?

Non-existent

Actually “past” exists only as thought.

So is there still seeking? How is life these days?

Love
Rali

[Daaf]

Hi Rali,

Thanks a lot!!

OK what is that “I” that chooses which realm to live in? Can you see that what you’re saying doesn’t make any sense.

Yes, didn't put it right. Thought content often runs along these old patterns. Thinking is happening. No 'I' to find.

Can you choose to ignore thoughts, can you choose to believe them?

Yes. Thinking happens automatically. Thought content can be ignored or believed (by other thought content). The fact is only thinking is experienced in DE.

There are still “seeking” thoughts but is there a seeker? Do you see the difference?

Yes. Entirely. Seeking thoughts is thought content. No seeker. Just more thinking.

Paradoxically enough, as I cannot find the thinker, or seeker, there should be no effect of these thoughts; yet, in reality, there is (as you and the video describe).

To “deal” with this, question everything, and little by little you will notice changes in everyday life: less judgment, more openness; less thinking, more appreciation; less story, more being; less structure, more flow. You will notice that some habitual thoughts no longer arise. The story changes in a way that allows more space for simply being.

Love it

When these thoughts arise, bring the focus to what is present here now. Just THIS. And look again: what is here that wants THIS to be different (including the presence of doubtful thoughts)?

Yes. Great

You can find this video quite helpful in this regard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD58 ... ex=28&t=1s

Very helpful

When you touch someone are there two sensations – one of the other person and one of you, or just one labelled “other/someone”?

Absolutely, 1 sensation!

Is there “forever”?

Now = ever = outside of time

So is there still seeking? How is life these days?

There is no seeker :), so what is there to seek? There is a lot of what you mentioned above ('into the nothingness, the being' then back into the 'former infrastructure').

Feeling good (despite a vicious cold). Light, spacious, immersed in DE:)

Thanks a lot, Rali!

Love,
David

[poppyseed]

Hi David

What a wonderful reply! Very happy :)

Yes. Thinking happens automatically. Thought content can be ignored or believed (by other thought content). The fact is only thinking is experienced in DE.

Yes!! But can thoughts actually do anything – ignore, believe? It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

There is no seeker :), so what is there to seek? There is a lot of what you mentioned above ('into the nothingness, the being' then back into the 'former infrastructure').

Feeling good (despite a vicious cold). Light, spacious, immersed in DE:)

Great stuff!!

Let’s have a look at the idea of control, choice and decisions. Please explore the three exercises below and report your findings

1. Hold a hand in front of you; palm turned down. Now turn the palm up. And down...and up and so on.
2. Put two objects that you like in front of you (e.g. a cup of coffee and a glass of juice), then pick up one or the other, while paying attention to the whole process of choosing.
Watch like a hawk. Don't go to thoughts, examine the actual experience. Do this as many times as you like, and each time inquire…
How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over? Track any decision point when a thought MADE THE DECISION to turn the hand over.

3. Can you take me through a decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it? How did it come to be? Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen. If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same? How many of these conditions were outside of your influence? What was in your control (according to thought)?
Please give me some details about your decision making...

Love
Rali

[Daaf]

Hi Rali,

Hahaha, step by step 😊!

My computer crashed again at final moment… have to look into this. Herewith slightly abbreviated version :).

And was travelling, but finally made it to the hotel. Tomorrow may be difficult as entire 'work-shop' day (here in Valencia). Wednesday and Thursday should work.

But can thoughts actually do anything – ignore, believe? It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence. Or is it just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that "one thought follows another thought"?

Thoughts seem to happen randomly. Not as sequenced or structured as we make ourselves believe via just another thought that comes after we’ve surfed the meandering thought-voyage and 'fabricates the order'.

How is the movement controlled?
Does a thought control it?
Can a ‘controller’ or and entity that is choosing be located?
How is the decision made to turn the hand over?

Exercises:

1 and 2:

I cannot identify what moves the hand, or picks up the object. It’s not a thought; there's no controller. It’s sort of a reflex. Like jumping in a pool.

The choice for one of 2 desirable objects equally easy to reach is not the product of careful thought-processes (‘a contradiction of sorts’), but rather also an impulse following some random, inconclusive, uncoordinated thoughts.

Can you take me through a decision that you made recently - not something very personal so you share more details about it? How did it come to be? Consider all of the conditions that were necessary for it to happen.

A recent decision I made is to start a ‘business’, while trying to keep my current job. It consists of giving investors access to top-notch Venture Capital Funds in exchange for a fee. I am teaming up with my brother-in-law to do this.

Conditions were manifold.

A) I know investors and know and have access to top-notch Venture Capital Funds. And for some time I had been thinking I should somehow monetise this (since limited extra effort, and (potentially) some nice financial gains

B) However, the importance to me of keeping my current job, as well as fear of failure, limited appetite for the extra work-load and mental pressure, and general inertia, had prevented me from taking action.

Then a couple of things happened/ developed

C) Internal processes at work became increasingly frustrating, less rewarding and – most importantly – increasingly wrapped in ‘negativity’.

D) A superb opportunity presented itself as I obtained access to a very very good VC Fund

E) My brother-in-law ran into some financial misfortune for which I felt responsible (as I had made the introduction). I wanted to do him a favour.

F) Turning 40 this year, and the itch to build something and be more independent grew

The combination of these things produced just enough (‘the right’) energy to get started.

G) Still had to clear this with my current employer, which worked, although it now seems my growth-trajectory with that employer may be impaired somewhat. Yet, I was not going to turn back anymore

If any one of those conditions were different, would the outcome have been the same?

Not sure if all the conditions needed to be met. It seems like the combination at least had an effect on timing and tempo. And it may well have been so that 1 condition not being present, would have resulted in this not happening. But it’s not a certainty. In the end, it’s impulsive.

How many of these conditions were outside of your influence? What was in your control (according to thought)?

Most, if not all, were largely outside of my influence; as well as being heavily influenced by my perception related to these conditions.

The decision itself was in my control, although this too seems like it is largely the result of impulsive actions and reactions that got the ball rolling, leading to further actions and reactions. Not so much the product of purely rational thought and weighing and sequencing.

Thanks a lot, Rali!

Love,
David

[poppyseed]

Hi David
Very good!

Not sure if all the conditions needed to be met. It seems like the combination at least had an effect on timing and tempo. And it may well have been so that 1 condition not being present, would have resulted in this not happening. But it’s not a certainty. In the end, it’s impulsive.

Most, if not all, were largely outside of my influence; as well as being heavily influenced by my perception related to these conditions.

The decision itself was in my control, although this too seems like it is largely the result of impulsive actions and reactions that got the ball rolling, leading to further actions and reactions. Not so much the product of purely rational thought and weighing and sequencing.

Yes! They are impulsive, but even in thought content there is no decision. The point of the third exercise was to look entirely in thought content where cause and effect “live” and see that even there there’s no “you” making a decision. It was just one event leading to another, leading to another, with actions based on previous conditioning (trial and error). The thought “decision is made” is layered on top of other thoughts/beliefs/descriptions of what has happened before. Ultimately, as you said, when you check your DE, there is no “I”/entity that makes a decision and there are no causes and effects (just stories). It’s just THIS.
You might find this video interesting
https://vimeo.com/90101368?fbclid=IwAR3

Is there anything else we can explore together? If not we have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?

Love
Rali

[Daaf]

Hi Rali,

Amazing; thanks!

Is there anything else we can explore together? If not we have some traditional final questions. Would you like to answer those?

Yes, let's have the final questions :)!!

Thanks a lot for everything!

All the best,
David

[poppyseed]

Hi David
Awesome! Here are the final questions. Please answer all questions in full, when you are ready.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

6) Anything to add?
Love
Rali

[Daaf]

Hi Rali,

Wonderful! Thanks!

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

Whenever we look for an 'I', we fail to find one. No identifiable 'Actor' or 'Subject' can be found. And there never was.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

The illusion of a separate self is a result of our thinking minds. Thought content describes and categorises everything. It breaks everything into distinct entities - (despite the 'naked' experience of these distinct entities being experienced as a whole). By the same token, it conveys the idea a Separate Self ('I' versus 'Others'; 'I' versus 'Environment') as both an Actor (doing stuff, thinking stuff) and a Subject (feeling stuff). And since we assimilate with thought content, we believe in this Separate Self, (despite the fact that we cannot find it when looking for it).
During our lives, the incessant and self-referencing ('memory') thought content continuously bolsters this concept of a 'Separate Self'.


Now I see it as: 'reality encompasses all and is restricted to what is experienced directly (i.e. outside of any thought content) (and A) no 'Central Authority named Self' can be experienced ('there is no 'experiencer' that can be distinguished from 'experience (or experiencing)'; therefore it is a concept rather than a reality; and B) 'Time' cannot be experienced, so it too is a concept.

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

It is being felt in 2 main ways:
1) As if 'I don't mind what happens' (let's be honest: 'as if I mind less what happens') --- Liberated
2) As if the volume of the environment was turned up, and the internal volume turned down; and I am an integral part of my environment --- Joyful

Examples from last few days:
1) Plane 1 hour delayed while already in (Ryanair) plane packed with people and hot and will be later at home and ... Instead of (internally) feeling frustrated about it, it barely registered.
1) Meeting yesterday and 5 ('hotshot and older') people calling in from the US that I hadn't met, and the camera is pointed directly at me (and not at the other 4 people present)...:
The onset of 'self-consciousness' evaporated by the 'living the realisation that there is no self to protect, or promote'
2) When running the forests on the mountain-side earlier today, definitely closer, more integrated into the nature surrounding me. As if the filtering valve has been reduced
1) A specific one perhaps: When catching myself 'in my head', thinking, thinking, thinking; less judgemental as 1) thinking is Direct Experience and is neutral as such; and 2) the judgement would just be another (unnecessary) thought anyhow :)

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?

Mainly your repeated telling me to 'LOOK' and my then being able to stop linking the 'looking' to the 'thinking'!; Stop and Look; which leads me to the second point which I found to be quite helpful: fully integrating the distinction between 'realising it' and 'living it always :)', as the 'living it' requires de-conditioning. Which works via the 'Stop and Look' (the 'Question Everything').

Describe decision & give examples from experience.

Decision happens randomly based on impulses coloured by our conditioning/ our story.

E.g. I decided to have the 'croquetas' for lunch, which was based on combo of 'I won't; will go for the salad'; I will since I already had my Athletic Greens and my veggies; and I did on impulse and because I had them yesterday ('the road was open since travelled the day before').

Describe intention & give examples from experience.

Intention too is formed in the unstructured, uncontrolled echo-chambers of our thinking mind. Jolted by the (external) cues we don't realise (let alone give credit). And only cemented by a thought that establishes a specific intention; a thought we then adhere to (or not).

E.g.: I intended to run a fast marathon a couple of years ago (while my heart already lay with mountain-running)

The intention was formed by a lot of factors, including ego/ vanity; friends commenting on my saying 'in any case, if I would run one, it would be in less than 3 hours considering my running proficiency'; Work was slow and unfulfilling, so I had the time, and looked for something that would give me the satisfaction I couldn't find at work; Somebody told me about Rotterdam marathon (fast and a celebration), etc. Cue, cue, cue; plunge.

Describe free will & give examples from experience.

Free will is illusory in the sense that we attribute it to our minds; but our minds produce 'conditioned content'.

E.g.: My free will often dictates that I will not do a certain chore (e.g. clean the house). In reality, this is a complex pattern of 'doing what my daddy was doing', not having done it before. It's the opposite of free will. It's my hyper-conditioned mind not being able to even consider it. (Although, I guess, as Direct Experience goes, it may be a very pleasant experience -- to be examined :)

Describe choice & give examples from experience.

Choice too is dictated by our misty, murky, opaque, unknown to us, conditioned minds and the impulses generated. To then, again, often in hindsight, be governed by a rationalising thought.

E.g.: I chose to answer these questions on the plane (as opposed to doing work-stuff; or my side-business stuff). It's not that this was the result of a very structured and rational analysis with extensive weighing of all pros and cons. It was semi-automatic based on conditioned 'instincts', 'cues' of what makes sense (finish line in sight; lingering thought related to when you asked me 'are we still doing this', just cleared up something for my side-business which gave me small sense of achievement there... I mean, I have no clue.

Describe control & give examples from experience.

Control is equally tainted by all the conditioning and the external cues and our impulses; feeding into a thought that we equate to control itself.

E.g.: I control my physical fitness. Exercising 'all the time', moving all the time. Yet, I realise (and luckily for me) this is the result of my conditioned mind that works on auto-pilot and feeds into this thought of control. So, it's not 'I control my physical fitness'; it's 'Controlling of my physical fitness' happens. It flows.

What makes things happen? How does it work?

Randomness, and the reactions this causes (based on the inaccurate, incomprehensive info generated by our 'hijacked and conditioned' minds, acting on impluse). Noone at the wheel. Just one thing after the next.

What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

Not much. Paradoxically, the more we realise this, the more we become responsible via the questioning of what drives our actions.

E.g.: I think I'm responsible for my being a very warm and loving and caring father. But it's auto-pilot (combo of what I experienced as a son, the conditioning of my mind, and all the time I spend with my daughters, leading me to do it more, etc. Auto-pilot).

6) Anything to add?

Not really. De-conditioning in play.

Thank you so much for the step-by-step tailor-made hand-holding, Rali!! Amazing. Feels like floating in the Light.

All my love and maybe we meet one day,
David

[poppyseed]

Hi David
Welcome home!

Thank you for your beautiful answers! It has been such a pleasure to walk beside you through the gateless gate! Your openness and willingness to look were simply awesome and made guiding you a joy.

You will receive an email notifying you of a PM from the forum, inviting you to join LU's Facebook groups. It also has other information that might be of interest to you. I will inbox you my contact details if you want to stay in touch. If you have any questions, just ask, or you can drop a line on your thread here and I will respond.

Your username will change from green to blue which indicates that you have had the realisation of no separate self. This thread will be moved to the ‘Archive’ section of the forum, but you will be able to access it.

Please don’t forget that this is just the beginning of exploring. It’s the beginning of cleaning up of all sorts of old beliefs. Emotions and feelings can show up to be seen and felt, so don’t stop looking! Please feel free to contact me, so we can have a look together, if you like.

I also think that you would make a wonderful guide, if you’re willing to explore it, when you feel ready. It can be very rewarding and it help you deepen your understanding.

Also, if you want further exploring, I'd suggest these teleconferences:
There are 3 meetings & a set of 5 videos you're invited to attend:
Thursday Meetings.
Hi Guys,
we are Luchana & Lubo, guides at LU.
Here is an invitation for you:
Join us each Thursday, 6 pm CET, UTC+1
and let's explore together what is already here.
Let's enjoy together this beauty called Life
MEETINGS ARE ON ZOOM and LIVE on youtube.
To participate in the meetings, send a request to luchanauzunova@gmail.com
You will receive an e-mail confirming your participation and a link to join.
Looking forward to seeing YOU!
Luchana & Lubo
__________________________________________________
Meet up with vince (For LU seekers & guides)
Monday August 14
Sydney (est) Australia. 6 am right now
Every 2 weeks after that.
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86991485768?p ... 12Um5DQT09
Meeting ID: 869 9148 5768
Passcode: 083035
Let him know if you want email reminders.
vinceschubert@gmail.com
__________________________________________________
Ilona's Meetings
Next group meeting on Zoom is on the 4th of September. (There was one October 9. Not sure when next one is. )
To register send Ilona an email to
admin@ilonaciunaite.com
Looking forward 🙂
__________________________________________________
(videos)
Hi everyone.
Starting on 15th of October for 5 weeks I will post a new video of guiding sessions we had with Jim.
Here is a link to the first one.
https://youtu.be/gb6FwZ6PlI4
Liberation Unleashed Direct Pointing - The Gateless Gate
Ilona
Write to them for the next meeting.Ilona's is April 9th.
For Fetters:
Todd has teleconference group that meets - I think every 2 weeks.
There is also www.findingawakening.com but Christine has a waiting list.
And Kevin Shinilac has https://www.simplytheseen.com/ but I don't think he is guiding any more, although there are instructions on his site.

Love
Rali

[Daaf]

Hi Rali,

Wonderful - thank you so much for everything!

And thanks for the extra content. Indeed, clearing up old beliefs is on!

As for guiding, hmmm, would definitely be a good way to both deepen my integration of it all and pay back to community. That said, time time time... 4 daughters, 1 job + a side-job, exercise, meditation, etc. Will give it some thought though.

Thanks again!

Love,
David