Guidance

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warissem
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Re: Guidance

Postby warissem » Mon May 23, 2022 2:14 pm

Hi Nik

You are doing a good investigation. I recommend to you to investigate the body. This exercise can be done at will. It helps to lighten (give light) to the body appearance.

Sit with eyes closed for about 15 minutes.
Paying attention only to the pure sensations, without relying on thoughts or mental images:

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?

Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?

Is there an inside or an outside?
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?
If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?

What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?

Look very carefully, especially with the last question. Take your time, don’t rush. You can look several times during the day while doing other things (like washing hands, showering, having a short break from work, walking, etc) before replying.

Best wishes

Warissem

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NikkiAV
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Re: Guidance

Postby NikkiAV » Tue May 24, 2022 4:18 pm

Dear Wariseem,

Really interesting exercise thank you, it really felt releasing, yet another layer gone.

Can it be known how tall the body is?
Does the body have a weight or volume?
In the actual experience does the body have a shape or a form?
When i just focus on sensations the body does not have shape, the body's height cant be experienced, the volume and weight only become when thought gets involved - i imagine the body and then volume is experienced. but when focusing only on sensation without thought, all of the above cannot be sensed.
Is there a boundary between the body and the clothing?
Is there a boundary between the body and the chair?
when l close my eyes and feel through sensation looking for a boundary, I experience the sensation as the 'boundary'. between chair and body, between clothing and bounadry. but 'boundary' itself is a thought, a concept so if i focus just on sensation no boundary exists.
Is there an inside or an outside?
not that i can directly experience. only if i think about it can i 'classify' as such
If there is an inside - the inside of what exactly?

If there is an outside - the outside of what exactly?
i guess if i imagine an inside it would be the inside of the body, inside my head, under the skin and outside as what i hear, or feel touching the skin - but thats just conceptualising , i really cannot directly experience it as 'inside' or 'outside'
What does the word/label ‘body’ ACTUALLY refer to?
just a series of sensations, touch, hearing, sight, smell etc - that is the only direct experience i have of the body. everything else is a translation into idea.
What is the ACTUAL experience of the body?
same as above

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warissem
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Re: Guidance

Postby warissem » Tue May 24, 2022 5:22 pm

Hi Nik

Great observations. These are questions for you :


Is seeking still going on and if so, what are you looking for?

Can you say with a big fat yes, that it is clear, a separate self is an illusion?

Feel free to expose any doubt here.

Best wishes

Warissem

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NikkiAV
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Re: Guidance

Postby NikkiAV » Wed May 25, 2022 2:23 am

Hi Warissem,
Is seeking still going on and if so, what are you looking for?
Right now, no seeking is going on. My one question of what is guiding this body, this 'Nik' character that I started with has so clearly answered through this process. The journey now is to really let this integrate and settle in.
Can you say with a big fat yes, that it is clear, a separate self is an illusion?
YES. separate self is most definitely an illusion, one that cannot be directly experienced. The illusion is very clever and emerges in many forms, but when it comes down to it through all the habits, patterns, conditioning, ideas of the self they are all at their heart thoughts that come from nowhere. they cannot be grounded in any direct experience. there is no 'I', its just a habit.

I go into a Vipassana in 12 hours and its come at the perfect time to integrate this knowledge. If I do not respond to your next msg in time, I would like to very much share my gratitude Warissem for being a guide through this process and asking the questions I needed to be asked. If after the Vipassana, something still is not clear, i hope i can check in with you again?

In gratitide,
Nik

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warissem
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Re: Guidance

Postby warissem » Wed May 25, 2022 12:46 pm

Good evening Nik
I go into a Vipassana in 12 hours and its come at the perfect time to integrate this knowledge. If I do not respond to your next msg in time, I would like to very much share my gratitude Warissem for being a guide through this process and asking the questions I needed to be asked. If after the Vipassana, something still is not clear, i hope i can check in with you again?
I hope many insights for you during vipassana. I don't know about the duration of the vipassana. I want you to come back here to relate about what happened or not happened, to ask questions eventually and to answer to the final questions of this dialog.

Best wishes

Warissem

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NikkiAV
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Re: Guidance

Postby NikkiAV » Wed Jun 08, 2022 11:07 am

Dear warissem,


I am back after the vipassana. While I know through these exercises that the separate self is an illusion, through this intense 10 days I was able to see how much power it still has to shape the world experienced, the emotions, the tendencies to impatience, the experience of pain..

Warmly
Nik

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warissem
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Re: Guidance

Postby warissem » Thu Jun 09, 2022 5:38 pm

Hi Nik

I am glad to hear from you and to know that vipassana was fruitful. Here are the final questions. Elaborate on each of them.

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different now?

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

5) a) Describe decision,
intention,
free will,
choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?

Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this works.

6) Anything to add?

Best wishes

Warissem

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NikkiAV
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Re: Guidance

Postby NikkiAV » Sat Jun 11, 2022 3:55 am

Dear warissem,

Apologies that this is slightly late, needed time to. Really sit down and do it.


1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form?
Was there ever?
No. There is no 'self',, 'me' or I at all anywhere or in any shape or form. It is an illusion.

2) Give in your own words what the illusion of separate self is and how it shows up in experience. Also, through your inquiry, what is different NOW?
The illusion of the separate self imagines that there is a driver if this body, one that thinks, feels, experiences, that controls these things, that 'drives'. The illusion shows up in layers of thought also, that there a thinker behind the thought which is in fact just another thought. The illusion comes up also in concepts like form, the experience of inside, outside, boundaries when it comes to the body itself, where direct  experience is then channelled into ideas of the self or the physical form which is also just imaginary. The only thing that is real is what is directly experienced through the senses, there is no past or future, just what is happening to this body right now.

Through this inquiry this illusion is very clearly perceived.  When I remember, it is so clear that there is no driver, there is a real sense of quiet inside. It is also easy to see it in others.

3) How does it feel to see this?
What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few DAYS.
There is a peace and quiet inside. It is much easier to experience trains of thought or intense feelings as it is clear that they are just constructions.. There is a sense of distance now from the world somehow also, I feel a bit like watching and acting in a film even if it can feel so real sometimes.

 

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you LOOK?
Because I have been deeply calling/invoking for no-self for almost 6 months and recently had a life 'meltdown' of sorts where I think some part that identified with the self left.

Ohhh... In terms of the inquiry on this thread you mean?
The big shift was realising that the thinker is just another thought arising from no where. That really enables the letting go.

5) a) Describe decision,
                      intention,
                      free will,
                      choice and control.
What makes things happen? How does it work?

Give examples from your own recent experiences to how things happen and how things work.
Hmm now for me, decision just happens, sometimes with thought, Sometimes without, either way it happens out of nowhere. Intention also exists, the thought to do something or get somewhere, again it appears out of nowhere. Free will, choice and control - what do all that even mean if there is no self? There has always been freedom and choice happens yet there is also a pattern to these things, and an entire universe that is working intelligently, in many ways all the above are illusions and things flow if one surrenders and does not resist.. The signs are all there for what needs to be done or not done.

For example, during the vipassana I very much wanted to run away. It came to a breaking point and the decision was made to go to the teacher and quit (even as there was a thought to let this flow and see what happens after approaching the teacher). On approaching the teacher they suggested a relaxation technique and rest, which I listened to. This would previously not have happened - as determinism traits would have wanted to follow the decision through and leave. Such instances have happened a few times now, of letting things flow and then decisions dont have to be 'made', they just flow.

How it happens I do not know. It is clear now that 'nik' doesn't exist as a separate entity, only an identification with a construction of thoughts, emotions, personality and so on.

b) What are you responsible for? Give examples from your own recent experiences to how this WORKS.
What am I responsible for? Hmm.. Nothing really. Responsibility feels just as much an illusion as choice. There is just flow and listening at the heart of it. There is 'work' and 'responsibilities' in my life but I am starting to shed what is coming from the egoic self and I am listening for rightness now and moving towards that form rather than in terms of obligations and commitments. Work happens, planning happens but through the listening to flow rather than resisting.

6) Anything to ADD?
Thanks again!! I have a question for the schizophrenic nature of this work (at least as I'm experiencing it) sometimes in the egoic self and other times free of it, that is a natural step? Sometimes there is fear that all this is understood on a mental level but not yet embodied.

Thank you,
Nik

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warissem
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Re: Guidance

Postby warissem » Sat Jun 11, 2022 8:37 am

Hi Nik
There is a sense of distance now from the world somehow also, I feel a bit like watching and acting in a film even if it can feel so real sometimes.
Is there a distance between the “world” and the knowing of it ?
Is there a watcher, an actor ?

Thanks again!!
You are welcome

I have a question for the schizophrenic nature of this work (at least as I'm experiencing it) sometimes in the egoic self and other times free of it, that is a natural step?
Yes, it is normal. It is like a flip flop.

Sometimes there is fear that all this is understood on a mental level but not yet embodied.
When the illusion of a separate self is seen, it cannot be unseen. It is like finding the angel in the tree : you see it once, you are done.

Feel free to expose any lasting doubt to be discussed here.

Kind regards

Warissem

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NikkiAV
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Re: Guidance

Postby NikkiAV » Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:04 pm

Hi Warissem,
Is there a distance between the “world” and the knowing of it ?
Is there a watcher, an actor ?
No distance, no watcher, no actor, no self. all of it just happens.

For now there seem to be no doubts beyond what I checked in last time. Thanks again.

In gratitude,
Nik

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warissem
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Re: Guidance

Postby warissem » Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:24 pm

Hi Nik

I submit your answers to other guides. They would have questions for you.

Best wishes

Warissem

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warissem
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Re: Guidance

Postby warissem » Wed Jun 15, 2022 8:38 pm

Hi Nik

You are invited to join this meeting :

Third weekend of every month
Saturday 18th of June 6 pm-8 pm British time,
Sunday, 19th of June 10 am-12 am British time
You can join both days or one depending your time zone.
The meetings will be led by Liberation Unleashed guides.
No agenda, no promises or expectations, just being and sharing together.
Here is a link to join
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/3718929853...
Meeting ID: 371 892 9853
Passcode: HmbSF4

I invite you to watch these videos :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUDzrCLlrj4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJQcD588g2w

Kind regards

Warissem


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