Becoming No One

[NoPerson]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
My understanding is that the self is a construct of thoughts and beliefs, where a belief is a thought that we regard as true. Thoughts never tell us about the real nature of the world, as they are random reflections that appear without our control, just as other sensations. If we look at what is here in each moment, we can realize there is no self.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for a guide who can help me to see who or what I really am. If the self is not real, I want to know what is real. Also, I am looking for relief and hopefully finding the end of suffering. I have had social anxiety ever since my adolescence years. Additionally, the world seems to be falling apart, there are wars, environmental destruction, right wing shift everywhere, etc. I learned to live with these things, but it's not pleasant.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect that direct pointing at our true nature by someone who experiences it is one of the most potent ways to awakening. Also, I hope that it keeps me on the right track. There are probably a lot of mistakes that one can make when they do not have the proper guidance.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have been doing meditation for many years, but never very frequently or consistently. Just practicing mindfulness without following any particular tradition. I was never so interested in the spiritual side of it rather than the immediate benefits like stress relief, finding emotional balance, and being more present.

I went on a 3-day Yoga retreat recently. It was amazing in so many ways. However, the spiritual part still didn't resonate much with me.

Then a Buddhist friend who has experienced an awakening recommended the book "Awake, it's your turn" and I gave it a try. I was skeptical and excited about what I read at the same time. The end of suffering, really? Can that be real? Or is this a big self-help scam or conspiracy theory? I researched a lot, and while I believe to be a critical thinker, it all made sense somehow. I think it is real.

Since then, I committed myself to the path to awaking, and non-dual awareness, even though I don't really know what this commitment means in practice. I mostly dropped my other hobbies just because they did not interest me so much anymore and used my pretty limited free time to read more about it and to try different meditations and practices. E.g. I started the guided meditations on the "Waking up" app by Loch Kelly and did the first few "The headless way" exercises. But this is all very recent, and I am very new to all of this, poking here and there. I also started reading a book by John Wheeler. I would say, other than having that it is real, I haven't even had a glimpse at non-dual awareness, so far.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

[NoPerson]

Thank you so much for accepting my request to join the gate. I am really excited about this.

When I reread my application, I felt I wanted to add that I do not really expect to achieve the absence of any suffering ever. According to what I have learned (intellectually) about it, I rather expect that thoughts and worries will still arise, but I won't hold on to them and get lost in them anymore. Also, feelings like fear, anxiety, sadness, disappointment, etc. will still arise and be felt, however I expect to realize/experience that my "natural state" is not affected by them, that it is untouchable.

Furthermore, I am looking for becoming more authentic, creative, spontaneous, alive, and loving.

Here is a quote from the book "Awake, it's your turn":

Without Kensho you'll think you're living out of the innermost promptings of your tender and loving heart, but you'll be living out of the outermost promptings of your deluded ego.

Reading this made me sad. I don't want to be living from the outermost promptings of my deluded ego.

[Anastacia42]

Good morning,

I often say that the only way to fail is to quit.

You're right about thoughts. They're made up, just like "self." So, let's see what we can do

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing that is helpful is to come to this forum
& post every day. Sometimes the site goes down. It will be back. Just come back later.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[NoPerson]

Hello Stacy,

Yes, thank you for offering to be my guide. I would very much like that.

What would you like for me to call you?

Ideally, I would prefer to be called by my real name. But I am hesitant to expose it in a public forum due to the fear of humiliation. However, the problem is that I do not identify with any other label, really. So maybe just call me NoPerson (my username).

What time zone are you in, please?

My time zone is CEST (UTC+2)

Before I answer the other questions, I would like to mention that I had a glimpse into what is real 2 days ago, on Saturday afternoon.

I had started doing self-inquiry a couple of days ago and did it whenever I could. I also started reading "Gateless Gatecrashers". It was a warm and sunny afternoon, I was sitting in the garden, kids playing outside. While pausing reading I did inquiry again and it struck me. The "I" vanished. It was shocking, terrifying, overwhelming. In an instant, the weight of 40+ years of my life was gone, completely. I can't describe the sense of relief I felt. I cried like a baby.

I wasn't sure if I could handle this or function as a parent, partner, person..., so I went back to my imprisoning, comfortable self. The rest of the weekend was packed with family activities, and there was no room for me to process what had happened.

I want to continue with this so badly, but I am not sure how to balance this with my responsibilities, as mentioned above, and additionally regarding my job. I don't have a vacation right now or soon coming up. Can I have this realization while life just continues as it was?

How will life change?

I would like to say, what happens, happens. But of course I have expectations, however, expectations are just thoughts, so why does it matter? Anyway, the thoughts are that I expect my life to become better. Also, there is uncertainty and now even fear.

How will you change?

I am a bit confused about what "I" refers to. I'll regard it as the "I" that I thought I was before I was aware of the possibility, that it does not exist. My expectations are that I will be more authentic, spontaneous, creative, loving, happy. Other than that, I don't think that I will change much.

What will be different?

I expect to see things as they are from moment to moment. I expect to feel emotions as they are from moment to moment. I expect this to be challenging, to be able to express any emotion as it comes, e.g. when I am in public. I expect to feel free.

What is missing?

Authenticity. Realness. Truth. Peace.

I have some questions:

Should I stop reading "Gateless Gatecrashers"?
Is it possible to continue with this, alongside all my other responsibilities?

[Anastacia42]

Congratulations on your breakthrough

Can I have this realization while life just continues as it was?

There will be differences and often there will be peace as you say, but remember this is already how it was and still is. Nothing changed except you saw it.

We often compare it to seeing that there is no Santa Claus. The man can put the red suit back on but you're not fooled any more.

Yes please continue reading Gateless Gatecrashers.

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Loving,

[NoPerson]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I am absolutely clear about this. No clarification needed.

[Anastacia42]

Excellent. Practice that here:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[NoPerson]

This is from taking a run in the morning, how I remember it. Not 100% accurate, as I couldn't write it down right away and this is just a short excerpt.

feeling my feet hit the ground, simply = sensation
feeling breathing, simply = sensation
thinking what else to be aware of, simply = thought
hearing cars, simply = sound
hearing birds, simply = sound
feeling a stream of sensation from legs, feet, arms, hands, other body parts..., simply = feeling
thinking about how to turn this into a list, simply = thought
thinking about if I am doing this right, simply = thought
thinking more about running, and being present, simply = thought
thinking that I got lost in thought, simply = thought
feeling rocking sensations in my whole body, simply = sensation

This is from writing this list/post:

thinking about writing a list, simply = thought
seeing my desk, computer, hands etc., simply = image/color
thinking about am I doing this right, simply = thought
feeling fingers touching keys, arms touching desk, simply = feeling
thinking what else to point attention to, simply = thought
hearing cars outside, computer fan, simply = hearing
tasting a trace of tee, simply = taste
feeling sensations in mouth, simply = sensation
hearing an airplane, simply = sound
thinking that I also heard I received a message on my mobile, simply = thought
thinking if I should check it now, simply = thought
thinking I missed smell so far, simply = thought
smelling nothing, simply = smell
hearing typing, simply = sound

[Anastacia42]

Good. You've got it. The point of this is to show the difference between all our made up thoughts and the direct experience of whatever is happening.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[NoPerson]

I won't include the notes, as they are not relevant, I assume.

Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Second one is truer.

What is here without labels?

Without the labels, there is only the experiences themselves.

Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Labels can't describe experiences. Experiences are very rich. Labels can never capture the whole experience. Labels do not affect the experiences, as they are afterthoughts.

Did you notice any differences in the body?

I assume this means differences between the two ways of labelling. I feel this question suggests that I should have noticed, but I didn't.

I kept the responses very brief and hopefully on the point. Let me know if you would like more explanations.

[Anastacia42]

The first 2 answers are exactly right.

The third. I understand what you're saying but labels do describe experience. That's what they do. But they do not affect experience. There's a pointer for this.

On the last one, pay close attention to your gut feeling. Is it tight or relaxed? There's a follow-up pointer for this one, too.

Here is the first pointer:


Label-Reality Correlation

There is a belief that labels have a one-to-one correspondence with something called "reality." But there isn’t. Just like it is a generally accepted belief that labels like "good" and "bad" are inherent characteristics of "things." But actually, they are not.

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?



Loving,

[NoPerson]

When you look at the word label ‘GREEN’, what is the actual experience?

The experience is seeing colors and shapes.

Is the red color "experienced" or is color green "experienced" as the label suggests?

The red color is experienced.

Do the labels have a one-to-one correspondence with "reality?"

No.

Or do the labels suggest something else other than what is here now (red color)?

Yes. In this example it suggest the color green.

Is green-ness an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color; or is green just a word label on the experience of the red color?

Green-ness is not an inherent attribute of the "experience" of the red color. It's just a word label.

If the label ‘GREEN’ is replaced with the label ‘GOOD’ or ‘BAD’, is the redness affected in any way as the labels suggests?

No, it's not affected in any way.

Does redness become "good" or "bad," or do the labels have no effect whatsoever on ‘reality’?

Labels have no effect whatsoever on reality.

[Anastacia42]

That may be the most perfect & succinct set of answers to this ever seen. Excellent.

Now this, about truth/lies aka yes/no.

Please watch this and then do the pointer:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=n6RnrkOD7 ... uBphAoK764


Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[NoPerson]

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

A couple of days ago, my daughter couldn't go to school for a reason I do not need to get into. When my son asked why she wasn't going, I said she was sick, which wasn't entirely true.

What is found?

When I think of it, I can't sense any change in the body. However, I remember something like a tight feeling in the chest.

I tried the "1 + 1 = 14", eating worms and politicians lies. I am struggling to notice any of the body sensations you described or any kind of change in the experience.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Yes, absolutely.

[Anastacia42]

It is important to recognize when we're lying.

it's equally important to notice the expansion, light. Sensations of truth.

It sounds like maybe you're out of touch with your body. Could that be?


We can move on, but stay alert for such Sensations. Report anything you notice.

Try this


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Loving