Time for the truth

[Susark]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that what I take as "me or I" is a concept built out of things I have have been told, experienced and and taken as being true. It is a created idea influenced by my upbringing and culture. I understand this conceptually but need to know it in a more real way.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking for help in the inquiry process as I seem to find this hard to do on my own. I want to break through a conceptual understanding of no self and really know what is true. I have always felt there was hidden truth to know since my early teens but recently I have come across teachings on You Tube and they have led me here.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I would like help with the inquiry process. I seem to just go blank when I try and do it on my own. I feel that having someone to talk it through with and keep me focused would be helpful. I find it hard to concentrate on this when life has other requirements pulling at my attention and I don't know anyone else interested in these ideas to discuss it with.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I have always felt that there was something more that I am missing and I have read things like Eckhart Tolle and and others over the years. I do TM meditation usually once or twice a day. I have never taken any drugs to try and experience altered reality.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[warissem]

Hi Susark

We apologize for the late response to your post.

You said :

I understand that what I take as "me or I" is a concept built out of things I have have been told, experienced and and taken as being true. It is a created idea influenced by my upbringing and culture. I understand this conceptually but need to know it in a more real way.

Yes, it is a great beginning here. Do you agree with me that what is said above is a train of thoughts?
Now, what is noticing these thoughts ?
Can you describe this "I" which is understanding?

Please check in the forum once a day to post your answers or to find out my posts.
Learn how to use the quote function.
Be 100% honest in your answers which would be given through deep conviction.
Be dedicated 24/7 to the process going on.

If you agree, I will help you go through the illusion of a separate self.

Waiting for your insights

Nour

[Susark]

Thank you Nour. I will look into how to do the quite function and then do a reply. Thank you.

[warissem]

Hi Susark

You are much welcome

[Susark]

Do you agree with me that what is said above is a train of thoughts?
Now, what is noticing these thoughts ?
Can you describe this "I" which is understanding?

Yes I agree what I wrote is a train of thoughts. Re describing the "I" that is understanding. It's like this background awareness or consciousness but I can't find it. It feels quite different to my personality or sense of everyday self but is hovering in the background. It's a sense of being that is there but as I said I can't find it.

[warissem]

Hi Susark

We begin to familiarize with LOOKING AT direct experience.

Direct experience is : seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching (or sensations). Thoughts and concepts are used only to communicate.

When I ask a question, LOOK AT what is pointing to, then give an answer after having seen the truth. Here is an example :

Question : what is the color of the sky, right now?

There are two ways of giving an answer.

Through memory : you give the color when the sky is seen few minutes ago

OR

Through direct experience : you go outside and LOOK AT the sky then describe what color is seen.

You agree with me that what is real is given through direct experience. All other staff is thought story.

Is this kind of LOOKING is clear for you, we will go ahead.

Best for you

[Susark]

Yes definitely into seeing what is actually there as I am an artist.

[warissem]

Hi Susark

Great. Now, I invite you to look around for 2 minutes and describe what is going on as seeing, hearing, etc, ...
Come back with what is noticed.

Best for you

[Susark]

When I really concentrate on just seeing, hearing etc the mind slows down. It's still trying to describe what I am looking at or hearing etc but it's much less. It's interesting because when I am totally engrossed in painting I have no memory of thoughts and the painting goes better. The best paintings I have done, I have no idea how I did them. They just seem to happen but when I am trying to do a good painting it never works. The ego and trying gets in the way. I can see a strong connection between this and how I perceive the world.
I meant to say after you first offered to help me ....Thank you!

[warissem]

Good morning

When I really concentrate on just seeing, hearing etc the mind slows down. It's still trying to describe what I am looking at or hearing etc but it's much less.

Describing and labeling is a normal function of thoughts.

It's interesting because when I am totally engrossed in painting I have no memory of thoughts and the painting goes better. The best paintings I have done, I have no idea how I did them. They just seem to happen but when I am trying to do a good painting it never works. The ego and trying gets in the way. I can see a strong connection between this and how I perceive the world.

Yes, just be the flow of life without any effort.

I meant to say after you first offered to help me ....Thank you!

You are much welcome.

Now, we are going to investigate the thoughts through this exercice. Use the quote function to select a question, then give the answer after having been 100 % sure of the answer is seen for true. Give separate answers to each question.
This is the link for the Quote function : https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ

Important : LOOK AT what is going on, before giving answers. In other words, don't give answers through what was read, heard nor through logic. The answers must come after investigation, your investigation. This façon de faire is applicable all along our dialog.

Sit quietly for about 30 minutes and notice the arising thoughts. Just let them appear as they appear. Try your best to COMPLETELY ignore what they are saying and just notice how they appear without you doing anything at all.

Where are they coming from and going to?
Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?
Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?
Can you predict your next thought?
Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?
Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?
Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

It seems that thought has some logical ordered appearance, but look carefully and just notice if there is an organised sequence? Or is that just another thought that says ‘these thoughts are in sequence’ or “they take content from previous thought”, or that ‘one thought follows another thought’?

Waiting for your insights

[Susark]

Where are they coming from and going to?

I have no idea.

Did you do anything to make a particular thought or thoughts appear?

No.

Could you have done anything to make a different thought appear at that exact moment instead?

No.

Can you predict your next thought?

No

Can you select from a range of thoughts to have only pleasant thoughts?

I can go to a memory of something pleasant but I have no control as to what thought arrives. I could also get an unpleasant thought connected to the nice memory arrive too.

Can you choose not to have painful, negative or fearful thoughts?

No

Can you pick and choose any kind of thought?
No

Is it possible to prevent a thought from appearing?

No.

[warissem]

Hi

Good o8bservations,
Can you go to a memory or a memory is already here when it is notices?
Is there a thinker?

Best wishes

[Susark]

Can you go to a memory or a memory is already here when it is notices?

I have found this one hard to answer. When I think about a specific event in the past it seems that it is a bit like a computer selecting a random file about that event or memory and presenting it. Of course there would be a lot of "files" connected to the event and I was presented with one. I guess I didn't really choose it but was presented with one file from the event so in answer to your question the memory was already there when noticed.

Is there a thinker?

Well I appear to be able to ask questions and thoughts appear but the thoughts just arrive. Thoughts just arrive all the time without any questions too. I get the feeling that there is no thinker and that it is just automatic.

Sorry I took a while to reply to you. I had an Open Studio event all weekend so lots of talking and activity.

[warissem]

Hi Susark

How do you feel to see that there is no thinker, no you thinking?

Now, it is seen that there is no you which is thinking thoughts, how about the noticer of thoughts? Is there a noticer of thoughts?

Waiting for your insights

[Susark]

How do you feel to see that there is no thinker, no you thinking?

It still feels a bit strange and I have to keep reminding myself that thoughts just come and that there is no me doing it.

Now, it is seen that there is no you which is thinking thoughts, how about the noticer of thoughts? Is there a noticer of thoughts?

Yes there is awareness or consciousness of thoughts. It's there in the background.