Liberation Unleashed

[NyxLux]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that that the self I had always believed in, was an illusion based on thoughts/beliefs that were not based in reality. Exploring this void inside myself, and seeing how I am selfing by reacting to thoughts, has made me realize that I am not what I have taken myself to be.

What are you looking for at LU?
I am looking to obtain some help in my journey to fully realize the truth about reality. My recognition that I do not know anything, especially after months of relying on some research, has made aware that working with someone may help point me in the right direction. This life experience led me to a place where I heard about the concept of awakening five months ago. Something inside me knew the truth, and I have been on this track ever since. Innately, I believe I have been on the edge of surrendering and have been unable to embrace it. My whole being knows that awakening is my path and I cannot ignore it.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
My hope is that an outside perspective may help. I am trying not to have expectations about outcomes with any part of this journey or what awakening might really mean for me. I understand that everyone has a different path and experience. I have not doubt that my path will be different than anything I have heard or read...and that is if awakening happens for me.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I was not raised with any religion or spiritual awareness. The only real practices I have engaged in has been some meditation, being present, watching and exploring thoughts, sitting in the empty void, and self inquiry. When I began seeking a few months ago, I was hungry to understand what awakening was all about and how to go about it. I found a couple of great teachers on YouTube and have been practicing what they have suggested. At a certain point, I began to feel like the seeking for information was becoming the obsession and I felt the need to just practice and experience for myself. So I never investigated religious practices in Buddhism or the Zehn tradition. I have a great respect for Angelo Dilullo and he had highlighted the 10 Fetters, which led me to The Awakening Curriculum. During the Fetter 1 course, the teacher suggested Liberation Unleashed as a possible way to get assistance.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[warissem]

Hi

I am here to help you see through the belief of a separate self.
Before we begin, here are some recommandations and guidelines :

Read the disclaimer text and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

Be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry. Give your answers through direct experience :seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, touching or sensation. Thoughts and concepts are used only fot communication here.

Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on. You can read Gateless Gate Crashers book given on this forum.

Learn how to use the quote function here :

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

We can begin when you are ready.

Nour

[NyxLux]

Hi Nour!

Thank you so much for deciding to help me! I am glad. I have read the disclaimer. Recently, I started watching The Awakening Curriculum Fetter 1-3. Based on your message, I am assuming I should stop? As of now, I am stopping. I am ready to begin.

Thanks again!

[warissem]

Good morning

Glad to know that you are ready to go through the belief in a separate self.

First, I'd like to know about your expectations. Answer to each question separately.

After going through the illusion of a separate self, let me know :

How will life change?

How will you change?

What will be different?

What is missing?

Best wishes
Nour

[NyxLux]

Good morning,

After going through the illusion of a separate self, let me know :

How will life change?
I do not think that my life will change perse. Especially life circumstances. It might change the way I precieve life.

How will you change?
All I have to go on is what I have read and heard, but knowing that there is no self might help me accept what is. Understanding truth might change my behaviors or what I preceive as suffering but I am not sure. I have tried not to have set expectations.

What will be different?
My knowing of what truth is. Maybe how I move through life. Not sure.

What is missing?
I am not sure if anything is missing or will be missing.

[warissem]

Hi

OK, it is well to not have expectations and be open to what is unfolding here.

What is arising as thoughts, feelings or whatever when you read this :

There is no you, no separate self, there never was, there never will be.

Nour

[NyxLux]

I read this a few times and repeated it to myself, then I sat with it. At first, it was like hearing information I already knew. Then there was a twinge of surprise, like the floor fell through..mixed a sense of sadness. Then I noticed some little contractions in my abdomen and stomach area. Then it went away.

[NyxLux]

Hello,

I am about half way through reading the Gateless Gatecrashers. I can say that there have been a few moments where I have gotten some deeper understanding of the non-existence of self. It's interesting how I will read something that I have heard before, but strikes me differently now. It feels a bit destabilizing, and always has an unsettling stomach component to it. There is constant ringing in my ears (to various degrees) some shaking in the body, eye shifting, and sometimes I get a pulling sensation...a feeling of wanting to go deep into something. I'm not sure if that is the best description but it's the best I can do right now. Lately, sleep has been difficult and extremely hard to control body movement. I'm not sure if this sensations are normal in the process.

There have been a few ideas that struck me in particular:

Shane's Story: "I did just as you asked... it is being! It is continually trying to be
something or someone. A relentless trying to be this or that. A teacher,
an author, a humanitarian, whatever... it is being. not to let it be... but
to be somebody."
I really connected to this somehow. I have asked myself before what am I clinging to, and this resonated.

Bruno's story: "Look, what is “university”? Is there such a thing in reality or is it just a
label to point to buildings, students, books, all things that are real? But
there is no university. Just a label.
“I” is a label for ‘the thing that owns the life that’s being lived’. So that
“I” is just a thought. A label.
“I” is not looking. Looking is happening at this moment. It is happening
by itself without the need for a self to look."The Universe is working not through, but as. It’s expressing itself in
different forms, not through different forms."

"See that presence/being is impersonal, but thoughts make it ap-
pear otherwise."

These really stood out to me. I'm not sure if I'm giving you pointless I formation or what. I think I'm feeling like I am on the verge of something and I have had this feeling a few times before with an inability to, I guess, surrender to it. It's frustrating and I get to the point of exhaustion. My husband is also on his path and his has been quite different than mine and full of energy. There are times when I feel transmission of energy between us and the ear ringing gets very loud. I have had an ear worm for 4 months. Sometimes I wish I could make sense of all this. Both my husband and I are very new to the concept of spiritual awakening or even Spirituality. At one point during this, I thought I was dying and went to the hospital. My nervous system has been rewired and I have had a few weird things happen that I cannot explain. So I'm sorry if this seems silly. I feel like a babe in the woods and I have not had anyone to even ask if this might be normal, or what. I just try to accept it and move on. I'm sorry this is verbose and/or not something you wish to comment on. I completely understand.
Thank-you again for guiding me. It is so appreciated.

[warissem]

Hi

It is a good beginning. Just don't worry about experiences, they come and go.

Ponder on this :

What is this "I" which wants to awaken. Look deeply at this "I" and let me know about is arising.

Nour

[NyxLux]

I have pondered this a few times in the past and now, the "I" feels a little flat. No reaction or thoughts about it. I could sit and intellectualize it, but I feel like that would not help. I know there is no "I" that want to awaken.

[NyxLux]

I have pondered this a few times in the past and now, the "I" feels a little flat. No reaction or thoughts about it. I could sit and intellectualize it, but I feel like that would not help. I know there is no "I" that want to awaken.

[warissem]

Good evening

I know there is no "I" that want to awaken.

Yes, knowing there is no I to awaken is well. What is "I" referring to in what you said.
"I know"
"there is no "I" to awaken"

Illusion resides in the thoughts.

Waiting for your insights

Nour

[NyxLux]

Hello Nour,

Reflecting on the "I" in "I know" at first feels like an inability to express the knowledge component of there is no self. But the idea of "I" is sticky. When "I" is said verbally, or in writing, there is the need to reference this body-mind and it becomes about semantics. Considering it more, there is a twinge of weirdness when referencing the "I." It has begun to feel off.
Sitting with "there is no "I" to awaken" and there leaves the question of What does awaken? The intense urge to attach the label of "I" claims ownership and yet without the label, the subject or topic still exists. The "I" is a useless middleman. The ego still attaches through thoughts and maybe the reactions through doing gives some of them automatic credibility that keeps the labels in place. How does one detach from the label but remember to do a task? It has been clear for a while that thoughts keep the "I" alive and most just come and go.
The internal dialouge:
If there is no "I" to awake then what does want to? Is it the intuition that presented this path? Is this all driven by pure consciousness? Would consciousness be able to do What this life requires without the "I"? I have heard that it does, but is that taken on faith? Certain things like driving etc. Are done in an automatic way, but what about the rest? The ego has a way of creating doubt, even though doubt is just a thought. Seeing that the "I" is not needed to awake and infact, that is what is needed to see through, the question is how?
Internally, there are mixed feelings that have nothing behind them. Then what is it that is keeping true seeing? This question is asked when sitting and nothing comes up.

[NyxLux]

Hello Nour,

I hope you are okay. I have not heard from you, do I am hoping you just needed a break. Since the last post, I have been reading the Gateless Gatecrashers further and so much has been resonating with me. For some reason, the line you wrote that said, "there is no "I" to awake" had been turning in the mind a lot. At one point tonight I was sitting and a deep realization happened when I was thinking about the idea of a watcher. The whole thing hit me different and it was an ah-ha kind of moment followed by a deep peace. There is a feeling of seeing that there is no "I" instead of an intellectual knowing. Then, I noticed that the thoughts were still happening with the same label of "I" attached. When I hear these thoughts, my first impulse is to correct it. It's kind of funny hearing these thoughts, like shaking my head at an ignorant kid. Then the doubts arise around thinking this is some kind of shift. I have tried to look for this sense of "I" and I can't. Contemplating the "I" is a bit hard right now because the internal dialog gets stuck. I'm not sure what to think, because the thoughts are the same and I'm not sure if I am really detached from personalizing. It's hard to tell. This just happened about an hour ago..so this is new. I am sure I will be able to see more tomorrow.

[warissem]

Good morning

I have read your two posts and there is a big difference between them.
I am glad to see more clarity here :

At one point tonight I was sitting and a deep realization happened when I was thinking about the idea of a watcher.
The whole thing hit me different and it was an ah-ha kind of moment followed by a deep peace. There is a feeling of
seeing that there is no "I" instead of an intellectual knowing.

There is no I, no you sitting, no you thinking, there is just seeing, sitting, thinking happening. Do you see that?

Then, I noticed that the thoughts were still happening with the same label of "I" attached. When I hear these thoughts, my first impulse is to correct it. It's kind of funny hearing these thoughts, like shaking my head at an ignorant kid.

Yes, great, it is like seeing that there is no Santa.

Then the doubts arise around thinking this is some kind of shift. I have tried to look for this sense of "I" and I can't.

As you have said previously, doubt is a thought. it is so simple to go through the illusion.

Contemplating the "I" is a bit hard right now because the internal dialog gets stuck.

How something which does not exist be contemplated?

I'm not sure what to think, because the thoughts are the same and I'm not sure if I am really detached from personalizing. It's hard to tell. This just happened about an hour ago..so this is new.
I am sure I will be able to see more tomorrow.

Yes, let this sink more and give faith to the process.
There is no you, no you to be sure or think or whatever. See that all is just happening, life unfolding.
I invite to go for a walk in nature or a park and see the flow of life in trees, in animals, in other people, ....

Let meknoww about your insights.

Best for you

PS : don't worry when I take some time to respond. I traveled to the mountains where I don't have access to internet as I wish.

Best for you