Help would be appreciated

[Pangurban]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? The self is made up, a label. The I thought claims feelings, thoughts and experiences to belong to some self. It‘s an illusion that causes suffering.
We can see through this. When we look closer, it is clear, that the sense of I is just one of these (often feeling or sensations). There is nothing.
What are you looking for at LU? I feel that intellectually I understand it. I also do not find an I when I look for it. There is a sense of self. When I look, it‘s just a sensation. But it keeps sneaking back into the experience. And I feel it very strong in my regular daily experience/life.

I would love some help with going all the way. Turning knowledge into experience. Help in letting go of that last believe that still sits deep down (or maybe are obvious to others).

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Guidance and focus, accountability on my part. Someone that brings me back to direct experience, when the „ego“ is having all sort of ideas and distractions and doubts. A sense of community and not being alone with this non-duality stuff (as currently I have no teachers and I am not sharing this much with others). It makes it more real, when I can talk (write) to someone, if that makes sense? Also, help with keeping it real, I don‘t want this to be another illusion or idea the mind makes up.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
About 7 years ago I have found through Yin Yoga a way into a daily meditation practice. It‘s sort of open vipassana-style-meditation. Sitting with what is / appears: sounds, sensations, feeling, thoughts, etc. I sat in a few silent retreats (Zen, too). I had some opening moments in my first retreat and realised, there‘s more to it than just "stress-reducation". More tastes followed. During the pandemic I found Loch Kellys glismps practice and also self-inquiry but only recently started to look more seriously deeply into the second.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Lubo]

Hi dear Pangurban,
Welcome to the forum!

I read your intro and feel touched .
My name is Lubo and I can be your guide here, if you are OK?
What name you prefer to call you?

The I thought claims feelings, thoughts and experiences to belong to some self. It‘s an illusion that causes suffering.

Notice that the resistance against "I" thought is taken for the persona, for the real someone who resist?
Notice that "I" thought and "Soup" thought are just thoughts?
and only resistance is playing as if there is a self resisting, right?
Without paying attention to the resistance and fear from "I" thought, is there a problem with this thought? or any other thought?

Is there real self or just resistance is taken for someone?
What is to see this?

Much love to you,
Lubo

[Pangurban]

Hi Lubo,

Thank you. ☺️ I‘d like very much for you to be my guide. Please call me Claudia.

Notice that the resistance against "I" thought is taken for the persona, for the real someone who resist?
Notice that "I" thought and "Soup" thought are just thoughts?
and only resistance is playing as if there is a self resisting, right?
Without paying attention to the resistance and fear from "I" thought, is there a problem with this thought? or any other thought?

Is there real self or just resistance is taken for someone?

I sat earlier today watching my thoughts coming and going. „I“ as a thought comes, like any other thought. When it‘s just seen as a thought, it‘s non-threatening, so to speak. And there‘s no resistance then. It‘s funny though, because when I do that, it‘s as if the „I“ knows I‘m watching and the thoughts avoid it until I get distracted. Sort of like a game of hide and seek. It occurs to me, that’s probably why I chose the username (Pangurban is a cat in an old poem, hunting mice). 🙃

But in more stressful situations or when strong feelings are there, a sense of „I“ pops up. And resistance to that? Sure! And yes, it maskerades as a self. The sensation in the body, sometimes in the head, throat or chest, feels like an „I“. I feel, after lurking a while in this forum and reading the book, I start to see through it more. See it as what it is and catch it faster: Sensations. But who‘s catching it? Wait, there is a sense of somebody catching it… It‘s like a hall of mirrors. Overthinking starts happening. That’s where thoughts get stuck.

Well, thanks for going this part of the journey with me, Lubo.
Warm greetings,
Claudia

[Lubo]

Hi dear Claudia,

Thank you. ☺️ I‘d like very much for you to be my guide.

Oo, thank you very much, what a pleasure to walk with you!

I sat earlier today watching my thoughts coming and going. „I“ as a thought comes, like any other thought. When it‘s just seen as a thought, it‘s non-threatening, so to speak. And there‘s no resistance then.

Yes, exactly, when it is just see, no effort is needed.
Now like a Pangurban cat (i like that:) chasing for a mouse - notice
Is there self at all, without relating to thoughts or sensations?
Just one simple look,
no effort.
You are The Cat
is there mouse/self?

So much love to you,
Lubo

[Pangurban]

Good afternoon dear Lubo,

You are The Cat
is there mouse/self?

Pangurban would have no mouse-sightings to report.
Can I find a self that exists independently from thought and sensation? No. I have looked and not yet found a separate entity.

However, the (non-existent) mouse is mocking the cat! I feel like I keep falling for the illusion. Like the cat knows, there’s no mouse in the hole (it checked thoroughly). But when it's going for it's well deserved nap it thinks it can hear something in that very hole it just checked. Sneaky!

This is where I'm at this afternoon.

With warm wishes,
Claudia

[Lubo]

Hi dear Claudia,
We are not denying that there are thoughts.
we are looking is there self :)

Look with me:

Room - is it present?

Body - is it here?

Sounds - Here?

Thoughts - here?

Body sensations- yes?

Without relating to thoughts and body sensations - LOOK - is there a self?

So much love to you,
Lubo

[Pangurban]

Dear Lobo

Oh, I didn't mean to say I'm denying them (thoughts - and yes, there is the resistance for them, sometimes). 😊 Anyway, here we go:

Room - is it present?

Yes

Body - is it here?

Yes

Sounds - Here?

Yes

Thoughts - here?

Yes

Body sensations- yes?

Yes

Without relating to thoughts and body sensations - LOOK - is there a self?

No

It's funny, when you run through the list I can say it with certainty. There is a broader sense of Self (I am), however, that does not compare to that little self. I was meaning to ask about that.

Best 🌞,
Claudia

[Lubo]

Wow it is awesome!
Claudia,
What is to find that?
That there is no such thing living life?

[Lubo]

There is a broader sense of Self (I am), however, that does not compare to that little self. I was meaning to ask about that.

Yes, you are That, you are Vast!
What is to find that?
Notice is there wich is happening without you?

Love

[Pangurban]

Good morning dear Lubo,

What is to find that?
That there is no such thing living life?

It’s not new to me yet getting clearer. I still find myself entangled in ego and entranced in some illusion of self in everyday life. This is what brought me here in the first place. What I am only slowly realizing is, that this is for me a slow process and that there doesn’t have to be this “boom”-moment? Like many “glimpses” and small realizations?

Yes, you are That, you are Vast!
What is to find that?
Notice is there wich is happening without you?

This is so very liberating. When I “access this” (sounds so dual but it’s the experience), it’s so easy to see.

Love
Claudia

[Lubo]

Hi dear Claudia,

I still find myself entangled in ego and entranced in some illusion of self in everyday life. This is what brought me here in the first place. What I am only slowly realizing is, that this is for me a slow process and that there doesn’t have to be this “boom”-moment?

Ok. Let's make boom moment, are you with me?

1. The list: room, body, sounds, sensations, thoghts - Is there self/ego without relating to thoughts and feelings?
2. You see that there is no self/ego - what you are?
3. Thoughts/ego is someone?
Where thoughts are coming from, to whom they belong to?
Is there something under thought's protection?
LOOK!

So much love to you,
Lubo
:)

[Pangurban]

Good morning dear Lubo

No „boom-moments“ here.

1. The list: room, body, sounds, sensations, thoghts - Is there self/ego without relating to thoughts and feelings?

No

2. You see that there is no self/ego - what you are?
3. Thoughts/ego is someone?

I‘m not my thoughts, not my body or sensations… in a way it feels like all of that and nothing. Things happen by themselves, I can see that.

Where thoughts are coming from, to whom they belong to?

They bubble up from nowhere, unasked. Sometimes it feels it just happens, sometimes it feels like there is a thinker. the thinker drops away when i investigate.

Is there something under thought's protection?

No, when I sit and ask: What are you protecting? Fear comes up. It’s subtle and I sit with it.

I‘ll be staying with it.

Loce
Claudia

[Lubo]

Hi dear Claudia,
I am with you.

Everything is absolutely beautiful and safe.
Let's walk around in this Garden of Eden and to find what is behind the fear and thoughts.

I‘m not my thoughts, not my body or sensations… in a way it feels like all of that and nothing.

Yes, it is important. Notice again is here any YOU here?
You body? You thought? :) ?

Things happen by themselves, I can see that.

Stay here. Notice that you should be here to know that there are things that are happening, notice them again- Beautiful Sensations from touching a body to different materials? mmmm
sounds - Oooo
, colors and shapes - wow
Everything is so different and rich and juicy,
right now,
just what is - live streaming of experience is here

Only for you.
Notice that you are the background here, so VAST, no where to go :)
To be big is safe.
You are full and complied exactly as you are, already and forever.
This is here to loves you, beautiful entertainment only for you.

Is there someone else here?

So much love to you,
Lubo

[Pangurban]

Hello Lubo

I am with you.

And I value that very much.

I was traveling today, will rest with that and report back tomorrow.

Things feel light and vast, yet the “me-mind” keeps coming back. Oscillating. There’s a sense of relief in a bubble that wants to pop but can’t.

Sending warm greetings
Claudia

[Lubo]

Nice Ok.
Tomorrow.

yet the “me-mind” keeps coming back.

No need to fight with the mind.
Notice the idea of persona to whom thoughts are coming?
Question "I Claudia" - drop it in the basket and enjoy freedom.

Love,
Lubo