Ready to understand

[sunnyone]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand intellectually that there is no self, and I have had several glimpse experiences where the self was gone and I perceived myself as everything, or one thing only was happening. In a lasting way, I have not experienced the truth of no self, and it has become a very intense search.

What are you looking for at LU?
An opportunity to be in community with others who understand this powerful pull, and to have a mentor who will help with pointers toward the truth of existence. Understand feels near, but also very far away. I have a robust meditation practice and have begun working with inquiry and for the most part understanding that I am not my thoughts, though there are still a choice few that are super compelling and I get caught. There is still a strong sense that I am in here, but when I look during inquiry there is no one I can find. Doubt still persists, nothing undeniable has broken the spell.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Not certain that I have expectations from the conversation, other than it will be with someone who has seen through and will be helping me do the same. I am so grateful this situation exists in our world.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Mostly regular and sometimes sporadic meditation for the last year, before that sporadic meditator since around 18 (am 46 now). Seeking has only been in earnest since 2021 when I was suddenly plunged into a dark night of sorts and nothing I had ever tried before was working to help me be present to endless panic attacks and groundlessness. My body was very sick. Feverishly searching, I discovered Advaita Vedanta and began looking inward instead of outward. Mostly my practice has been getting through fear, sitting with it like a mother when it arrives, trusting that even death is safe and learning to trust life. Inquiry has been more lately, asking in random moments ' what feels this?' or 'who smells this flower?'.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 9

[Anastacia42]

Good morning

First, our site was having some trouble, so if you can't get in, keep trying. It will be fixed.

You've been through a lot. And yes death is perfectly safe. I'll share a recorded pointer about that later, after we get some basics.

Doubt can be a tough one. You can see there is no self & fail to believe what you've seen already. I can't come between you & your thinking, so you can cling to the lie of self & it can be hard to help you.

But let's try.

Hi,

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

It works best to come to the forum every day.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?


Loving,

[sunnyone]

Stacy, I would be honored to be guided by you. During the time that the website was down, I did a deep dive into the Gateless Gatecrashers book and some of these exchanges on the forum and really felt I saw through my own 'I' by witnessing others. Things have felt very different since then, far less reactivity to the world. I will let you be the judge of where you feel I am though through my answers and energies.

I will follow the guidelines and understand them. To answer your questions:

How will life change?

Life will not change at all, it already is exactly what it is. Only a misperception will be removed.

How will you change?

I understand that there is no me to change, just a thought that erroneously took itself to be separate from life.

What will be different?

There is a feeling of light freedom that is new, but any idea of what could be different is a thought. Life will be exactly as it is, unknowable to the me.

What is missing?

Unsure how to answer this question honestly. The answer feels like nothing.

Thank you so much for your time and guidance, you can call me Sunny!

[Anastacia42]

Hi Sunny,

Some people do, indeed. see by reading those.

Can you say 100% that there's no separate "self? "

If so, how does it feel to see this?

Loving,

[sunnyone]

Good morning from central time zone in the u.s, Stacy.

Can you say 100% that there's no separate "self? "

There is still contraction into the ‘me’ most of my waking life, but it’s weakening as I don’t believe most thoughts. So I cannot say 100% but I know the feeling of letting it go.

If so, how does it feel to see this?

There is a feeling of well-being and trust, if trust can be a feeling. When I forget there is just a feeling of ‘normalcy’ until I catch the realization again.

Thank you so much for your time.

[Anastacia42]

Okay, then. Let's start at the beginning to be sure we don't miss anything. Below is my usual introduction. Please answer the questions in Blue.

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

It is very helpful to come to this forum to practice and post every day, but do so in a relaxed way.

Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you know yourself to be a skeptical person, prone to doubt, I may not be the best guide for you. I never had any doubt. I can connect you with one of our other guides who did & who can guide you better than I.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[sunnyone]

Okay, Stacy -

Really feeling into these questions today.

How will life change?

Life won't change, nothing 'I' could do could ever change it, nothing that happens to 'me' could ever touch life because 'me' is a thought and life is what is happening. Ah, here is a sneaky doubt: life is also my thoughts? Gosh I can feel how much this sense of 'I' is sticky.

How will you change?

That which is animating me' is life itself, and it is constantly changing. I won't change, the 'me' will simply be seen through.

What will be different?

There won't be a sense of separation, a sense of one who judges or decides. Life will simply be unfolding.

What is missing?

Nothing. It's all this here and now

Thank you so much,
Sunny

[Anastacia42]

Great. Your expectations are pretty reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed.

Loving,

[sunnyone]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been, and never will be? That the whole thing was a made up story that we believed

Thank you for this question, Stacy. A combination of real relief and also grief - there is a sense of investment in being a separate ‘I’ with a story, though it is far less sticky than it has been.

[Anastacia42]

You're welcome. Let me know if fear or grief seem to be getting in the way. Actually. let me share this video...

Here is a mediation on fear from Ilona that you can try

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=FEJQ8xkZL9c-QydK

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks



There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.



Here is an example to illustrate the difference:



If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:



• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.



• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!



Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.



For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.



Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that



We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..



Direct or Actual Experience is



Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)



Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.



Loving,

[sunnyone]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification

Feeling very clear about this, thank you Stacy!

[Anastacia42]

Good. This pointer will help you to practice:

u]Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities[/u]

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[sunnyone]

Good Evening, dear Stacy - here goes!

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Painting a portrait:

Holding the brush - feeling
Choosing paint colors - seeing
swirling brush in the water to clean it - sound
choosing to move a shadow a little to the left - thought
Using my hand to see if a brush is clean after dipping it in water - sensation
Using discernment to see if the painting is finished - thought

Making tapioca pudding:

Holding the wooden spoon while I stir - sensation
Wondering if I added enough vanilla - thought
Noting that the eggs made the pudding a beautiful light yellow color - image/color
Hearing the pudding bubbling - sound
Smelling the pudding as I am cooking - smell
Tasting to see if it is right - taste

[Anastacia42]

That's good. Now let's take it a step further.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Loving

[sunnyone]

Good evening, Stacy - thank you for these questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

I don't know about true, I feel that the second round where 'I' is omitted that there was a subtle bliss. I would associate that with truth - a hum that is obscured when I use 'I'.

2. What is here without labels?

Simply this. As it unfolds, no doer, no decider, just emergence.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

Would labels be thoughts? They don't affect experience, no - they just obscure it a bit, pulling attention, reiterating the 'I' that thinks it is the ______er.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

The first round created a subtle tension that was eased in the second round, showing me experientially that there is dissonance when 'I' is used, even if I normally don't see it - it's been an assumed habit 'my' whole life!