Behind the scenes

[Steve101]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

A while ago a hand reached into the head and pulled out an agitated cartoon character, noisy and judgmental but as it was held at arms length and truly seen…it was revealed as the fiction it is. The ‘self’ is just a story that many people tell themselves so often they actually believe it.

What are you looking for at LU?

The gate is visible….but the last few steps…….guides who have gone before can be invaluable in pointing the way. To hear the experiences of others and also, if it helps, to contribute and help others along that same path.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

Nothing but since 200 characters are required I suppose I had better flesh this out (no disrespect). Having read the book (LU) I know that i am on the right path, i just need some extra insights from others that might help me move further along that path.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

Questioning existence for over half a century. Quieting the mind was for many years was a goal..a chaotic mind viewed as detrimental. Always wondering why goals (fitness, diet, intellectual) were constantly sabotaged. Now, having no goals, dreams or aspirations is (paradoxically) a wonderful and beautiful thing.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[Steve101]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?

A while ago a hand reached into the head and pulled out an agitated cartoon character, noisy and judgmental but as it was held at arms length and truly seen…it was revealed as the fiction it is. The ‘self’ is just a story that many people tell themselves so often they actually believe it.

What are you looking for at LU?

The gate is visible….but the last few steps…….guides who have gone before can be invaluable in pointing the way. To hear the experiences of others and also, if it helps, to contribute and help others along that same path.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?

Having read the book (LU) I know that i am on the right path, i just need some extra insights from others that might help me move further along that path.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?

Questioning existence for over half a century. Quieting the mind was for many years was a goal..a chaotic mind viewed as detrimental. Always wondering why goals (fitness, diet, intellectual) were constantly sabotaged. Now, having no goals, dreams or aspirations is (paradoxically) a wonderful and beautiful thing.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 10

[CarefulDog88]

Hi, my name is Paul, I would be very happy to embark on this exploration with you, provided we both agree it is sensible. Please carefully consider the following points, which blend universal LU elements with specific guidance:

1. Throughout this process, your focus should be solely on your direct experience (DE). We will avoid delving into theories, beliefs, or alternative methods, including those from non-duality. Relying on external beliefs is not the aim. I will pose questions, and your responses should stem directly from your personal experiences.
2. The key elements driving this process are your desire to discover the truth and your willingness to delve deeply into the questions. Wholehearted engagement in the experiments and exercises I present is crucial. Your commitment to reporting experiences here with complete honesty is essential. If you are prepared for this level of engagement, the process will naturally unfold as it should.
3. To ensure focus and productivity in this process, both of us commit to responding on this thread daily. In cases of exceptional circumstances preventing a response, we agree to communicate this in advance on the thread, either the day before or on the day. If this rhythm doesn't align with your lifestyle, style, or preferences, please inform me, and alternative arrangements can be made with another guide.
Please read the following documents from LU and make sure you are on board with their content:

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2
And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Learn how to use the Quote Function here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=-fAToDNh9hQ

Please answer questions individually, as this will assist us in having a clear dialogue.

Are you ready for this?
What shall I call you?

ALSO:
1. Please make sure that you are subscribed to your thread. In the bottom left corner, next to "Post Reply" there is an icon that looks like a spanner. When you click on it there is a menu where you can select “Subscribe topic’. Click on it once. (To be sure that you are subscribed just refresh the page and if you click again should show “Unsubscribe topic”.)

2. When replying to a question it makes it a lot easier to follow the inquiry using the 'Quote Function' to highlight the questions and answers.

[Steve101]

Are you ready for this?

Hello Paul, thank you so much for taking the time to help me. I have read through the FAQ and disclaimer and watched the video on the quote function. I understand that in order to maintain momentum I should post daily and only from direct experience.

Yes, I am definitely ready for this.

What shall I call you?

Please just call me Steve.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Steve,
Excellent let's get started.

A while ago a hand reached into the head and pulled out an agitated cartoon character, noisy and judgmental but as it was held at arms length and truly seen…it was revealed as the fiction it is. The ‘self’ is just a story that many people tell themselves so often they actually believe it.

If you would be kind enough to elaborate on this answer, only if you feel comfortable with the sharing of it.


The initial step involves delving into the realm of thoughts and its content using Direct Experience DE. The aim is to cultivate a habit of recognizing thought stories for what they truly are.
To achieve this, one must introspect and infuse the investigative process into as much of their time as reasonably possible. This isn't a sporadic practice, to be recalled once or twice a day or week. It demands sustained alertness, steering clear of distractions, and immersing oneself in the seeing through thought and its content seeing it for the illusion that it is.

To progress, it's crucial to discard preconceived notions of "awakening" and approach things with a fresh perspective. This entails shedding the spiritual jargon and delving into your own experience without overlaying it with the words or experiences of others.

Additionally, you must be prepared to question everything you believe you know about this subject (and others). There is no alternative route.
Let me know if you're ready for this. It's perfectly acceptable if you're not.

First Questions:
Let's start with your expectations, in your own words with 100% honesty, answer the following questions.

What do you expect to happen when the illusion of a separate self is seen
through?

How will you change?

How will life change?

What will be different?

What is missing?

[Steve101]

Additionally, you must be prepared to question everything you believe you know about this subject (and others). There is no alternative route

Yes I am prepared and fully committed.

What do you expect to happen when the illusion of a separate self is seen
through?

I think that I expect to be much more present when I see through the illusion of a separate self. By ‘presence’’ I mean my mind is quieter and I am more grounded in reality.

How will you change?

I think that I will be a less impulsive person because I will be more in the ‘now’. My mind sometimes flashes up images or feelings and I tend to act to satisfy the urges this tendency produces, overeating is an example.

How will life change?

The suffering that the separate self has inflicted over the years will stop or at the very least lessen. Life (direct experience) will unfold naturally in my consciousness unhindered by the distractions and machinations of a separate self.

What will be different?

My mind having fully recognised the illusion of a separate self will begin to understand that the things that it previously thought would lead to happiness are just thoughts and that it’s understanding of anything are just thoughts and thoughts are fleeting things. I suppose I even expect that the recognition of a separate self will melt away.

What is missing?

Selfishness will be missing. The fear of the separate self.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Steve

A while ago a hand reached into the head and pulled out an agitated cartoon character, noisy and judgmental but as it was held at arms length and truly seen…it was revealed as the fiction it is. The ‘self’ is just a story that many people tell themselves so often they actually believe it.

If you would be kind enough to elaborate on this answer, only if you feel comfortable with the sharing of it. It is perfectly fine if you don't, if you would just say I dont want to or no will suffice - just so I know you didn't miss the question.
Thank you

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Steve,
All of your expectations sound perfectly reasonable.
Let us have a look at Direct Experience (DE).

Separate Self as a Knowing vs Direct Experience:
At LU we ask the client look, using direct experience to see what's true, LU is not focused on "thought experiments" rather on seeing through the illusion of an inherent self that is in control of thoughts and life.

There is a big difference between knowing that there is no separate self entity vs. seeing it firsthand in experience right now.

Pointers:
This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:
Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!

Do you agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking?

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" as an experience, it is very important that you are clear about this difference. And that you practice the exercises as given.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. This is not an intellectual process or understanding. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience.

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear on this or need further explanation.

Direct Experience - Labelling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

[Steve101]

A while ago a hand reached into the head and pulled out an agitated cartoon character, noisy and judgmental but as it was held at arms length and truly seen…it was revealed as the fiction it is. The ‘self’ is just a story that many people tell themselves so often they actually believe it.

If you would be kind enough to elaborate on this answer, only if you feel comfortable with the sharing of it.

After reading LU (the book) I kind of had this insight (visual) of being so frustrated by the voice in my head labeling and judging everything that I was suddenly prompted to just reach into my head and pull out this voice’s physical representation (in my vision). It was like a wriggling/fighting neon line stick figure that was resisting real life and it just wouldn’t shut the F*** up. As I did this I felt a sudden temporary peace come over me.

[Steve101]

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply colour/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

I was in bed reading when I received you forum post.

Seeing: mostly darkness, some light from the blinds
Hearing: My girlfriends breathing, I listened to her breathing for ages
Feeling : the warmth and texture of her hand in mine, the weight of my body against the matteress, velvet texture of the pillow case against my face.
Tasting: I could feel saliva in my mouth and taste mint toothpaste
Smelling: I have very little sense of smell since a nasal polyp operation some years ago

Could you please elaborate on “Thoughts Arising (but not their content).” This confused me.


The next day I continued to focus as much as I could on direct experience. Sometimes I meditate for 25 mins in the morning. Instead of letting go and allowing the mantra to come I just allowed myself to become aware of DE….

Seeing: Light and dark morphing shapes
Hearing: odd noises….house settling noises, wind outside
Feeling: the pressure of my body against the sofa, my hoodie around my shoulders
Tasting: nothing
Smelling: I felt the breath coming in and out of my nose, house smells, cooking, anti bac cleaning smells
Thoughts Arising (but not their content) - still not sure what this means.

As I was meditating I was becoming aware of each of the elements above separately but I reached a point where I became aware of ALL of these elements together at the same time. I understand that this is all about DE and not other spiritual practices but I wanted to document this in relation to DE.

Lunch

Seeing: A bowl of chilli, beans, tomato, mushrooms omg every shade and colour of each vegetable
Hearing: I forgot to become aware of this
Feeling: textures of meat and veg, temperature heat
Tasting: picking out each spice, salt, chilli heat
Smelling: tomatoes
Thoughts Arising (but not their content): ??????

As I focused (or became aware) more and more on DE the interjections of my mind in terms of labeling or going over past scenarios became glaringly more apparent.

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Steve,

Could you please elaborate on “Thoughts Arising (but not their content).” This confused me.

We will get to this with a very deep looking, but for now if you have a thought about:

Smelling: I have very little sense of smell since a nasal polyp operation some years ago

This is a thought and the content is the story told by the thought. is this clearer?

There was a good effort in looking at the Direct Experience, lets see if we can make it more direct, at the moment there is thought labeling in there and we need to get ride of that so we can see the direct experience clearly.

Seeing: Light and dark morphing shapes
Hearing: odd noises….house settling noises, wind outside
Feeling: the pressure of my body against the sofa, my hoodie around my shoulders
Tasting: nothing
Smelling: I felt the breath coming in and out of my nose, house smells, cooking, anti bac cleaning smells
Thoughts Arising (but not their content) - still not sure what this means.

For example: you wrote Hearing, the actual direct experience of hearing is sound. The wind outside is simply sound. The labeling is odd noises (thought kicked in and said what can I call these noises, I know call them odd noises), is this clearer?

Lets try again and see if we can get closer to the direct experience.
it may help to use the format given in the examples.

Seeing a cup, simply= image/colour
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

[Steve101]

This is a thought and the content is the story told by the thought. is this clearer?

Yes, this is clear.

Let’s try again and see if we can get closer to the direct experience

I think that I see what you are pointing to Paul. Ok….this was my experience of this:

I woke up:

Image. I simply saw: Black
Smell: I simply smelled: nothing
Sensation: I simply felt: warm
Taste: I simply tasted: nothing
Sound: I simply heard: birds
Thought: I don’t want to get up: simply noticed thought


in the kitchen:

Image. I simply saw: Door
Smell: I simply smelled: Coffee
Sensation: I simply felt: Liquid
Taste: I simply tasted: Coffee
Sound: I simply heard: whirr (tumble dryer)
Thought: tumble dryer: I simply noticed: thought

In the garden

Seeing the lawn, simply= green
Smelling grass, simply = grass
Feeling the cold air, simply = cold
Tasting the chewing gum, simply = mint
Hearing the lawn mower, simply = engine
The grass is long, simply = thought

[CarefulDog88]

Hi Steve,
Excellent, this is Direct Experience, we look without thought labelling to see whats actually there. This next exercise will offer an opportunity to Look and see the direct experience, you may feel heat/sweat or a contraction in the chest or lower stomach, everyone is different, It would obvious to you if you leave thought out of the exercise and see the body sensations.
Read the passage below and notice what comes up.

After reading LU (the book) I kind of had this insight (visual) of being so frustrated by the voice in my head labeling and judging everything that I was suddenly prompted to just reach into my head and pull out this voice’s physical representation (in my vision). It was like a wriggling/fighting neon line stick figure that was resisting real life and it just wouldn’t shut the F*** up. As I did this I felt a sudden temporary peace come over me.

An experience, a lot of people come to LU with their own experiences and they are all different, no two experiences are the same. It can happen that experiences build expectations, two common factors that prevent people from awakening are FEAR and EXPECTATION.
It is very important that we let go of any of these expectations:
Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about getting rid of, or changing physical pain.

What comes up as you read this in your Direct Experience?

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? It was all a made up story.

[Steve101]

Thank you Paul.

Read the passage below and notice what comes up.

After reading LU (the book) I kind of had this insight (visual) of being so frustrated by the voice in my head labeling and judging everything that I was suddenly prompted to just reach into my head and pull out this voice’s physical representation (in my vision). It was like a wriggling/fighting neon line stick figure that was resisting real life and it just wouldn’t shut the F*** up. As I did this I felt a sudden temporary peace come over me.

I felt:

- A heat passing through the top of my head
- A warm expansion in my gut
- A physical lightness in my chest

Getting these expectations out in the open and out of the way is an important step. Below is a list explaining what the LU process is not:

This is not a way to escape your daily life.
This is not about gaining something extra, becoming something special.
This is not about cultivating an altered state of consciousness.
This isn’t a trick of the mind, or twisting the mind into believing certain thoughts.
This is not about gaining a particular bit of knowledge.
This is not about having a certain thought or sequence of thoughts.
This is not about becoming a holy, good, moral or better person.
This is not a belief, religion, or a philosophy, it not magical or mystical.
This is not going to lead you to eternal peace and happiness, it is not about happiness.
This is not about freedom from emotions and intense feelings.
This is not about getting rid of self, ego, I.
This is not a solution to problems in relationships.
This is not a way to get free of depression or other diseases.
This is not about stopping thoughts, changing thoughts, getting rid of thoughts.
This is not a way to make the story of you disappear.
This is not about convincing you of anything.
This is not something that will lead to accumulation of money or things.
This is not a self improvement program.
This is not about getting rid of, or changing physical pain.

What comes up as you read this in your Direct Experience?

A blank comes up mostly but a subtle kind of feeling of: Yes, ok…no problem….not the words in my head as a thought…just a gentle awareness of ‘ok’

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? It was all a made up story.

Honestly, what comes up is humor which is odd because maybe I should be pissed off but I’m not, that would be a waste of time. I just want to laugh my ass off or at the very least smile which I’m doing now.

[Steve101]

I’m not really sure whether I actually got the first DE exercise until you wrote:

Excellent, this is Direct Experience, we look without thought labelling to see whats actually there

Reading this really made me see what you were talking about.

Thank you Paul.