No controller, but is that it?

[has0i]

I attempted LU around 1 year ago. Completely fell off posting after some life circumstances, but then never checked the site again, even after getting back to normalcy. Many apologies to my previous guide. I would be very grateful if I could try the process again.

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
Life is just happening. No controller, no watcher anywhere.

What are you looking for at LU?
I wish to have a reduction/end to stress and suffering. Life feels tedious with worries about future, stress etc. From content of people who have awakened, they seem to be at ease.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I hope someone who has been through this can help me understand what to expect. I'm having doubts. I see there is no controller when I look, but is that it? If not, what entails going through the gate? Shouldn't there be an identity shift? Is it possible to guide me to a path which leads to end/reduction of suffering?

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Did some meditation very long back. Inquiry is what I've been doing primarily recently. Attempted LU 1 year ago. Seeds were probably planted back then since currently I can see there is no controller anywhere, when I remember to look. In the middle of day to day activities, this fact may be forgotten and life is lived as there is a controller. But when I remember and look again, it is clear things are just happening out of nowhere.
Is that it though or am I mistaken? There is no great joy, feeling of "I AM" which I hear frequently, or an identity shift, feeling I am the world or something. There is quite a bit of suffering too.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

LU is not designed to end suffering, only to see there there is no separate "self."

This can also come & go as we adjust to what is true. Watch this, please:

https://youtu.be/vJQcD588g2w

and

https://youtu.be/PUDzrCLlrj4

Watch those, please.

There is a model called Ten Fetters that may go in to some additional aspects of no self. Look for Pernille Damore on YouTube & others.

For no suffering, I always recommend The Work of Byron Katie, found here:

www.thework.com

I wish to have a reduction/end to stress and suffering

So check into those & let me know what you'd like to do.I can give you LU pointers, but if you already see there's no self, that may not be what is needed.

Loving,

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

Thank you very much for the reply. I think I may have seen what you mean by no self, but not sure though. Nothing ever happened here, indicating a shift or something similar. Would it be possible to go through the LU pointers/questions so we can check if I'm actually through and that I'm not just deluding myself? Some confirmation either way would be helpful, I think. Thanks again.

[Anastacia42]

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks



There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.



Here is an example to illustrate the difference:



If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:



• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.



• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!



Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.



For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.



Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that



We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..



Direct or Actual Experience is



Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.




Loving,

[Anastacia42]

So, yes, we can go through the pointers, starting with the above.

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I think that's clear.

Thanks
Hasif

[Anastacia42]

Good. Now try this:

Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[has0i]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Typing this reply:
Seeing keyboard, simply = image
Fingers on keyboard, simply = sensation
Mental image of face looking at screen, simply = thought
Fingers moving, simply = image
Narrating the words to type, simply = thought in form of sound
Sound of keys clicking, simply = sound
Breathing simply = sensation

While walking:
Legs moving, simply = image
Feeling of legs of the floor, simply = sensation
Feeling of breath in nose, throat, simply = sensation
Tightness in the face, simply = sensation
Mental image of face, simply = thought
Sound of feet hitting floor, simply = sound
Mental narration of words, simply = thought

Drinking water:
Hands opening the bottle, simply = image
Sensation of hands on the bottle, simply = sensation
Coolness and sensation of drinking, simply = sensation
Mental image of face, simply = thought


A very interesting thing I observed while doing this: I can't find precisely where decisions are made while the body does things. It's not like decisions are made in thought, followed by the body doing it. It's like some non-verbal impulses to do things happen, followed by the doing of them. Sometimes can't even find the non-verbal impulses. Very weird :)

Thanks a lot.
Hasif

[Anastacia42]

Very good & yes, decisions just show up. It's a mystery. We don't know where they come from. There are pointers for this that we'll do shortly.

But first:


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Loving,

[has0i]

I am typing
I am feeling sensation on face
I am thinking image of face
I am feeling the breath
I am seeing the screen
I am hearing the narration
I am seeing mental image of body
I am feeling breath in throat
I am feeling sensations in lower back
I am feeling sensations in legs
I am thinking to read the question again
I am touching my forehead
I am breathing
I am swallowing
I am feeling keyboard on my fingertips
I am seeing the clock
I am hearing sound of a motorbike
I am hearing the chirping outside
I am touching my face
I am smiling
I am smelling food
I am feeling the impulse to read through what I wrote
I am seeing the switches
I am touching my face
I am feeling the back of the seat
I am thinking an image of the back of the seat
I am typing
I am moving the body
I am moving the tongue
I am seeing mental images of body
I am feeling some sensations in the throat
I am feeling some heaviness around my eyes
I am moving the body


Touching the face
Moving the arms to type
Typing
Thinking image of face
Hearing the sound of a fan
Moving fingers
Moving the body
Feeling lower back
Feeling back of the seat
Feeling the typing
Seeing image of face
Feeling the mouth
Thinking about a friend
Moving the body
Typing
Hearing fan
Touching face
Moving arms
Seeing image of face
Seeing computer
Hearing background buzz
Getting up
Sitting down
Feeling the wind
Thinking about a friend
Hearing the sound of a kid
Feeling the legs
Moving arms
Checking time
Making a sound
Moving legs
Moving table
Moving arms
Typing
Feeling the face
Seeing image of face
Clearing the throat
Checking for the mouse
Walking to table
Taking the mouse
Walking back
Sitting
Typing
Clapping hands
Hearing a vehicle
Lying down
Getting up
Typing
Hearing narration
Checking time
Touching the chin
Thinking about body sensations
Touching face
Hearing movements

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

Second approach seems "truer" since it describes the experience fully even without tacking on the "I am.."

2. What is here without labels?

Experience. The sights, sounds, body actions, thoughts, sensations etc.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They describe. "Laptop" describes the visual, tactile experience of the laptop.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Sadly no. Body was pretty relaxed to begin with. It's much more relaxed after the exercise. During periods of stress, there usually are sensations such as anxiety, shame, contractions around throat and chest etc. But right now they are not present. Things are more "expansive" at the moment.

Many thanks for your time,
Hasif

[Anastacia42]

My pleasure. You've got this. Now...

Here is how to distinguish truth from lies.


We often lie every day & don't realize it.

For example, the grocery clerk asks, "How are you?" You reply, "I'm fine." While, yes. there is a sense in which we are always fine, even in the middle of suffering, at that moment, you were grieving the death of your dog, you had a slight sore throat & you had a headache, but you didn't feel like sharing all of that with the grocery clerk, so you lied, "I'm fine."

Also, it matters none at all how "distant" the remembered lie is. Besides the fact that time itself is fictional, a kind if lie, as we recall the lie it becomes present in this moment, as if it were happening now. This brings the body Sensation that accompanies lying.

Lies can be intentional or unintentional, conscious or unconscious, even so automatic that we ourselves are fooled.

The story of a separate "self" is a lie.

This is the lie you came here to see through. Therefore, it is helpful to notice the body Sensation of lying as one of the tools for finding the truth of no self.

You want to be in touch with body Sensations & able to clearly express them in words. This will help.

Lies are usually felt in the heart or solar plexus as a contraction that we may label as tight, heavy or tense.

In contrast, truth is usually expansive. We may call it loose, light or relaxed.

First, can you remember a time when you lied to someone you loved?

Here we count anything, lies we think of as "big" or "small" that "matter" or don't "matter."

How are you? I'm fine. No, your knee hurts, but you don't feel like discussing it with the grocery clerk.

It's a lie. A seemingly "bigger" one will work better for this exercise.

Find the lie. I don't need the whole story, just a few key words to refer to it.

Then scan your body for any Sensation (DE or Direct Experience), particularly in the gut or maybe the heart. Check very closely.

What is found?

If you think the memory you used wasn't clear enough, find another one or lie to yourself right now, make something up.

1 + 1 = 14 is a lie.

I love eating worms is (probably) a lie.

Or call up a video of a lying politician & notice what Sensations arise as you listen.

I will give you a clue: it is not that peaceful Sensation you felt before when you omitted "I." (refers to an exercise I gave before this one)

Please report back with what body Sensations (not interpretations) you feel. Bodies can feel hot or cold, heavy or light, contraction or expansion, etc.

"Peaceful" is an interpretation of a body Sensation, not the Sensation itself, for example.

Do you see that?

Loving,

[has0i]

What is found?

Memory that I used is that of playing a prank when I was a kid and not admitting that I did it.

Do you see that?

This is a hard one. Tried with a bunch of different memories. Sometimes when the memory a lie is brought up, there seems to be a pulsating tingling muscle tightness in chest and abs for a short time. But not sure if I'm making it up due to expectation.

I do see that peaceful is an interpretation of mostly neutral sensations, whereas anxious corresponds to burning sensations in chest, throat and tightness in face.

Thanks

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Getting there. Don't make it up.

Use some of the suggestions above that are not your memories.

Feel your gut, your solar plexus.

What Sensation is found there?

Loving,

[has0i]

Hi Stacy,

Around the gut and solar plexus, there are tingly sensations on the skin and some muscle tightness in abs, but nothing major comes up with the lying exercise. The chest and throat do get burning sensations usually when I'm anxious or stressed out. Currently there are sensations in the throat, but the most prominent sensation I feel, is a tightness on the face just below the eyes, which is there most of the time.

Thanks

[Anastacia42]

muscle tightness in abs

is probably it. Keep paying attention.


Actual/Direct Experience - Apple

Have a look at an apple (or any fruit you like.) If you have a ‘real’ apple, you can use it for this exercise. Google for a picture of an apple.



When looking at an apple, there's color; a thought saying ‘apple’; and maybe a thought saying, "I'm looking at an apple."

What is known for sure? Color is known and thoughts are known.

What about the content of thoughts, what they describe?

Actual experience does not refer to thoughts ABOUT something…because that is only just more thought.

Actual experience is sound, thought, color, smell, taste, sensation and the fact of thought arising, but not its content.

Is there really an ‘apple’ here, or only color and a thought ABOUT ‘apple’?

Can ‘apple’ be found in actual experience?

While these thoughts are known, what they talk ABOUT can't be found in actual experience.

This is what is meant by "looking in actual experience." What you know for sure, and, is always here.

Taste labeled ‘apple’ is known
Color labeled ‘apple’ is known
Sensation labeled ‘apple’ is known (when apple is touched)
Smell labeled ‘apple’ is known
Thought about/of an ‘apple’ is known

However, is an apple actually known?

Have fun and let me know what you find out.

Or this one?
Explore ‘Sense of Self’

Let’s say that you have lost your keys and you swear that you left them in your coat. You go to look and check all the pockets - the keys are not there. You swear they must be as that was the last place you remember them. You have a vivid memory of putting them there after you left the house. But when you check they are not there. At this point you can keep believing that the keys are in your pocket, or you can admit you were mistaken.

This is just like that. You may see clearly that the self is an illusion but still feel a sense of self - just like the keys. But feeling something to be true and seeing that it is or is not is different. This is why we may find ourselves coming back to your expectations at the start and at the end.

Now, I’d like to ask you to explore this SENSE of self very-very thoroughly. Not by thinking about it, but by FEELING it. Keep the focus of attention on the sense of self and inquire:

Does the sense of self have a location?

Does the sense of self have a shape or a size?

Does the sense of self say or communicate anything?

If the answer is yes, how does the sense do this exactly?

Does the sense of self have any characteristics or attributes?

What is the sense of self ‘made of’? An image? Sound? Taste? Smell? Sensation? Thought?

What is found?

LOOK. What do they point to? [/color]

Loving,