Looking for Guidance with the Fetters

[tdwicksy]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? I've already had some insight into seeing through the illusion of the self. I am absolutely committed to seeing this through to the end, and have been doing inquiry and practice for some time now. I know that there's nobody actually here and yet there are residual habits and beliefs that are holding me back from full realisation.

What are you looking for at LU? I would ideally like a guide who can help me navigate seeing through each of the fetters. I have heard of them and have done a little bit of research but do not know that much about them. I've tried a practice from Kevin Schanilec's 'Simply the Seen' website, however I'm not sure whether I've done it properly and could do with somebody experienced who could help guide me through each of them in turn.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? I hope to find someone who is able to help me systematically dismantle limiting belief systems. I'm already doing some other practices, but there is part of me that thinks it will be helpful to have a bit of a framework to work through, and an understanding of where I might be within that framework.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I started my spiritual practice with an interest in Buddhism and meditation. This quickly developed into a full on obsession with 'nonduality'. There is something about it that draws me in, like I don't really have a choice whether I'm following the path or not. I have had the initial realisation and seen through the self, but am in the period of integration between initial awakening and the later 'stages' of realisation.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

We do not guide the Fetters here. We only point to no self.

Look for someone who does, if you like or start here & finish elsewhere.

[Anastacia42]

So, do you want to do the no self part here and then move on to fetter work elsewhere?

There is a private Facebook group. You cannot see it unless you are invited. Do you want an invitation to that?

There are also these groups meeting on teleconference:

We have a couple of support groups that are meeting via teleconference and I'll give you the information on that.

There are 3 meetings.

Vince Shubert runs one on the weekends. Write to vinceschubert@gmail.com for the link & schedule.

Luchana & Lubo run one on Thursdays. Write to Luchana at luchanauzunova@gmail.com

Ilona holds a monthly meeting. Write admin@ilonaciunaite.com for that link & schedule.

If you do not want to be guided here, please let us know, so we can move this thread.,

Much love,

[tdwicksy]

Hi Stacey,

Thanks so much for your response.

I would love to do the no self part here!

Thank you for all of the information about the fetter work. I have already been invited to the Facebook fetter group and have attended one of Vince's meetings, but really appreciate the details about the other meetings as well.

Thank you so much :)

Tom

[Anastacia42]

Okay. Here's my usual introduction...

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.
Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?


Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving

[tdwicksy]

Hi Stacey,

Thanks so much for being my guide, I’m really looking forward to this!

Absolutely happy to respond every day and will give you a clear heads up if I’m unable to for whatever reason.

How will life change?

I don’t really expect life to change, I just think that the way ‘I’ relate to life will change. Without the constant need to relate everything that happens back to the imaginary person who lives in my thoughts and protect him, I will be more able to be with life as it actually is and hopefully be able to be more compassionate and loving to the people in my life.

How will you change?

I’m hoping that I will become less reactive to the world, more at ease with the way things are, less insistent that it changes to suit the imaginary ‘me’s’ desired outcomes and expectations.

What will be different?

The main difference I’m expecting is to be less invested or engaged in the constant ‘selfing’ of thoughts that are an ongoing feature of my day, and hopefully therefore be less prone to suffer as a consequence of believing these thoughts.

What is missing?

Nothing’s missing, the only thing to gain is shedding the layers of illusion that keep me from seeing what is already here clearly.

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Please call me Tom, my time zone is UK time 🙂

Thank you!
Tom

[Anastacia42]

Hi Tom,

Your expectations are fairly reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? It was all a made up story.

I'm in the US Mountain Time.

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Hi Tom,

Your expectations are fairly reasonable.

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? It was all a made up story.

I'm in the US Mountain Time.

Loving,

[tdwicksy]

Now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? It was all a made up story.

Part of me pops up and says ‘yes I know’. Then another part pops up and says ‘Are you sure? How do you know that you know?’. This debate can then be ongoing. There is an awareness that these are just thoughts, however there is some buy-in to the outcome of the debate.

There is also a very subtle feeling of unease in the pit of the stomach when reading it.

[Anastacia42]

Thank you period that question checks for fear and that's what that sense of unease may indicate period we'll talk about that feeling a little more and a bit

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:



Colored Socks



There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.



Here is an example to illustrate the difference:



If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:



• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.



• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!



Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.



For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.



Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that



We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..



Direct or Actual Experience is



Seeing

Hearing

Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)

Tasting

Smelling

Thoughts Arising (but not their content)



Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[tdwicksy]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

Yes this makes sense, I am clear about this.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Let's practice:


Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[tdwicksy]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please.

Feeling blanket on legs, simply = sensation
Seeing my phone, simply = image/colour
Seeing water bottle, simply = image/colour
Tasting water, simply = taste
Scratching neck, simply = sensation
Feet on the floor, simply = sensation
Thought about what to write on this list, simply = thought
Smell of the central heating, simply = smell
Hearing the clock ticking, simply = sound
Feeling my arm, back and legs on the sofa, simply = sensation
Feeling my stomach rise and fall, simply = sensation
Seeing the view out of the window, simply = image/colour
Typing this sentence on my phone, simply = sensation
Listening to my friend talking, simply = sound
Remembering yesterday, simply = thought
Taste of my mouth, simply = taste
Slight feeling of pain in lower back, simply = sensation
Light reflecting off coffee table, simply = image/colour

[Anastacia42]

Good. Yes.

Now let's go a bit farther.


Mind Labeling Experience

Here is an exercise which examines the way in which the mind labels experience - it takes about 20 minutes and you will need a pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 10 minute lots. For each 10 minute period pay attention to any bodily sensation i.e. is there any tightening, or any relaxing?

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

I am sitting on a chair,
I am hearing a clock ticking,
I am looking at a computer screen,
I am feeling hungry.

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the next ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”. Just describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

Sitting on a chair,
typing,
breathing,
blinking,
hearing the clock.

(Again, watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labelled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

2. What is here without labels?

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?


Loving,

[tdwicksy]

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?

The second is truer, things seem to just be happening.

2. What is here without labels?

Experience is still here without labels, sensations, thoughts, images, sounds, smells, tastes.

3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?

They just describe it.

4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

The body was much more relaxed in the second exercise. In the first exercise there was a distinct tightness in the chest and throat, particularly towards the end of the 10 minutes. There seemed to be some more subtle tightness in the rest of the body as well.