LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
What we habitually call our self is a collection of thoughts, that always refer to the past and future. The past and future are also thoughts generated by the mind. We wrongly identify these thoughts and the feelings they generate as ourselves. When this error is truly seen we become free from the enslavement of the mind.
What are you looking for at LU?
I am hoping to help others on the journey to the realization of no-self. I do not have personal experience in the method of inquiry used in this forum ,but hopefully can learn the guiding process to help others.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to gain some idea of how the pointing process is used to focus the seekers attention on seeing through the identification with the mind as self. From reading some of the threads I do have a general idea of the approach, but it also seems fairly specific in ways I am not familiar with.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I was a seeker since my teenage years.Mostly reading about Zen and Buddhist practices. In my late twenties I was in a spiritual community that was following a western teacher of Neo-Advaita. Despite having several strong spiritual experiences I grew tired of the community as It became more extreme and controlling. After seven years I left and tried to make a normal life for myself in the world. I felt that I had failed in my spiritual aspirations and abandoned any formal practice. Some 25 years later a crisis in my personal life led to a series of experiences which culminated in a spontaneous dropping away of the sense of self. This transformed my relationship to life instantly and permanently. I find that I am experiencing life as a continuously unfolding event without a doer. There is a sense of peace that is not affected by any emotional storms that the mind/body is going through.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10
Seeking guidance in guiding ?
Re: Seeking guidance in guiding ?
Hi Indra (is that your name or what may I call you?), what you wrote sounds great. I would be happy to tell you/talk with you about some of the direct pointing methods of LU (libertion unleashed) and you can join our guide group and guide here, if you might be interested in that?LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
What we habitually call our self is a collection of thoughts, that always refer to the past and future. The past and future are also thoughts generated by the mind. We wrongly identify these thoughts and the feelings they generate as ourselves. When this error is truly seen we become free from the enslavement of the mind.
What are you looking for at LU?
I am hoping to help others on the journey to the realization of no-self. I do not have personal experience in the method of inquiry used in this forum ,but hopefully can learn the guiding process to help others.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to gain some idea of how the pointing process is used to focus the seekers attention on seeing through the identification with the mind as self. From reading some of the threads I do have a general idea of the approach, but it also seems fairly specific in ways I am not familiar with.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I was a seeker since my teenage years.Mostly reading about Zen and Buddhist practices. In my late twenties I was in a spiritual community that was following a western teacher of Neo-Advaita. Despite having several strong spiritual experiences I grew tired of the community as It became more extreme and controlling. After seven years I left and tried to make a normal life for myself in the world. I felt that I had failed in my spiritual aspirations and abandoned any formal practice. Some 25 years later a crisis in my personal life led to a series of experiences which culminated in a spontaneous dropping away of the sense of self. This transformed my relationship to life instantly and permanently. I find that I am experiencing life as a continuously unfolding event without a doer. There is a sense of peace that is not affected by any emotional storms that the mind/body is going through.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10
For starters we have final questions in LU that give you access to the facebook "post seeing" group called Unleashed and then to the guide group where there is material on guiding. The way it works is I send you these "final questions", then I and 3 other guides look if anything might be further clarified with more questions/looking, and when we finish with that "you graduate LU". So if you are up for that I will send you those questions and then we will proceed from there?
Warmly,
Elad
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Seeking guidance in guiding ?
LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
What we habitually call our self is a collection of thoughts, that always refer to the past and future. The past and future are also thoughts generated by the mind. We wrongly identify these thoughts and the feelings they generate as ourselves. When this error is truly seen we become free from the enslavement of the mind.
What are you looking for at LU?
I am hoping to help others on the journey to the realization of no-self. I do not have personal experience in the method of inquiry used in this forum ,but hopefully can learn the guiding process to help others.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
I expect to gain some idea of how the pointing process is used to focus the seekers attention on seeing through the identification with the mind as self. From reading some of the threads I do have a general idea of the approach, but it also seems fairly specific in ways I am not familiar with.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
I was a seeker since my teenage years.Mostly reading about Zen and Buddhist practices. In my late twenties I was in a spiritual community that was following a western teacher of Neo-Advaita. Despite having several strong spiritual experiences I grew tired of the community as It became more extreme and controlling. After seven years I left and tried to make a normal life for myself in the world. I felt that I had failed in my spiritual aspirations and abandoned any formal practice. Some 25 years later a crisis in my personal life led to a series of experiences which culminated in a spontaneous dropping away of the sense of self. This transformed my relationship to life instantly and permanently. I find that I am experiencing life as a continuously unfolding event without a doer. There is a sense of peace that is not affected by any emotional storms that the mind/body is going through.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Seeking guidance in guiding ?
Hi Elad. You may call me J.P. Thank you for responding to my post. I would very much like to receive the final questions and look forward to joining your group if approved.
warm wishes
J.P
warm wishes
J.P
Re: Seeking guidance in guiding ?
Hi J.P - great!Hi Elad. You may call me J.P. Thank you for responding to my post. I would very much like to receive the final questions and look forward to joining your group if approved.
warm wishes
J.P
Please answer all these questions in one message. Please make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy to track which question you are answering. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After receiving your answer maybe we will inquire more together or maybe the other guides will have some things to inquire into with you. After that you and I will talk about onwards. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER:
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER:
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days (you can talk here about the difference before and after the shift happened for you, and include how it is now).
ANSWER:
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER:
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER:
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER:
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER:
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER:
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Re: Seeking guidance in guiding ?
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
ANSWER
There is no separate self. There never has been and never will be a separate self.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER
I don't know when the illusion of a separate self starts, maybe at birth or in early childhood. I cannot remember a time when I did not feel like a separate, independent person. I am aware how the mind maintains this illusion. Our raw experience of the world goes through a labelling process. The mind labels everything good, bad, dangerous, helpful etc . Our feelings and emotions are labeled shameful, desirable etc. Actions are labeled in the same way. We habitually view this collection of thoughts and feelings as ourselves.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days (you can talk here about the difference before and after the shift happened for you, and include how it is now).
ANSWER
Since I did not come to this understanding through self-inquiry I will give a brief description of how I came to ' wake-up'
In August 2023 I was facing a very personal crisis, the impending death of my wife of 27 years. I was unable to sleep one night and decided to meditate to try and relax. To my surprise I found myself sliding into a state of deep peace, my body felt like it had turned into pure energy without solid form, I felt like I was sitting in a infinite pool of bliss and peace. At some point I came out of this state and realized I had been sitting effortlessly for two hours. This experience although beautiful
did not provide any particular insight.
Two months later I was sitting in the bath one afternoon and suddenly realized my perception of my surroundings had changed , the space around me seemed to be filled with a tangible "presence" the walls themselves seemed to alive with sort of vibration. My own visual field shifted from a myopic tunnel vision to a broad panoramic vision. My sense of self shifted out of my skull to point somewhere above and behind my head. At this point I got dressed and walked outside. Everything I saw seemed to be glittering and wondrous as If I were seeing it for the first time. I this point I had the realization that everything my mind was telling my about my own identity was untrue. Instead of being a separate individual with a past and a future I realized I was a part of an infinite web of interrelated cosmic energy or life. I was perfect as I was , there was nowhere to go and nothing to become. I felt like a true human being for the first time. This was accompanied by a sense of deep inner peace. I knew that my life as I had known it was over.
Since that time this has been my ongoing experience. There were a few months of physical and emotional turmoil as I became used to my new reality. Now it feels very normal and unspectacular.
My relationships with people have changed radically. I feel a depth of intimacy and love for people in a way I was formerly incapable of. There is also a curious aloneness ( not loneliness) which I think comes from seeing the world in a way not shared by many of my fellow humans. Apologies for the length of this ,I got a bit carried away.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER
I don't have an answer for this.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER
I don't think any of these actually exist, in the absence of a separate self, the mind/body seems to navigate the world through some sort of intrinsic instinct/impulse to action.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER
At the personal, human level I think it some sort of natural impulse as described in my last answer.
On the macro scale of life and creation/destruction I have no idea what makes things happen.
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER
I am little unsure of the scope of the question, I have to say that the absence of a separate self means there is no-one to be responsible. In practical human terms I find my behavior conforms roughly to prior ethical and moral norms. Actually I notice that I have stopped telling lies so it is different in that respect.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER
No
ANSWER
There is no separate self. There never has been and never will be a separate self.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
ANSWER
I don't know when the illusion of a separate self starts, maybe at birth or in early childhood. I cannot remember a time when I did not feel like a separate, independent person. I am aware how the mind maintains this illusion. Our raw experience of the world goes through a labelling process. The mind labels everything good, bad, dangerous, helpful etc . Our feelings and emotions are labeled shameful, desirable etc. Actions are labeled in the same way. We habitually view this collection of thoughts and feelings as ourselves.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days (you can talk here about the difference before and after the shift happened for you, and include how it is now).
ANSWER
Since I did not come to this understanding through self-inquiry I will give a brief description of how I came to ' wake-up'
In August 2023 I was facing a very personal crisis, the impending death of my wife of 27 years. I was unable to sleep one night and decided to meditate to try and relax. To my surprise I found myself sliding into a state of deep peace, my body felt like it had turned into pure energy without solid form, I felt like I was sitting in a infinite pool of bliss and peace. At some point I came out of this state and realized I had been sitting effortlessly for two hours. This experience although beautiful
did not provide any particular insight.
Two months later I was sitting in the bath one afternoon and suddenly realized my perception of my surroundings had changed , the space around me seemed to be filled with a tangible "presence" the walls themselves seemed to alive with sort of vibration. My own visual field shifted from a myopic tunnel vision to a broad panoramic vision. My sense of self shifted out of my skull to point somewhere above and behind my head. At this point I got dressed and walked outside. Everything I saw seemed to be glittering and wondrous as If I were seeing it for the first time. I this point I had the realization that everything my mind was telling my about my own identity was untrue. Instead of being a separate individual with a past and a future I realized I was a part of an infinite web of interrelated cosmic energy or life. I was perfect as I was , there was nowhere to go and nothing to become. I felt like a true human being for the first time. This was accompanied by a sense of deep inner peace. I knew that my life as I had known it was over.
Since that time this has been my ongoing experience. There were a few months of physical and emotional turmoil as I became used to my new reality. Now it feels very normal and unspectacular.
My relationships with people have changed radically. I feel a depth of intimacy and love for people in a way I was formerly incapable of. There is also a curious aloneness ( not loneliness) which I think comes from seeing the world in a way not shared by many of my fellow humans. Apologies for the length of this ,I got a bit carried away.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?
ANSWER
I don't have an answer for this.
5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.
ANSWER
I don't think any of these actually exist, in the absence of a separate self, the mind/body seems to navigate the world through some sort of intrinsic instinct/impulse to action.
6) What makes things happen? How does it work?
ANSWER
At the personal, human level I think it some sort of natural impulse as described in my last answer.
On the macro scale of life and creation/destruction I have no idea what makes things happen.
7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
ANSWER
I am little unsure of the scope of the question, I have to say that the absence of a separate self means there is no-one to be responsible. In practical human terms I find my behavior conforms roughly to prior ethical and moral norms. Actually I notice that I have stopped telling lies so it is different in that respect.
6) Anything to add?
ANSWER
No
Re: Seeking guidance in guiding ?
Hi J.P
Lovely to read. I and three other guides read and confirmed, no questions, meaning you "graduated LU" :) Send an email to eladexplore1111@gmail.com we will continue to talk about guiding there. Nerina will contact you and add you to Unleashed and the guide group.
Lovely to read. I and three other guides read and confirmed, no questions, meaning you "graduated LU" :) Send an email to eladexplore1111@gmail.com we will continue to talk about guiding there. Nerina will contact you and add you to Unleashed and the guide group.
With love,
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
Elad
Keep me away from the wisdom which does not cry, the philosophy which does not laugh and the greatness which does not bow before children.
- Kahlil Gibran
One gets there by being there.
- Master Woof (Gilbert, Ta Hui)
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