Ready to play on the other side of the gate

[sisujalahke]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? There is no person in my head (or anywhere else). There's no separate thing "in here" that's experiencing everything "out there." No one in the driver's seat. No one making decisions. No one thinking, touching, feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, or tasting. Any sense of a self is merely a collection of thoughts plus maybe sensations in the head.

What are you looking for at LU? In my experience, I'm seeing on the other side of the gate. But it's new and fresh, like riding a bike without training wheels for the first time. I'd like to be challenged to help me sense a stronger footing. I'm looking for someone to detect my bullshit. Am I truly understanding this, or am I kidding myself? There's no doubt my experience has shifted. I'm curious about what it's like to go deeper.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? My only expectation is to have a one-on-one dialogue with someone else about waking up and being awake. I do a lot of writing, and no one's reading it but me. I have a curiosity and an interest in sharing my experience with someone.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I was a seeker for over 30 years. I was looking for purpose and meaning in my life: something that would get me out of bed in the morning and motivate me, something that would make me happy, something that made me feel good about who I was. I looked for it in my career, hobbies, and relationships. I looked for it in marriage and parenting. I looked for it in psychology, philosophy, and modern self-help content. I looked for it in religion. I looked for it through success, mastery, and expertise. I looked for it through therapy. So many dead ends. Well, not dead ends, because they were all part of the journey back home.

I started meditating about 10 years ago. Early on, it was a means to an end: to be happier and calmer. I'd meditate for 10-20 minutes per day, using apps and guided meditations. Was I "10% happier?" Sure. But I hadn't found what I was looking for.

About four years ago, I started using Sam Harris' Waking Up app. The content introduced me to the idea that there's no self. Some things resonated. Others didn't. But it opened my eyes. It introduced me to direct pointing and inquiry. I was meditating off and on, about 10 minutes per day.

About four months ago, I stumbled upon Angelo DiLullo on YouTube. I read his book and watched a bunch of his videos, and something resonated. When I heard he had a silent retreat coming up, it's something I had been curious about for years, so I decided to go for it. I went without expectations—only a plan to experience it with curiosity. I didn't experience any big shifts or deep realizations, but I did walk away with the idea to simply "surrender to experience," and I was grateful for it. At the end of the retreat, as I was waiting to thank him, I was rehearsing the conversation in my head when it hit me: I don't need to keep seeking anymore. I hadn't actually found the thing I thought I was looking for, but the seeker was dead. I started crying. 30+ years of looking, and I'd arrived—without going anywhere.

At the retreat, I met someone who mentioned Pernille Damore. I started watching her content, and that led me deeper. I started participating in Vince's weekly calls. Pernille and Vince introduced me to LU.

I read Liberation Unleashed, and it led me to realize I've experienced walking through the gate within the last few weeks. I can now see this as a "journeyless journey" that's only just begun. But I don't need to get anywhere. If you asked me, "If everything in your life five years from now is exactly the same as it is now, how would you feel?" I'd be totally fine with it. I don't need anything to improve.

My practice today? Paying attention to my direct experience. There's no ritual, no schedule, no habits. It's all spontaneous. When something arises in my experience that activates sensations, I look into it with wonder and curiosity. When I'm done with one activity, I sit for a few minutes and ask my body, "What do you need?" I don't always listen, but the habitual and unconscious following my of my ego has slowed down tremendously.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Elad]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? There is no person in my head (or anywhere else). There's no separate thing "in here" that's experiencing everything "out there." No one in the driver's seat. No one making decisions. No one thinking, touching, feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, or tasting. Any sense of a self is merely a collection of thoughts plus maybe sensations in the head.

What are you looking for at LU? In my experience, I'm seeing on the other side of the gate. But it's new and fresh, like riding a bike without training wheels for the first time. I'd like to be challenged to help me sense a stronger footing. I'm looking for someone to detect my bullshit. Am I truly understanding this, or am I kidding myself? There's no doubt my experience has shifted. I'm curious about what it's like to go deeper.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? My only expectation is to have a one-on-one dialogue with someone else about waking up and being awake. I do a lot of writing, and no one's reading it but me. I have a curiosity and an interest in sharing my experience with someone.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I was a seeker for over 30 years. I was looking for purpose and meaning in my life: something that would get me out of bed in the morning and motivate me, something that would make me happy, something that made me feel good about who I was. I looked for it in my career, hobbies, and relationships. I looked for it in marriage and parenting. I looked for it in psychology, philosophy, and modern self-help content. I looked for it in religion. I looked for it through success, mastery, and expertise. I looked for it through therapy. So many dead ends. Well, not dead ends, because they were all part of the journey back home.

I started meditating about 10 years ago. Early on, it was a means to an end: to be happier and calmer. I'd meditate for 10-20 minutes per day, using apps and guided meditations. Was I "10% happier?" Sure. But I hadn't found what I was looking for.

About four years ago, I started using Sam Harris' Waking Up app. The content introduced me to the idea that there's no self. Some things resonated. Others didn't. But it opened my eyes. It introduced me to direct pointing and inquiry. I was meditating off and on, about 10 minutes per day.

About four months ago, I stumbled upon Angelo DiLullo on YouTube. I read his book and watched a bunch of his videos, and something resonated. When I heard he had a silent retreat coming up, it's something I had been curious about for years, so I decided to go for it. I went without expectations—only a plan to experience it with curiosity. I didn't experience any big shifts or deep realizations, but I did walk away with the idea to simply "surrender to experience," and I was grateful for it. At the end of the retreat, as I was waiting to thank him, I was rehearsing the conversation in my head when it hit me: I don't need to keep seeking anymore. I hadn't actually found the thing I thought I was looking for, but the seeker was dead. I started crying. 30+ years of looking, and I'd arrived—without going anywhere.

At the retreat, I met someone who mentioned Pernille Damore. I started watching her content, and that led me deeper. I started participating in Vince's weekly calls. Pernille and Vince introduced me to LU.

I read Liberation Unleashed, and it led me to realize I've experienced walking through the gate within the last few weeks. I can now see this as a "journeyless journey" that's only just begun. But I don't need to get anywhere. If you asked me, "If everything in your life five years from now is exactly the same as it is now, how would you feel?" I'd be totally fine with it. I don't need anything to improve.

My practice today? Paying attention to my direct experience. There's no ritual, no schedule, no habits. It's all spontaneous. When something arises in my experience that activates sensations, I look into it with wonder and curiosity. When I'm done with one activity, I sit for a few minutes and ask my body, "What do you need?" I don't always listen, but the habitual and unconscious following my of my ego has slowed down tremendously.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

Hi! My name is Elad and I'm a guide here. It sounds like "the gateless gate has been crossed" and so in a sense you are past what we do here at LU. But we could write together, I can ask you some questions to check different aspects of post gate experience, you can share and ask questions. Maybe this will just be a short process giving you access to the Liberation Unleashed "graduates" community or it will be longer depending on what we see feels enjoyable and/or helpful. How does that sound to you? What may I call you?

[sisujalahke]

...I can ask you some questions to check different aspects of post gate experience, you can share and ask questions. Maybe this will just be a short process giving you access to the Liberation Unleashed "graduates" community or it will be longer depending on what we see feels enjoyable and/or helpful. How does that sound to you?

That sounds great, Elad. Thanks.

After submitting my initial message, I realized I crossed my interpretation of the gateless gate. I'm curious about whether my interpretation is close to yours. Would you be willing to ask me some clarifying questions?

I think there may be some doubt at play here.

What may I call you?

Let's go with Sisu for now.

[Elad]

Great Sisu. First of all, I wanna recommend you to honor the shift that happened. If anything that happens here feels like it takes you more into efforting and doubting-intellectualizing and out of simplicity, consider leaving it for now. Let the process be natural.

Here are some questions, please answer each one:

Do you control thought?

Do you control sensations?

Do you control attention?

Do you control movement?

Remember, always answer only from direct experience, attending here and now. Never from past experience, inference or mere vague feelings and beliefs.

[sisujalahke]

The first thing that arises with these questions is, what is the "you" here? The only sensations in my experience are feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and thinking. The "I" cannot be found in any of these. And these sensations don't and can't control anything. If the "I" is not in these, and there's nowhere else for this personal, separate "I" to be, and these things don't control anything, then I don't control anything. (Is this too much inferring?)

Do you control thought?

No. I can find evidence that I don't control thought. For example, right now, I closed my eyes and sat for a moment, waiting for the next thought. What arose was the name and image of a girl in my school with I was 11. What?! I know I didn't choose that thought.

I also can't seem control whether or not I remember something.

And I can't find any evidence in my direct experience that I do control thoughts.

I think I often forget this, falling back into the delusion that I'm the thinker. But every time I pause and look, it's clear that I'm not.

Do you control sensations?

No. This, too, is clear when I close my eyes and sit. I can't make any particular sensation appear nor disappear. All sensations appear to arise and fade on their own.

Do you control attention?

This has been a sticky one for me. I've assumed that I can focus my attention at will. When I actually look, I don't seem to experience that. If I think I'm controlling my attention in a given moment, something can capture it and pull it away.

Do you control movement?

This has been even stickier than the belief that I control my attention. I've assumed I control movement.

When I look now, the only evidence I have that movement is happening is in my sensations (bodily sensations, thinking, seeing, etc.), which I don't control.

I also know that at least some movement occurs automatically (e.g. breathing, blinking). Movement that doesn't seem to occur automatically is correlated with thought, and yet I know I don't control my thoughts.


I'd welcome some pointers here.

[Elad]

The first thing that arises with these questions is, what is the "you" here? The only sensations in my experience are feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and thinking. The "I" cannot be found in any of these. And these sensations don't and can't control anything. If the "I" is not in these, and there's nowhere else for this personal, separate "I" to be, and these things don't control anything, then I don't control anything. (Is this too much inferring?)

Do you control thought?

No. I can find evidence that I don't control thought. For example, right now, I closed my eyes and sat for a moment, waiting for the next thought. What arose was the name and image of a girl in my school with I was 11. What?! I know I didn't choose that thought.

I also can't seem control whether or not I remember something.

And I can't find any evidence in my direct experience that I do control thoughts.

I think I often forget this, falling back into the delusion that I'm the thinker. But every time I pause and look, it's clear that I'm not.

Do you control sensations?

No. This, too, is clear when I close my eyes and sit. I can't make any particular sensation appear nor disappear. All sensations appear to arise and fade on their own.

Do you control attention?

This has been a sticky one for me. I've assumed that I can focus my attention at will. When I actually look, I don't seem to experience that. If I think I'm controlling my attention in a given moment, something can capture it and pull it away.

Do you control movement?

This has been even stickier than the belief that I control my attention. I've assumed I control movement.

When I look now, the only evidence I have that movement is happening is in my sensations (bodily sensations, thinking, seeing, etc.), which I don't control.

I also know that at least some movement occurs automatically (e.g. breathing, blinking). Movement that doesn't seem to occur automatically is correlated with thought, and yet I know I don't control my thoughts.


I'd welcome some pointers here.

Hi Sisu, this is great, you are looking, attending.

Lets look more at movement. Any movement. For example flip the palm of your hand up and down. Can you find a place in the body or an agent or anything else that decides when and how the movement happens? Look at that movement and other movements, attend to how they happen in real time, is there a separate agent anywhere controlling the particular unique unfolding? When there is a shift from no movement to movement in what would conventionally be called a voluntary movement, can you find anything separate deciding or controlling it?

You can also look at the movement of others, or animals, and look to see if you can sense/see a separate agent in them controlling movement?

[Elad]

"The first thing that arises with these questions is, what is the "you" here? The only sensations in my experience are feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and thinking. The "I" cannot be found in any of these. And these sensations don't and can't control anything. If the "I" is not in these, and there's nowhere else for this personal, separate "I" to be, and these things don't control anything, then I don't control anything. (Is this too much inferring?)"

Only you can feel from inside if this is seeing/experiencing or just inferring/believing. I mean sometimes the language can sound more or less like direct experience, but in the end it's all about what is experienced in direct experience.

Does it feel like direct experience beyond doubt or as a belief for you?

[sisujalahke]

For example flip the palm of your hand up and down. Can you find a place in the body or an agent or anything else that decides when and how the movement happens?

I noticed something interesting with this exercise. When I first started to flip my hand back and forth, there was a correlated thought. But when I repeatedly did it, the thought was gone. I could feel the sensations in my hand. I could see the hand moving. But there was no thought anymore—at least related to controlling the flipping of the hand. I directly experienced my own body moving without any sense of a doer!

Look at that movement and other movements, attend to how they happen in real time, is there a separate agent anywhere controlling the particular unique unfolding?

This gave me an experiential understanding of "things just happen" or "there is simply happening." The thoughts I thought were correlated aren't. If I imagine picking up a mug before my hand moves, the thought is separate from the movement, and the movement doesn't always follow the thought.

When there is a shift from no movement to movement in what would conventionally be called a voluntary movement, can you find anything separate deciding or controlling it?

No. (!) It's just as mysterious as my heart beating—or breathing.

Does it feel like direct experience beyond doubt or as a belief for you?

The knowing from direct experience is now more distinguishable from "knowing" from belief (e.g. how science has told me that there's a part of my brain that controls involuntary breathing). I can now see in experience that I can't find a controller in any movement.

[Elad]

For example flip the palm of your hand up and down. Can you find a place in the body or an agent or anything else that decides when and how the movement happens?

I noticed something interesting with this exercise. When I first started to flip my hand back and forth, there was a correlated thought. But when I repeatedly did it, the thought was gone. I could feel the sensations in my hand. I could see the hand moving. But there was no thought anymore—at least related to controlling the flipping of the hand. I directly experienced my own body moving without any sense of a doer!

Look at that movement and other movements, attend to how they happen in real time, is there a separate agent anywhere controlling the particular unique unfolding?

This gave me an experiential understanding of "things just happen" or "there is simply happening." The thoughts I thought were correlated aren't. If I imagine picking up a mug before my hand moves, the thought is separate from the movement, and the movement doesn't always follow the thought.

When there is a shift from no movement to movement in what would conventionally be called a voluntary movement, can you find anything separate deciding or controlling it?

No. (!) It's just as mysterious as my heart beating—or breathing.

Does it feel like direct experience beyond doubt or as a belief for you?

The knowing from direct experience is now more distinguishable from "knowing" from belief (e.g. how science has told me that there's a part of my brain that controls involuntary breathing). I can now see in experience that I can't find a controller in any movement.

Beautiful Sisu! Anyhting else in particular you would like to explore here, anything that feels confusing in regards to seeing through the self illusion? We also have some final questions at LU when people seem to have "crossed the gateless gate". 4 guides (me and 3 others) look at the answers if something more can be clarified. When you feel ready I can send you those. After that you can join the post-gate community and I will tell you other options to play and explore "with peers".

[sisujalahke]

I’m open to answering the final questions.

[Elad]

I’m open to answering the final questions.

Okay! Please answer all these questions in one message. Please make sure you answer each one below "ANSWER" so it is easy for the other guides to track what questions you are answering. Make sure to answer all questions. Take all the time you need and enjoy. After recieving your answer maybe we will inquire more together or maybe the other guides will have some things to inquire into with you. After that you and I will talk about onwards, lovely opportunities to stay in touch and exchange with "like-minded/hearted". Remember, answer only from direct experience, not from conviction or past experience. If something doesn't feel possible to answer, stay honest to that. Keep it simple and real. Enjoy.





1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER:

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

ANSWER:

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER:

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER:

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER:

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER:

6) Anything to add?

ANSWER:

[sisujalahke]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:

No. It is and has been an illusion. It only seems like it's there—in thoughts, beliefs, stories, and memories. In my direct experience, which is only available in the present, never-ending moment, a separate self cannot be found. It's not in my bodily sensations. It's not in the field of vision. I can't hear it, smell it, or taste it. It's all smoke and mirrors.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER:

The illusion of a separate self is a pattern of thoughts, specifically beliefs. Beliefs are thoughts that seem to be very familiar—easily recognized. They're about my personality, stories about my past, my likes and dislikes. I don't have proof that these thoughts have occurred before, but they arise and are recognized so effortlessly that it seems like they've occurred before many, many times, and I take them to be true. These beliefs appear to be different than others' beliefs, where there are different names, different stories, different likes and dislikes. This adds to the belief that my illusory self is different than everyone else's and must be separate and real.

Pure speculation: At a very young age, we are taught by our parents and others around us that we are our name, which is different from "Mommy" and "Daddy." People pointed at us and said our name, and then pointed at things in our field of vision and gave those things labels. These thought-patterns occurred over and over, leading to a belief that "I am in here and everything else is out there, different and separate." These thoughts and beliefs repeat an incomprehensible number of times throughout childhood and adolescence, constantly reinforcing the belief that "I am me, a separate person and thing from everything else, with my own personality, stories, and desires."

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

ANSWER:

It feels like freedom and contentment. I'm experiencing more calmness and relaxation. There's more presence, less hurrying or anticipation for the next moment. It's the complete opposite of rushing from one thing to another.

Experiencing is more vivid. I seem to be able to take in more from multiple senses at the same time. I'm less distracted by and pulled into thoughts. I'm picking up subtler sensations in the body. I'm noticing more contraction in where the back of my head meets my neck. There's no problem with this. I'm finding it interesting and just sitting with it.

The main difference between now and when we started this dialogue is the deeper realization that I don't control my attention nor my movement. Things just happen. This deepened the sense of freedom and contentment. And it made it easier to accept everything as it is.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER:

I'm not actually sure I can recall a precise tipping point. It was more like death by a thousand cuts.

One type of experience that seems to have had a big impact is looking for bodily sensations and thoughts at the same time. I had done meditation for years, paying attention to the sensations of breathing, feeling my feet on the floor, or noticing where in the body there's tension. But I hadn't done that "off the cushion" when triggered in everyday life. Once I started noticing the distinction between bodily sensations of contraction and the thoughts and beliefs and expectations that arising at the same time, I looked deeper. I found no obvious connection. The rules and expectations started to dissolve.

Another thing that helped here in this thread was experiencing my hand flipping back and forth. What I thought was a strong connection between conscious thought and movement—I couldn't find it anymore.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER:

They're all illusions. If there is an "I" who has free will, I can't find it in my experience. I don't control the thoughts that arise that make up options from which to choose. From those options, a decision happens, but I can't find the decider. If anything seems like a decider, a controller, it's only a thought. Thoughts can't do anything: can't think, can't choose, can't control. Beyond thought, there are only sensory experiences, which also can't do anything. I'm unable to find an agent anywhere.

At the same time, I can't prove there's not one. I simply can't find any evidence in my experience to support the existence of a decider, a controller, an "I." It's a bit like alien life. I can't prove aliens are real, but I also can't prove they're not. There's just no evidence to support their existence. If they're real, they exist outside my experience. And my experience right now is the closest thing that can be said to have any truth.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER:

I don't know. It's a mystery. Things simply happen without an apparent actor anywhere.

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER:

I think there's a distinction between the concepts of responsibility and accountability. To me, responsibility is related to action, a task. Because I cannot find a decider nor a doer, there is no "I" or "me" who is responsible for the actions of my body and mind. I see accountability as a subtle distinction versus responsibility. If I treat someone poorly, I can't simply say, "There is no 'me' here who did the bad deed, so I'm off the hook!" I must accept the consequences of my actions; that's accountability.

However, there is a sense of responsibility for how I perceive events and people. How I perceive others is my responsibility, not theirs. If my wife does or says something that activates feelings or emotions, that's on me, not her. If my dog barks out the window of my house, and annoyance arises, to the extent that the barking is a problem, that's a problem in me, not a problem with my dog. It being a problem is my responsibility. My dog's just being a dog. And when I look within, I don't actually find a thing called "annoyance." I feel bodily sensations, and I notice a story, a belief, that says, "My dog shouldn't bark. It's too loud, and it hurts my ears. The person walking on the sidewalk probably things I'm a bad dog owner. I should have trained my dog better." But this story isn't real—just thoughts. The problem is an illusion.

6) Anything to add?

ANSWER:

It's all so very strange! For years, I couldn't shake the idea of there being an "I" inside my head looking out at the world "out there." When I looked, I seemed to find evidence, and I was trying so hard to look for evidence that this self wasn't there.

Now, it seems to have flipped: I don't sense an "I," and I keep looking for one and not finding it. There is only feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and thinking.

And with thoughts, they arise in the present, yet they're only ever about something else. They're no big deal. No more regrets about the past. No yearning for a better future. No wishing for things to be different. I can't say thoughts about regrets or wishes never arise, but they're quickly identified as only thoughts, thoughts I didn't control, and they're dismissed.

The whole world is in me, yet it's like my whole world has been lifted off my shoulders. There's a lightness, an okayness, with everything—contentment.

[Elad]

1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?

ANSWER:

No. It is and has been an illusion. It only seems like it's there—in thoughts, beliefs, stories, and memories. In my direct experience, which is only available in the present, never-ending moment, a separate self cannot be found. It's not in my bodily sensations. It's not in the field of vision. I can't hear it, smell it, or taste it. It's all smoke and mirrors.

2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.

ANSWER:

The illusion of a separate self is a pattern of thoughts, specifically beliefs. Beliefs are thoughts that seem to be very familiar—easily recognized. They're about my personality, stories about my past, my likes and dislikes. I don't have proof that these thoughts have occurred before, but they arise and are recognized so effortlessly that it seems like they've occurred before many, many times, and I take them to be true. These beliefs appear to be different than others' beliefs, where there are different names, different stories, different likes and dislikes. This adds to the belief that my illusory self is different than everyone else's and must be separate and real.

Pure speculation: At a very young age, we are taught by our parents and others around us that we are our name, which is different from "Mommy" and "Daddy." People pointed at us and said our name, and then pointed at things in our field of vision and gave those things labels. These thought-patterns occurred over and over, leading to a belief that "I am in here and everything else is out there, different and separate." These thoughts and beliefs repeat an incomprehensible number of times throughout childhood and adolescence, constantly reinforcing the belief that "I am me, a separate person and thing from everything else, with my own personality, stories, and desires."

3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before we started this dialogue? Please report from the past couple of days.

ANSWER:

It feels like freedom and contentment. I'm experiencing more calmness and relaxation. There's more presence, less hurrying or anticipation for the next moment. It's the complete opposite of rushing from one thing to another.

Experiencing is more vivid. I seem to be able to take in more from multiple senses at the same time. I'm less distracted by and pulled into thoughts. I'm picking up subtler sensations in the body. I'm noticing more contraction in where the back of my head meets my neck. There's no problem with this. I'm finding it interesting and just sitting with it.

The main difference between now and when we started this dialogue is the deeper realization that I don't control my attention nor my movement. Things just happen. This deepened the sense of freedom and contentment. And it made it easier to accept everything as it is.

4) What was the last bit that pushed you over; made you look?

ANSWER:

I'm not actually sure I can recall a precise tipping point. It was more like death by a thousand cuts.

One type of experience that seems to have had a big impact is looking for bodily sensations and thoughts at the same time. I had done meditation for years, paying attention to the sensations of breathing, feeling my feet on the floor, or noticing where in the body there's tension. But I hadn't done that "off the cushion" when triggered in everyday life. Once I started noticing the distinction between bodily sensations of contraction and the thoughts and beliefs and expectations that arising at the same time, I looked deeper. I found no obvious connection. The rules and expectations started to dissolve.

Another thing that helped here in this thread was experiencing my hand flipping back and forth. What I thought was a strong connection between conscious thought and movement—I couldn't find it anymore.

5) Describe decision, intention, free will, choice and control.

ANSWER:

They're all illusions. If there is an "I" who has free will, I can't find it in my experience. I don't control the thoughts that arise that make up options from which to choose. From those options, a decision happens, but I can't find the decider. If anything seems like a decider, a controller, it's only a thought. Thoughts can't do anything: can't think, can't choose, can't control. Beyond thought, there are only sensory experiences, which also can't do anything. I'm unable to find an agent anywhere.

At the same time, I can't prove there's not one. I simply can't find any evidence in my experience to support the existence of a decider, a controller, an "I." It's a bit like alien life. I can't prove aliens are real, but I also can't prove they're not. There's just no evidence to support their existence. If they're real, they exist outside my experience. And my experience right now is the closest thing that can be said to have any truth.

6) What makes things happen? How does it work?

ANSWER:

I don't know. It's a mystery. Things simply happen without an apparent actor anywhere.

7) What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.

ANSWER:

I think there's a distinction between the concepts of responsibility and accountability. To me, responsibility is related to action, a task. Because I cannot find a decider nor a doer, there is no "I" or "me" who is responsible for the actions of my body and mind. I see accountability as a subtle distinction versus responsibility. If I treat someone poorly, I can't simply say, "There is no 'me' here who did the bad deed, so I'm off the hook!" I must accept the consequences of my actions; that's accountability.

However, there is a sense of responsibility for how I perceive events and people. How I perceive others is my responsibility, not theirs. If my wife does or says something that activates feelings or emotions, that's on me, not her. If my dog barks out the window of my house, and annoyance arises, to the extent that the barking is a problem, that's a problem in me, not a problem with my dog. It being a problem is my responsibility. My dog's just being a dog. And when I look within, I don't actually find a thing called "annoyance." I feel bodily sensations, and I notice a story, a belief, that says, "My dog shouldn't bark. It's too loud, and it hurts my ears. The person walking on the sidewalk probably things I'm a bad dog owner. I should have trained my dog better." But this story isn't real—just thoughts. The problem is an illusion.

6) Anything to add?

ANSWER:

It's all so very strange! For years, I couldn't shake the idea of there being an "I" inside my head looking out at the world "out there." When I looked, I seemed to find evidence, and I was trying so hard to look for evidence that this self wasn't there.

Now, it seems to have flipped: I don't sense an "I," and I keep looking for one and not finding it. There is only feeling, seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and thinking.

And with thoughts, they arise in the present, yet they're only ever about something else. They're no big deal. No more regrets about the past. No yearning for a better future. No wishing for things to be different. I can't say thoughts about regrets or wishes never arise, but they're quickly identified as only thoughts, thoughts I didn't control, and they're dismissed.

The whole world is in me, yet it's like my whole world has been lifted off my shoulders. There's a lightness, an okayness, with everything—contentment.

Hi Sisu. I read your answers with pleasure and appreciation. Three others guides read them and had no questions or clarifications, meaning you have "graduated LU". As you know the gate is gateless and only direct experience matters for real. What is gonna happen now is you will be invited to the facebook group called Unleashed, for LU graduates. If you join it I will meet you there, we can connect on Facebook and I will tell you about further options for exploration and sharing with peers. I am also happy to stay in touch there and you can always reach out if you want to share or ask something (just in the spirit of "Dharma friends", no hierarchy). If you don't use facebook you can write your email here and we can connect that way. I enjoyed doing this with you! With love, Elad

[sisujalahke]

Thank you, Elad.