So what

[Malva]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
The realization of the absence of a separate self “who” is manging experience; not seer not listener not thinker not chooser
The difference between the actual experience, just happening, and the layer of thought on top that attach that happening to a “me” as a separate entity that can control it.

What are you looking for at LU?
Someone to guide me through that pathless path or gateless gate helping me seeing all the assumptions and veils on top of my direct experience that still makes me feel that I exist and control “my life”, my actions in a way or at least someone who suffer the consequences of them.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Honesty in the first place. I am completly opened to give myself (all that identities that I still hold on to) into the process.
Clarity and direct experience rather than words and intellectualization.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
About 7 years of seeking, meditation and kind of acim work at the benning and more inquiry and emotional and shadow work know.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11

[Elad]

Hello, my name is Elad and I would be happy to do this exploration with you, if we see that it makes sense. Please read and respond to the following points.

1. During this process we will attend only to your own direct experience. We will not be discussing theories or beliefs or other methods, including from non-duality and etc. I will ask you questions and give exercises and you will look and answer me from your direct experience.

2. The two most important ingredients in this process are your wish to see what is true and your willingness to look deeply at questions, give wholehearted engagement to experiments/exercises presented to you, and report your experience here with 100% honesty.

3. Please read the following documents from LU *carefully* and let me know or ask questions if you have any reservations or doubts regarding them:


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2

And:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


4. For the process to be focused and fruitful, I like to make an agreement that both guide and client (i.e you and me if we do this together) respond on this thread every day, and in the case of special circumstances where we cannot, still touch space here on the thread to say so, the day before or on the day. In the same spirit, I work with people who have the motivation and availability to make this process a primary priority in their life for the duration of the cooperation. If any of this does not fit your life rhythm, style or preferences, please let me know and another guide will work with you.

What may I call you?

Warmly,
Elad

[Malva]

Hi Elad! I´m so happy to start this investigation with you, thank you for your commitment and be sure that I´m full in too.

As a disclaimer, only want to tell you that I´m Spanish and my English is not as fluent as it should be although I understand it perfectly...not a problem really, this is not a matter of words it's really beyond them but only to let you know in case I don't explain myself properly.

I´m totally willing to write and check with you daily and bring my direct experience investigation from moment to moment, sure.

My name is Marifé.

So much gratitude here!

Kind regards,
Marifé

[Elad]

Hi Marifé, great! Let's start:

In direct experience what does Marifé or "I" or "self" refer to?

Warmly,
Elad

[Malva]

Hi!

In direct experience what does Marifé or "I" or "self" refer to?

A body + internal narrative + memories/stories + future planning/guessing that a kind of felt thought defines as mine/me

Best,
Marifé

[Elad]

Hi!

In direct experience what does Marifé or "I" or "self" refer to?

A body + internal narrative + memories/stories + future planning/guessing that a kind of felt thought defines as mine/me

Best,
Marifé

Hi Marifé. Ok, so look and tell me what do these contents you wrote refer to in direct experience?

About direct experience:

[Elad]

Coloured Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.
Here is an example to illustrate the difference: If I ask you what colour socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can have a think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what colour you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what colour they actually are!
Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference. Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience (from now DE) in the moment.

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[Malva]

Hi Elad,

That was so helpful, thank you!

In direct experience what does Marifé or "I" or "self" refer to?
A body + internal narrative + memories/stories + future planning/guessing that a kind of felt thought defines as mine/me

Ok, so look and tell me what do these contents you wrote refer to in direct experience?

In direct experience there´s only a sense of looking, all that I wrote before was an after reflection, after thoughts.

[Elad]

Hi Elad,

That was so helpful, thank you!

In direct experience what does Marifé or "I" or "self" refer to?
A body + internal narrative + memories/stories + future planning/guessing that a kind of felt thought defines as mine/me

Ok, so look and tell me what do these contents you wrote refer to in direct experience?

In direct experience there´s only a sense of looking, all that I wrote before was an after reflection, after thoughts.

Glad to hear Marifé. Great.

Now regarding the sense of looking: Does it have center? A border? Can it be found separate from the whole of experience? Does it say it is a self?

[Malva]

Hi!

Now regarding the sense of looking: Does it have center? A border? Can it be found separate from the whole of experience? Does it say it is a self?

There´s not a center but a kind of "movement from". No border. Not separate from experience. The looking doesn´t say anything, although the question "who is doing the looking?" appears.

[Elad]

Good. Now: movement "from" what?

Is there a movement from something that can be found or is "movement from" an idea, a habitual belief with no findable basis in reality? What is clear in DE?

Good that the question "who is looking?" appears, or if it works for you maybe even better "what is looking?" ("what" keeps it open it might not be "a self").

Where does the question appear from? And other thoughts also, where do they appear from and where do they disappear to?

[Malva]

movement "from" what?

Is there a movement from something that can be found or is "movement from" an idea, a habitual belief with no findable basis in reality? What is clear in DE?

In the visual field, for instance, seems to be a movement of attention from one object to another but in DE there is only a sensation, that it's assumed to be in the head, the so called "reference point" for that movement.

I get trapped in "attention" though I know it's only a concept...is it a movement from one appearance to another or a kind of "step foward" of themselves?

Good that the question "who is looking?" appears, or if it works for you maybe even better "what is looking?" ("what" keeps it open it might not be "a self").

Where does the question appear from? And other thoughts also, where do they appear from and where do they disappear to?

The question appears within the looking, like any other thought

But all that I´ve written it's not really DE, I "see" know, it´s only a reflection of it...at zero distance, "real time" expereance there's only DE, the "knowing" is afterwards....I don´t know if that makes sense but I can express it other way.

Thank you so much!

[Elad]

"In the visual field, for instance, seems to be a movement of attention from one object to another but in DE there is only a sensation, that it's assumed to be in the head, the so called "reference point" for that movement."

Okay so you are aware none of that refers to a self in DE.

"I get trapped in "attention" though I know it's only a concept...is it a movement from one appearance to another or a kind of "step foward" of themselves?"

This question will take us into conceptualizing. Let's leave it for now okay?


"But all that I´ve written it's not really DE, I "see" know, it´s only a reflection of it...at zero distance, "real time" expereance there's only DE, the "knowing" is afterwards....I don´t know if that makes sense but I can express it other way"

Right on. Stay with this.

How does it feel to see this?

[Elad]

So separate self, doer, decider, controller, manager, are only concepts, never existed for real, never will.

Is it true?

How do you react to this?

[Malva]

How does it feel to see this?

It feels so obvious and at the same time doubt appears and It seems like there’s a looking for validation.

So separate self, doer, decider, controller, manager, are only concepts, never existed for real, never will.

Is it true?

In DE I can’t find it…

How do you react to this?

There’s so much energy in the body and doubt thoughts like I said before