Welcome it all....

[Glenda]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this? Conceptually I understand there is no inherent self. Experientially when I sincerely inquire, I understand there is no inherent self, there is no one "I" controlling everything. I see that I don't produce my thoughts, feelings, emotions, perceptions, they just happen. I see I am mechanical, a puppet ....there is no specific me.

What are you looking for at LU? I still have a strong belief that "I", "Me"...is in control, even with a conceptual and sometime experiential understanding that there is no "me". I just started working with the fetters with Pernille. I am seeking help to go beyond the strong belief that I hold, that I am a solid "person" ruling my life, that still grips me.

What do you expect from a guided conversation? Good question, straight forward, blunt, direction. I am open to pointers, I am open to another way of looking. I appreciate directness in a guide, I am not a fluffy person, I prefer straight forward, blunt, direction. I would rather have someone tell me I am "wrong", then offer me kind words so they won't hurt my feelings. I am seeking directness, to cut through the remaining strong beliefs.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry? I have practiced Zen for several years, participated in many non-dual classes and retreats for years and years. Inquiry is what works best for me. I just started fetter work with Pernille, it resonates deeply with me.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Anastacia42]

Hi,

If you're working with Pernille, why are you here also? We recommend one kind of guiding at a time.

Loving,

[Glenda]

Hi Stacy
Sorry for the delay in responding.. Good question. I am not working with Pernille on a one-to-one basis. I watch her videos and show up in the groups she has every second week. I also watch Vince's videos, would love to show up in person but have another commitment I cannot change.
Pernille and Vince both recommend getting a guide through Liberation Unleashed. I am looking for help with inquiry, going deeper with a one-on-one guide. I am not sure if you are the same Stacy I saw in one of Vince's video's recently, if you are I would feel honoured to have you as a guide. I loved your directness, no-none sense approach. When I saw you on the video, I prayed quietly to myself that I might be guided by you. If you are not that Stacy, I apologize.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Glenda

[Anastacia42]

Hi Glenda,

Yes, that's me. Good. I'm glad you liked how I guide.

Let's get started. Here is my usual initial post:

My name is Stacy and I can be your guide, if you would like.

One thing I want to make very clear up front is that with me, you must post every day. If you know yourself and your schedule are such that you cannot do this, tell me, "no," and someone else can guide you, please.
Yes, if once in a while you must post later, please post a note telling me when you will return.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, please read it now and just confirm to me that you have read it. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/

Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not …” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link.

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some housekeeping guidelines:

1. Post at least once a day, or every second day. If you need more time, or are unable to post for several days, just write a quick post on your thread to let me know please.

2. There is no one judging answers given, so please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry.

3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress. This is not a self-improvement process. There is no ‘self’ to improve.

4. Put aside all other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading and so on for the remainder of this investigation. Really put all your effort and attention in to seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.

Technology is not perfect and sometimes there is a glitch which can wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Always save a copy of what you have done, it will save time in the long run!

To begin with, so that we both become aware of what your expectations are about this exploration. In your own words (not from actual experience, but just honest answers), could you please answer the 4 following questions:

How will life change?
How will you change?
What will be different?
What is missing?

Throughout this exploration I would like you to answer all questions that I have written in blue text. Please answer all questions even if I miss using the blue text.

Please answer questions individually, remembering to use the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function. Please watch it. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Loving,

[Glenda]

December 25,2024

How will life change?

I don't know. The mind has lots of stories, the truth is I don't know.

How will you change?

Stories instantly arise in the mind for a " better" version of "me". I see the joke, it is all an illusion. Whether it is a better or worse version me it is still an illusion. I am feeling a contraction in the chest, neck, and jaw and a story that I need to hang on tightly to the illusion. This is all mind stuff swirling around. True answer to question...I don't know.

What will be different?

I don't know, anything is speculation.

What is missing?

I felt a big OUCH as I read this question. I do not like the question at all ! I feel activated reading it, the engery in the body is pumping like it just saw a tiger and needs to RUN. . I am aware that this question is the truth of all the other questions, in one simple question. My answers to the other questions "I don't know", at this moment feel like a lie. I feel the body contracting, showing many hidden beliefs and agenda’s, wanting life to change, wanting to be changed, and hopes that something will be different, because SOMETHING IS MISSING. The insight and gift I am receiving at this moment is seeing that the body does not lie, only the mind. Over and over again, I attempt to relax and allow the mind to do its thing, resting in the space where nothing is missing. I will carry the question “what is missing”, and explore it today as I interact with daily activities. For whom is something missing?

What would you like for me to call you? What time zone are you in, please?

Glenda. Time: PST

[Anastacia42]

Good awareness, Glenda.

a contraction in the chest, neck, and jaw and a story that I need to hang on tightly to the illusion

Yes. Contractions are about lies. Expansion is about truth.

So now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? That is all a made up story?

Loving,

[Anastacia42]

Good awareness, Glenda.

a contraction in the chest, neck, and jaw and a story that I need to hang on tightly to the illusion

Yes. Contractions are about lies. Expansion is about truth.

So now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? That is all a made up story?

Loving,

[Glenda]

So now what comes up when reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be? That is all a made up story?

Terror. I want to say hold on now…..let “me” process this a bit more. I don’t really want to let go of my story that “I am not enough, I am bad, I will never get it, etc.”. There is an experience of panic, “who will I be” , “how will I be”….I need more time to come up with a new story of “no self”.

I am actually laughing right now. When I first saw your question, besides terror, it felt like a shock . Like I just got slapped into seeing the game I am playing with believing my thoughts.

At the same time there is desire to shut down now, not to explore the truth of “no self”. There is contraction here, after a brief moment of expansion in seeing the truth. All this is being seen.

I feel a flood of stories come in saying "you are only pretending to know there is no separate self, you have not had a big shift or experience, so whatever you know is fakery".

Yet, there is a simple knowing that everything I say is a story. How do I expand that knowing?

[Anastacia42]

Good morning Glenda,

That question is meant to find out if there's any fear. You've hit the jackpot.

Watch this, please. Several times, if need be.

https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=gGggO_dJiv4Jw50o

Code: Select all

How do I expand that knowing?

Just follow the pointers given here. You might also read Gateless Gatecrashers, which you can download from Resources, Books here.

Also, be aware that for many people the shift is very settled.

Loving,

[Glenda]

Watch this, please. Several times, if need be.
https://youtu.be/jKX1llYtlKE?si=gGggO_dJiv4Jw50o
CODE: SELECT ALL
How do I expand that knowing?
Just follow the pointers given here. You might also read Gateless Gatecrashers, which you can download from Resources, Books here.

Dec. 26th

Good Morning Stacy,

Well, the video on “letting go of fear” was horrible and fabulous. When I started listening, the person’s voice felt like “nails on a blackboard”, I could not stand it. I react to sweet, soft, voices. There is a belief here that soft and sweet people are big fakers, and I am NOT safe if I am soft and sweet. It was very hard to listen to the video, and hear the questions being asked.

I became aware that I was experiencing fear, a deep fear, of not being safe….I cannot let go, I have to hold on, stay contracted. I walk around in fear all the time, sometimes intense, but there is always a subtle fear.

As the video went on it said “ can you see the fear is protecting something?” I went right back into my childhood, where any sense of authenticity in me was literally frightened and beaten out of me, by my father. I was never allowed a voice, opinion, or sense of Being, I lived in fear. My father would never, ever, allow, softness, sweetness. I am still afraid of my father’s wrath…

My father would never approve of the awaking process, he would call it a con job, a bunch of charlatans, fakers, etc. The answer to the question “what is the fear protecting? “Being”. My father is long dead, yet I am still living my fear of him. I am afraid of just “Being”.

I listened to the video four times. The reaction to the gal’s voice disappeared on the third listen. I can see the fear of my father’s wrath or God’s wrath is a story. “Being” is always here, no matter what the sensation.

I will read Gateless Gatecrashers.

[Anastacia42]

Good. Glenda.

Let's get you through the fears, because fear and expectations are the only things that can keep you from seeing that there is no self.

Take your time and watch that video maybe once a day.

"That gal," is Ilona Tsuinite, one of the 2 founders of this forum. She's quite a safe person.

Keep me posted here.

Also, please read this:

This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:

Colored Socks

There is a big difference between knowing that there is nothing to give up and seeing that there is nothing to give up.

Here is an example to illustrate the difference:

If I ask you what color socks you are wearing right now you have two ways to come up with an answer:

• You can think about it, you can think back to this morning and try to remember putting your socks on, and you can probably tell me what color you think they are.

• Alternatively, you can take a quick look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are!

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of seeing this "no self" idea, it is very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that

We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment-to-moment experience. We are only interested in your Direct Experience in the moment..

Direct or Actual Experience is

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.


Loving,

[Glenda]

Dec. 26th

Take your time and watch that video maybe once a day.
"That gal," is Ilona Tsuinite, one of the 2 founders of this forum. She's quite a safe person.
Keep me posted here.

Thank you for your response Stacy, I will watch the “letting go of fear” video at least once a day. I will keep you posted. My reaction to the video has subsided. I watched it again this afternoon, and realized I had not heard a lot of the questions, even though I listened to it 4 times.
This time I noticed that Ilona was saying “ it is safe to feel, it is safe to feel intense sensations”…I had not even heard those words watching the video before. The question “what would make me feel safer?” resonates with me deeply. I stopped the video and sat with it for awhile, no answer arose to satisfy the mind, but the silence and stillness I sat in felt very safe, like home. The body relaxed.

Also, please read this:
This is how to LOOK for no self in the exercises - we call them "pointers' - that we will be doing here:
Colored Socks

I love the pointer exercise. So clear, direct.

I made a copy what a direct experience is : Seeing, hearing, feeling, tasting, smelling, thought arising,...and I am carrying the instructions with me through out the day to remember the pointers. I am noticing more when I am “selfing” and I am attempting to go into the sensation. This is a new experience and will take continued practice.

I am reading gateless gatecrashers, absolutely love it. Makes me feel normal as I read about other's resistance to "seeing through self". I am feeling for the first time that there will be a seeing through of "self", there already is in moments.

Thank You !

[Anastacia42]

You're doing great, Glenda.

Here's your next pointer:



Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply= image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Actual/Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order. EXACTLY.

Refer to the green list of Actual/Direct Experience in the prior post if that helps. Those are the only items any experience can be.

Loving,

[Glenda]

Here's your next pointer:Direct Experience - Labeling Daily Activities
Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

Thank you for the exercise “labeling daily activities Stacy,

It was received with resistance. Even though in the previous post that I sent I mentioned I was carrying around the list of direct experiences and was attempting to practice them, it felt like I was caught in a LIE. I saw the truth, I was carrying around the list thinking I was going to directly experience seeing, hearing , feeling, tasting, smelling, & thoughts, but I wasn’t really doing it.

What surprised me most about attempting the exercise was how much I am NOT HERE, I am THINKING about being here. It required much effort to bring the attention directly here, the mind kept thinking about being here and instantly associating and wandering off. I walked a two mile lap around a park talking with my brother and did not notice a thing, nor feel the body or hear anything but his voice, mine , and all the associations of the mind. It was not until the second lap that I attempted to be present, and even then it was very hard. When I drank my morning smoothie I realized I don’t even taste the awful healthy concoction I make each morning, until I did the exercise. It wasn’t until later in the day well past the smoothie exercise that I remembered I was drinking it with a straw and that was not registered at the time.

I became aware of how limited my direct attention is. I saw how much sensation, seeing, smelling, tasting, hearing is not experienced directly, I am gone in the content and associations of thinking all the time. Wow, this is huge to experience, because how can I just Be when gone in associations all the time. How can I know what is right here NOW, if I am gone? The mind (me) wants to awaken, but to what? This seems very funny right now….I am trying to get some where that is imaginary, instead of Being.

I continue to watch the “letting go of fear” video. Today I found it relaxing and really felt the desire to ask the fear or sensation for a message, for wisdom. At several points through out the day fear arose and I was able to relax more than normal into the engery sensation. I started asking for the message or wisdom of the sensation, but quickly wandered off in imagination and did not stay with it. This is all being seen.

First exercise - reading email received from Stacy:
Seeing email= black and blue print, white background
Smelling = no awareness of smells
Feeling = swirling engery in body, nausea coming up esophagus , tightness in neck, shoulders, jaw
Tasting = bitterness on back of tongue
Hearing = hum of heater and fridge in room
Thought =about not getting the labeling activities right, not wanting to make a real effort it is dangerous.

Second exercise - drinking smoothie:
Seeing = blue jar, purple substance
Smelling= vanilla
Feeling = smooth/hard container, cool, smooth/thick substance in mouth
Tasting = sweet
Hearing = hum in room of heater, clunk on table when jar is placed down
Thought = this is awful, just get it down quick

Third exercise- Reading Gatecrashers:
Seeing = back letters, white background, computer screen
Smelling= no awareness
Feeling = butt touching chair, twitch of right eye, contraction of throat, hand on cool key board, excited engery in body
Tasting = metallic taste in mouth
Hearing = sound of hum or heater, voices in downstairs apartment, low buzz in ears.
Thought about = what am I supposed to get? what is supposed to happen?, I understand the words but is something supposed to happen?

Fourth exercise - Walking in Park with brother
Seeing = people walking, trees, lake, duck, green grass. white clouds, blue sky, wooden bridge, body walking next to me, colored cars in parking lot,
Smelling = no awareness
Feeling = knee pain, feet on ground, wind on face, coolness of air on skin, right eye twitch, clothes against skin, contraction of neck/jaws/shoulders, rain drops on face
Tasting = no awareness
Hearing= voices, cars, birds, dogs, wind,
Thought about = my brother is walking too fast , my knee hurts, what will we do for lunch.

[Anastacia42]

Can you see that you reversed the list?

You are asked to notice things & then classify the Direct Experience on the right.

Can you see how that's different that looking for something you See and then something you Hear. etc? Your labels are correct, but backwards.

I try so hard to make these instructions clear, but this still happens.

Loving