Is there anybody there?

[BraveBear]

LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
That what is happening isn't necessarily what is assumed / believed to be happening.

What are you looking for at LU?
Guidance to look deeply into experience so what is actually going on can be clearly seen, rather than relying on assumptions or beliefs which are ultimately inaccurate. For this deep looking to go beyond the merely intellectual.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Support and guidance from someone who has made their own inquiry and is capable of sharing that with others. Ways of looking into experience to clearly see what is actually going on rather than what is being assumed. Helpful encouragement if things get too complex or unsettling.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Have been involved with Buddhism / Dharma practices for many years so have encountered something of this territory through meditation and investigation.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self? 11

[Harry]

Hello,

My name is Harry and I would be happy to undertake this experiential exploration with you!

A daily correspondence works best for this purpose, so please let me know if this is possible for you. Occasionally missing days if necessary is no problem, but if you could let me know in advance that would be great.

If you haven't already read the disclaimer, have a look and let me know when you’ve read it please.


http://liberationunleashed.com/disclaimer-2/



Also please read “Liberation Unleashed is not ...” in the FAQ’s of LU. Here is the link:

http://liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041


Guidelines:

2. Please be 100% honest in your answers and inquiry, as there is no one here to judge you.
3. This exploration is based on actual experience (AE) - smell, taste, sound, sensation, color and observed thoughts. Long-winded analytical and philosophical answers are best avoided and may even hinder progress.
4. All other teachings, philosophies, rituals, practices, books/reading, etc. should be put aside for the remainder of this investigation. Effort and attention should be directed into seeing this reality, as it is. If you have a daily meditation practice, it is fine to continue that but is not necessary for this exploration.


Unfortunately, technology can occasionally glitch and wipe out your responses. It is advisable that you copy and paste questions asked into Word, answer them there and then copy and paste them to your thread. Saving a copy of what you have done will save time in the long run!


Thank you for what you have already shared about your expectations. To clarify this further for both of us, please answer the 4 following questions in your own words:

1. How will life change?
2. How will you change?
3. What will be different?
4. What is missing?


Throughout this exploration, please answer all the questions written in blue text.

Please answer questions individually, using the quote function to highlight the question being answered.

Below is a link to the video with instructions on using the Quote Function to watch. Use the PREVIEW button to make sure your text looks right before you hit "SUBMIT."

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660



What name would you like for me to call you?

Best wishes,

Harry

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

Thankyou very much for offering to be my guide (if that's the right word?) for this inquiry. I am happy for you to call me BraveBear and I should be fine to post every day, though of course I will let you know if that's not possible for any reason.
I've made an attempt to use the quote function with regard to the questions below - I hope it's worked!

1. How will life change?
2. How will you change?
3. What will be different?
4. What is missing?

With regard to the first 3 questions, the answer to them all is I don't know. I don't know if this inquiry is about changing anything, rather than understanding better. Though this may well have an effect which means change of some sort, but that can't be predicted at this stage. There isn't currently a sense of anything missing.

I look forward to working with you,
Thanks again,
BraveBear

[Harry]

Hi BraveBear,

Thanks for your answers, and for quoting and formatting how I’d asked!

So, in the absence of anything missing (or a sense of insufficiency or unsatisfying), would you say that it is curiosity and interest that has brought you here, or some other motivation?

What arises for you upon reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be?

[BraveBear]

Hi Harry

So, in the absence of anything missing (or a sense of insufficiency or unsatisfying), would you say that it is curiosity and interest that has brought you here, or some other motivation?

There is, at times, an experience of unsatisfactoriness or insufficiency. There isn't an experience of absence or something missing.

What arises for you upon reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be?[/quote

Through my interest in Buddhism / Advaita, this is an idea / concept I've encountered many times. But it's not sufficient for it to just be intellectual, it really needs to be 'known' on all levels. Which is why I want to do this inquiry, to help open out from it just being an idea / concept and experience it directly and fully.

Thankyou,
BB

[BraveBear]

Hi Harry

So, in the absence of anything missing (or a sense of insufficiency or unsatisfying), would you say that it is curiosity and interest that has brought you here, or some other motivation?

There is, at times, an experience of unsatisfactoriness or insufficiency. There isn't an experience of absence or something missing.

What arises for you upon reading that there is no separate self, never has been and never will be?[/quote

Through my interest in Buddhism / Advaita, this is an idea / concept I've encountered many times. But it's not sufficient for it to just be intellectual, it really needs to be 'known' on all levels. Which is why I want to do this inquiry, to help open out from it just being an idea / concept and experience it directly and fully.

Thankyou,
BB

[BraveBear]

Slight quote function mishap there. Is it possible to edit a post once it's been submitted?

[Harry]

Hello BraveBear,

There is, at times, an experience of unsatisfactoriness or insufficiency. There isn't an experience of absence or something missing.

If this comes up, would you be able to describe it in terms of direct experience? Here, we refer to direct experience as:

Thought (but not it’s content / what it refers to)
Colour (sight)
Sound
Sensation (tingling, temperature, headache, etc.)
Taste
Smell

Through my interest in Buddhism / Advaita, this is an idea / concept I've encountered many times. But it's not sufficient for it to just be intellectual, it really needs to be 'known' on all levels. Which is why I want to do this inquiry, to help open out from it just being an idea / concept and experience it directly and fully.

Thanks for sharing this. Let’s start from your experience, however it appears right now.

Do you have any direct experience of being separate, based on present evidence?

Can a separate self be found in your current experience?

Slight quote function mishap there. Is it possible to edit a post once it's been submitted?

No worries. Once it’s sent, it can’t be edited any longer (as far as I understand!).

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry

If this comes up, would you be able to describe it in terms of direct experience? Here, we refer to direct experience as:

Well, in direct experience, there are sensations in the body and some thoughts going on and that's it. There is also some sort of interpretation which then merits the label 'unsatisfactory' or whatever.

Do you have any direct experience of being separate, based on present evidence?

On present evidence, there is no direct experience of being separate, just the experience of the senses and no boundary can be found for them, just the experience of them.

Can a separate self be found in your current experience?

No, just sense experience and knowing of it.....

Thanks Harry,
BB

[Harry]

Hi BB,

Well, in direct experience, there are sensations in the body and some thoughts going on and that's it. There is also some sort of interpretation which then merits the label 'unsatisfactory' or whatever.

Is there interpretation and labels in addition to thoughts, or are interpretations/labels themselves thoughts?

Are the body sensations intrinsically unpleasant/unsatisfactory?

No, just sense experience and knowing of it.....

Yes. How does it feel to see this?

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

Is there interpretation and labels in addition to thoughts, or are interpretations/labels themselves thoughts?

Interpretation and labels can only be found in thoughts.

Are the body sensations intrinsically unpleasant/unsatisfactory?

Well, no, not intrinsically, they are just sensations.

How does it feel to see this?

Sometimes it feels like it's everything and sometimes it doesn't. It's hard to explain.

Thankyou 🙏

[Harry]

You’re very welcome, BraveBear!

Interpretation and labels can only be found in thoughts.

Yes.

Well, no, not intrinsically, they are just sensations.

That’s right.

Sometimes it feels like it's everything and sometimes it doesn't. It's hard to explain.

What about right now? How does it feel in this very moment?

Feel free to share any further thoughts you may have about this.

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

What about right now? How does it feel in this very moment?

'It' being there is just sense experience and the knowing of it, with no separate self to be found is contactable right now, but is only partial. This doesn't mean a separate or fixed self is believed in but that hovering 'above' the direct / actual experience, like mist above the still waters of a lake, is something more. An atmosphere / mood and recognition / acknowledgment of it. It is what's happening too in its own way, it just isn't happening to anyone fixed or separate.

Feel free to share any further thoughts you may have about this

Just that losing / not having a sense of self in this way doesn't mean there aren't still difficult experiences (it hasn't been a particularly easy day for various reasons). But not referring back to a 'somebody' it's all happening to makes it easier to meet what is happening now without even more complexity being added into the mix.

And if there is a sense of a someone it's all happening to (from force of habit), just checking in with what can actually be found in current experience helps to 'break the spell' as it were and then it's all still happening but just not to 'me'......which feels impactful in a good way.

These are some thoughts from today.

Thankyou 🙏

[Harry]

Hi BraveBear!

'It' being there is just sense experience and the knowing of it, with no separate self to be found is contactable right now, but is only partial. This doesn't mean a separate or fixed self is believed in but that hovering 'above' the direct / actual experience, like mist above the still waters of a lake, is something more. An atmosphere / mood and recognition / acknowledgment of it. It is what's happening too in its own way, it just isn't happening to anyone fixed or separate.

What could this ‘something more’ be if not an experience? See if you can find what it is… how is it appearing?
In what form does it present itself?

Just that losing / not having a sense of self in this way doesn't mean there aren't still difficult experiences (it hasn't been a particularly easy day for various reasons). But not referring back to a 'somebody' it's all happening to makes it easier to meet what is happening now without even more complexity being added into the mix.

And if there is a sense of a someone it's all happening to (from force of habit), just checking in with what can actually be found in current experience helps to 'break the spell' as it were and then it's all still happening but just not to 'me'......which feels impactful in a good way.

Thanks for sharing this. I’m glad you’re feeling a positive impact.

One distinction I like to make is between psychological and practical difficulty. Of course, life has ups and downs which can’t be avoided on a practical level (sickness, injury, etc.).

But psychological difficulty (the sense that things are boring, upsetting, etc.) is another matter entirely…

Which sense of the word ‘difficulty’ did you mean?

[BraveBear]

Hello Harry,

What could this ‘something more’ be if not an experience? See if you can find what it is… how is it appearing?
In what form does it present itself?

Yes - the something more is an experience that seems to arise from the combination of sensations and thoughts at the time. There is the bare or primary form of thoughts and sensations in the body and then a secondary form (which isn't separate) which has a more, or appears as a more emotional tone.

Which sense of the word ‘difficulty’ did you mean?

I don't feel I can make the distinction between practical and psychological somehow......It's all just what is happening, whether things 'feel', due to emotional tone, difficult or otherwise......

Thankyou,
BB