LU is focused guiding for seeing there is no real, inherent 'self' - what do you understand by this?
I understand that the guidance will help the student realize that the collections of memories, thoughts, beliefs that was gathered throughout the life don't equat to the self being a real thing.
What are you looking for at LU?
Looking on guidance to see past the first 3 fetters initially. While I logged hours of meditations, after some i did feel quite pleasant, not much insight into the illusion of the self was reached. I'm maybe more able to detach from thoughts sometimes or just pause the inner critic for a while.
What do you expect from a guided conversation?
To be able to relay the moment to moment experience and be pointed at the flaws and illusions that I'm basing what I think reality and "myself' is, ultimately seeing that it's no more real than a whirlpool in a river.
What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
In the past couple of years, I logged 200h or so of meditation across multiple forms e.g. mindfulness, some jhana, TM. Some altered states of consciousness were reached, not much insight. Owed to being unsure of being on the right track, often the practice gets dropped.
3 experiences stand out from them: on 2 occasions there were little to no inner conversations/significant inner monologues for 1 day and 3 days respectively, felt very at peace.
3rd experience happened after 3 weeks of trying to 'relax to sleep' each night, although i don't remember reading about it anywehere.. As a consequence, I woke up not feeling the 'usual' stress/anxiety/fear, thoughts seemed to not trigger the usual heightened emotions. Last for about 3 days after 'forcing' more 'reaction'. Unsure what this exactly was.
On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
11
Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hi Michael,
So much joy being with you at yesterday's meeting!
Thank yo for joining, for sharing your experience and for being so open.
As we spoke I'm writing to ask - are you ready to send you the so called final questions?
Are there any doubts that the illusion of a separate self is seen trough?
Sending much love,
Luchana
So much joy being with you at yesterday's meeting!
Thank yo for joining, for sharing your experience and for being so open.
As we spoke I'm writing to ask - are you ready to send you the so called final questions?
Are there any doubts that the illusion of a separate self is seen trough?
Sending much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hi Luchana,
It was an amazing conversation on this side as well, thank you for being so kind and helpful!
There don't seem to be any doubts per se, though sometimes the deepness/spaciousness on the inside seems to ebb and flow.
There's no rush either to confirm/infirm what is here or thinking that there's something else to be seeking.
That said, with your accord, maybe giving it another week just being with the process and the presence and asking them next Friday?
Thank you and sending much love to you and Lubo as well!
M
It was an amazing conversation on this side as well, thank you for being so kind and helpful!
There don't seem to be any doubts per se, though sometimes the deepness/spaciousness on the inside seems to ebb and flow.
There's no rush either to confirm/infirm what is here or thinking that there's something else to be seeking.
That said, with your accord, maybe giving it another week just being with the process and the presence and asking them next Friday?
Thank you and sending much love to you and Lubo as well!
M
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hi Michael,
Thank you for your kind words.
Sure, take your time.
Let's chat again in Friday.
Sending love,
Luchana
Thank you for your kind words.
Sure, take your time.
Let's chat again in Friday.
Sending love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hi Luchana,
It appears things might be ready for the final questions.
Thank you so much and have a pleasant Friday!
Michael
It appears things might be ready for the final questions.
Thank you so much and have a pleasant Friday!
Michael
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hey Michail,
great!
Here are the questions. Do not rush, take time with each one of them and reply from experience of how you see things now. Fresh, fresh :-)
Reply each question individually.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Sending love,
Luchana
great!
Here are the questions. Do not rush, take time with each one of them and reply from experience of how you see things now. Fresh, fresh :-)
Reply each question individually.
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
6) Anything to add?
Sending love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hey Luchana,
Let me dive into them:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
- There never was and never will be a separate entity inside such as a self, me or I.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
- The illusion of a separate self is the seemingly real impression that there is a sort of a homunculi, often behind the eyes or inside the skull that acts as a controller of what is e.g. controls the body, dictates actions etc. It seems like it starts pretty early in life when the child starts differentiating between themselves and actual experience and tries to make sense of how things happen and adds a label on top that "I must be doing all these". There's also a mixing of the experience and awareness with some controller and a denial of the fact that things can just happen, without anyone needing to make it happen.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
- Liberating in so many ways that words can't do it justice. The experience of incessant thoughts about me, mine, I simply stopped, no more going into multi-hour rabbit holes of trying to protect some imaginary I with carefully crafted arguments. Meditation happens, there is no more trying to meditate and struggling to "keep thoughts away". It's been seen that thinking indeed is of experience, but the content of it is unreal and not connected to actual reality. Nature and pretty much everything seems much more beautiful. Less resistance to activities that previously seemed tedious. It's easily visible when some random past pattern happens and it's just amusing how previously it would have caused so much distress.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
- In a way, it seems like the biggest hurdle was Seeing, physically. Previously, when things were seen, there was some automatic process of just adding labels to what was seen which made it seem like there was a 'Labeler' which meant that there was something palpable. Once that experience was deconstructed and things were actually perceived, that last part of the illusion started to seem unnecessary.
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
- Decisions are not made. It came to the point of seeing that either all was happening or all was controlled and so much was outside of "I" powers, such as breathing or like 99% of body's function. So when faced with the "selective deciding", it became obvious that it was just after-the-fact identification. Currently, seeing the screen happens and all other sense experiences do as well. Whatever identification happened was in the content of the thoughts and as previously mentioned, the content isn't true, only the experience of thinking. Currently, there is no one deciding to type or to have the experience of seeing the screen.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
- Intention seemed to previously be a real thing. But once the process of thinking is stopped and so it the identification in the content, things are still going along. Intention is added on top of experience and yet, without this concept, breathing still happening, smelling still happens and all things go along just fine.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
- Free will is just a concept of the mind. It was a way of claiming control, of the decisions, of the experiences, of the acts. But it also was just an illusion, since it's part of thought content. The nails and hair still grow without it, processes happen. If free will was ever a real thing, why didn't people just free-willed to only hear certain sounds and not others? Simply because there wasn't such thing in reality.
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
- Choice in the past seemed to be a way of claiming control over experience, maybe through a way of fear of not having control. For example, it seemed for example that a certain type of cookies were chosen. But why those precisely? The act of choice was post-factual identification and it didn't take into account the experiences that happened beforehand that made it arrive to the moment of choice. Either all was chosen or everything happened, otherwise it's obviously cherry-picking after the fact.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
- Control was part of the illusion of the I as a way of feeling more powerful. Otherwise it seemed so scary that things are just experienced, with different degrees of how pleasant they are, and there is no one to control that. Control only happened in the content of the thoughts because it was oh just so scary to admit that everything just is and everything just goes. Without control, who's going to hold together all these cells of the body from becoming a puddle on the floor?? And yet, now in experience, without an I to control, it seems to hold together pretty good.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
- To be fair, it all seems like magic. There is a mystery where things are coming from and that's pretty alright. Without the previous after-the-fact identification, it's all just processes and patterning. Eyes see, ears hear, heart beats. Like one grand design, an orchestra without a conductor or musicians, instruments playing.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
- There is no I to be responsible for something. There is just direct experience, processes going on such as seeing, tasting and even thinking (not it's contents). The light is on but there's Nobody home.
6) Anything to add?
That this is marvelous and the fact that the old "I" stumbled upon LU is quite the testament that it all just happens automatically :D.
Oh and, in case it's all good, how could I support/guide others' processes?
Thank you for the support!!
M
Let me dive into them:
1) Is there a separate entity 'self', 'me' 'I', at all, anywhere, in any way, shape or form? Was there ever?
- There never was and never will be a separate entity inside such as a self, me or I.
2) Explain in detail what the illusion of separate self is, when it starts and how it works from your own experience. Describe it fully as you see it now.
- The illusion of a separate self is the seemingly real impression that there is a sort of a homunculi, often behind the eyes or inside the skull that acts as a controller of what is e.g. controls the body, dictates actions etc. It seems like it starts pretty early in life when the child starts differentiating between themselves and actual experience and tries to make sense of how things happen and adds a label on top that "I must be doing all these". There's also a mixing of the experience and awareness with some controller and a denial of the fact that things can just happen, without anyone needing to make it happen.
3) How does it feel to see this? What is the difference from before you started this dialogue? Please report from the past few days.
- Liberating in so many ways that words can't do it justice. The experience of incessant thoughts about me, mine, I simply stopped, no more going into multi-hour rabbit holes of trying to protect some imaginary I with carefully crafted arguments. Meditation happens, there is no more trying to meditate and struggling to "keep thoughts away". It's been seen that thinking indeed is of experience, but the content of it is unreal and not connected to actual reality. Nature and pretty much everything seems much more beautiful. Less resistance to activities that previously seemed tedious. It's easily visible when some random past pattern happens and it's just amusing how previously it would have caused so much distress.
4) What was the last bit that pushed you over, made you look?
- In a way, it seems like the biggest hurdle was Seeing, physically. Previously, when things were seen, there was some automatic process of just adding labels to what was seen which made it seem like there was a 'Labeler' which meant that there was something palpable. Once that experience was deconstructed and things were actually perceived, that last part of the illusion started to seem unnecessary.
5) Describe decision & give examples from experience.
- Decisions are not made. It came to the point of seeing that either all was happening or all was controlled and so much was outside of "I" powers, such as breathing or like 99% of body's function. So when faced with the "selective deciding", it became obvious that it was just after-the-fact identification. Currently, seeing the screen happens and all other sense experiences do as well. Whatever identification happened was in the content of the thoughts and as previously mentioned, the content isn't true, only the experience of thinking. Currently, there is no one deciding to type or to have the experience of seeing the screen.
Describe intention & give examples from experience.
- Intention seemed to previously be a real thing. But once the process of thinking is stopped and so it the identification in the content, things are still going along. Intention is added on top of experience and yet, without this concept, breathing still happening, smelling still happens and all things go along just fine.
Describe free will & give examples from experience.
- Free will is just a concept of the mind. It was a way of claiming control, of the decisions, of the experiences, of the acts. But it also was just an illusion, since it's part of thought content. The nails and hair still grow without it, processes happen. If free will was ever a real thing, why didn't people just free-willed to only hear certain sounds and not others? Simply because there wasn't such thing in reality.
Describe choice & give examples from experience.
- Choice in the past seemed to be a way of claiming control over experience, maybe through a way of fear of not having control. For example, it seemed for example that a certain type of cookies were chosen. But why those precisely? The act of choice was post-factual identification and it didn't take into account the experiences that happened beforehand that made it arrive to the moment of choice. Either all was chosen or everything happened, otherwise it's obviously cherry-picking after the fact.
Describe control & give examples from experience.
- Control was part of the illusion of the I as a way of feeling more powerful. Otherwise it seemed so scary that things are just experienced, with different degrees of how pleasant they are, and there is no one to control that. Control only happened in the content of the thoughts because it was oh just so scary to admit that everything just is and everything just goes. Without control, who's going to hold together all these cells of the body from becoming a puddle on the floor?? And yet, now in experience, without an I to control, it seems to hold together pretty good.
What makes things happen? How does it work?
- To be fair, it all seems like magic. There is a mystery where things are coming from and that's pretty alright. Without the previous after-the-fact identification, it's all just processes and patterning. Eyes see, ears hear, heart beats. Like one grand design, an orchestra without a conductor or musicians, instruments playing.
What are you responsible for? Give examples from experience.
- There is no I to be responsible for something. There is just direct experience, processes going on such as seeing, tasting and even thinking (not it's contents). The light is on but there's Nobody home.
6) Anything to add?
That this is marvelous and the fact that the old "I" stumbled upon LU is quite the testament that it all just happens automatically :D.
Oh and, in case it's all good, how could I support/guide others' processes?
Thank you for the support!!
M
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hi again Michael,
and sorry for delay.
the other guides have no other questions for you which means that you crash the Gateless gate so speak..but as you already know there is no gate and no one can crash it :-)
Maybe you recieved a message from the admin already? If not probably soon and the admin will contact you also in FB.
I will be waiting for you there in the Unleashed FB group.
Thank you for your trust.
It is really a joy to connect. You are most welcome to the Thursday's meetings.
Keep in touch.
Sending much love,
Luchana
and sorry for delay.
the other guides have no other questions for you which means that you crash the Gateless gate so speak..but as you already know there is no gate and no one can crash it :-)
Maybe you recieved a message from the admin already? If not probably soon and the admin will contact you also in FB.
I will be waiting for you there in the Unleashed FB group.
Thank you for your trust.
It is really a joy to connect. You are most welcome to the Thursday's meetings.
Keep in touch.
Sending much love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hi Luchana,
Thank you for your support and feels great to see past this illusion!
An admin already reached out, will be on the group soon. Will also likely move onto seeing past the next illusions.
If the link for the Thursday meetings is the same, stopping by for the next one!
Sending love and gratitude,
M
Thank you for your support and feels great to see past this illusion!
An admin already reached out, will be on the group soon. Will also likely move onto seeing past the next illusions.
If the link for the Thursday meetings is the same, stopping by for the next one!
Sending love and gratitude,
M
Re: Looking for guidance on the path (First 3 fetters)
Hi Michael,
YES, the link is the same.
.
Topic: Living in Non Duality w Luchana&Lubo
Time: This is a recurring meeting Meet anytime
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88905540192?p ... FUT29EZz09
Meeting ID: 889 0554 0192
Passcode: 170743
---
Sending love,
Luchana
YES, the link is the same.
.
Topic: Living in Non Duality w Luchana&Lubo
Time: This is a recurring meeting Meet anytime
Join Zoom Meeting
https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88905540192?p ... FUT29EZz09
Meeting ID: 889 0554 0192
Passcode: 170743
---
Sending love,
Luchana
If you wonder what it’s like living nonduality in everyday life?
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
https://awakeningawakened.com/2022/10/2 ... onduality/
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