There is no one in control.

[so40]

What are you looking for at LU?
To see there is no separation. I feel lost and do not know what to do. The seeking seems to be pointless, and just going around in circles. I am looking for guidance and may be a different perspective from LU.

What do you expect from a guided conversation?
Open to suggestions and direct pointing. I do not have any set expectations on how the conversion is going to evolve, just go with the flow. Anything that will question my believes, thoughts and fears is welcome.

What is your experience in terms of spiritual practices, seeking and inquiry?
Some meditation, self-inquiry and a glimpse. non-duality readings. two years of searching.

On a scale from 1 to 10, how willing are you to question any currently held beliefs about 'self?
10

[Bluejay]

Hi,

I'm Henri.

Welcome to the forum. I'd be happy to be your guide if you'd like?

If yes, then we can start...

If you haven't already, please read the disclaimer here: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/reg ... isclaimer/

And then have a look at what Liberation Unleashed is not in the FAQ: https://www.liberationunleashed.com/about/faq/#faq-1041

Some guidelines (you may already be familiar with most of this, but just in case):

1. Post at least once every 24 to 48 hours. I'm not strict about this, but I would prefer it if you posted regularly. If you can't, please let me know.

2. Pause any other teachings, rituals, books, and practices you are currently involved in. It is best to put all your effort into this inquiry for as long as it lasts. A meditation practice is fine, but anything else can be a distraction.

3. Technology can be problematic. I recommend you type your answers in a text editor like MS Word or Google Docs, and then copy and paste them into this thread. This way you avoid losing your answer if there's a technical glitch.

4. When replying to a question, please use the quote function to answer each question individually. Here are instructions on how to use the quote function if it is not already clear: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=660

And to start, I'd like to know your expectations. You don't have to use direct experience for this. Just share what comes to mind:

1. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?
2. How will you change?
3. What will be different?
4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

Enjoy! :)

[Zigzag]

1. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?

Daily life should remain the same. There may be a change in the way things are perceived. If not, why all this search.

2. How will you change?

I do not know

3. What will be different?

I do not know

4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

There is nothing missing. The suffering, the psychological pain, which is so real, is what lead to this seeking. All the reading says the shift will end or reduce the suffering.

[so40]

. How will life change when you realize there is no "I"?

Daily life should remain the same. There may be a change in the way things are perceived. If not, why all this search.

2. How will you change?

I do not know

3. What will be different?

I do not know

4. What is missing right now that you will have when there is a shift?

There is nothing missing. The suffering, the psychological pain, which is so real, is what lead to this seeking. All the reading says the shift will end or reduce the suffering.

[Bluejay]

There is nothing missing. The suffering, the psychological pain, which is so real, is what lead to this seeking. All the reading says the shift will end or reduce the suffering.

So could you say that what is missing is peace or something else that will reduce the suffering or make it less of a sticking point?

[so40]

So could you say that what is missing is peace or something else that will reduce the suffering or make it less of a sticking point?

Peace is desired. I cannot say it is missing. The suffering masks the peace? There is peace felt during the day. Then certain types of thoughts will just appear, and the body gets tense, and discomfort happens. There is this ownership of the thoughts.

[Bluejay]

Peace is desired. I cannot say it is missing. The suffering masks the peace? There is peace felt during the day. Then certain types of thoughts will just appear, and the body gets tense, and discomfort happens. There is this ownership of the thoughts.

Understood.

Thank you for using quotes, by the way. Could you put my questions in the quotes and your answers below them like I'm using here? That would make it easier for me to read.

Now, are you familiar with direct experience?

For example: If I ask you what color your socks are, you can answer in two ways:

1. You can think of the answer and try to remember

2. You can take a look at your socks and tell me what color they actually are

Hopefully you would agree that you can only be 100% certain by looking.

For the purpose of our dialogue together, it is going to be very important that you are clear about this difference.

Knowing is about knowledge which is all in the mind and we are not interested in that. We are only interested in looking at and seeing what is actually going on in your present moment to moment experience. We are only interested in your direct experience in this very moment.

Direct Experience is:

Seeing
Hearing
Feeling (Sensation, not emotion. Emotion is Sensation plus made-up thoughts & labels)
Tasting
Smelling
Thoughts Arising (but not their content)

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

[so40]

Please let me know if you are clear about this or if you would like any further clarification.

I do not have any questions. I understand.

[Bluejay]

It has come to my attention that you may have or had more than one account here at LU. This is against the rules.

Please resolve this with the admins and let me know so we can continue.

[so40]

Please resolve this with the admins and let me know so we can continue.

Bluejay, Talked to admins and they asked me to continue. Thank you for guidance.

[Bluejay]

Glad to hear it!

Continuing on...

Here's an exercise that I would like you to try as many times throughout the day as you can. Label daily activities simply color/image, sound, smell, taste, sensation, thought.

So for example, when having breakfast, become aware of:

Seeing a cup, simply = image/color
Smelling coffee, simply = smell
Feeling the warmth of the coffee cup, simply = sensation
Tasting the coffee, simply = taste
Hearing the spoon stirring the coffee, simply = sound
Thought about drinking the coffee, simply = thought

Just break down daily activities into these categories (which are all Direct Experience) and report back with lists exactly like the one above.

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order on each line.

Also pay attention to how the mind wants to label, judge, interpret, and make sense of everything.

[so40]

Post several of your own observations in a list *exactly* like the one above, please. Same word forms. Same order on each line.

Sitting on the chair, simply = sensation
Thought about travel, simply = thought
Typing on keyboard, simply = sensation
Hearing the typing, simply = sound

Looking at the keyboard, simply = image/color
Thought about getting up, simply = thought
Thought about heart beating, simply = thought
Thought about looking at Lego truck, simply = thought
Seeing lego truck, simply = color/image

Sound of sighing, simply = sound
thought abuot restlessness, simply = thought
Thought about looking at ear plug, simply = thought
seeing the ear plug, simply = image/color

Hearing the tv, simply = sound
Thought about why this exercise, simply = thought

seeing the document, simply = image/color

[Bluejay]

Nicely done! Hope you didn't step on the lego truck :)

Here's the next pointer on how the mind labels experience:

This takes about 20 minutes and you will need pen a paper.

This exercise is broken into 2 x 10 minute parts. For each 10 minute part pay attention to any bodily sensation (is there any tightening, or any relaxing?)

For the first ten minutes write down what you are experiencing right now using the word “I”.

For example:

- I am sitting on a chair
- I am hearing a clock ticking
- I am looking at a computer screen
- I am feeling hungry

Get right to the point, no past or future fantasy, just a plain description of your experience right here and now.

Then for the second ten minutes continue writing down what you are experiencing but this time without using the word “I”.

Describe the experience as it is happening using verbs.

For example:

- Sitting on a chair
- Typing
- Breathing
- Blinking
- Hearing the clock
- Hunger

(Watch what is happening in the body.)

At the end of the twenty minutes compare the two ways in which the experience was labeled and answer the following four questions:

1. Is one truer than the other, and If so, which one?
2. What is here without labels?
3. Do labels affect the experience or just describe it?
4. Did you notice any differences in the body?

Enjoy! :)

[so40]

Sitting at the bench, simply = sensation
Hearing friend talk, simply = sound
Hearing the fountain,simply =sound
Seeing the fountain, simply =image/color
Seeing the tree, simply = image/color
Hearing the cicadas, simply = sound
Seeing the park, simply = image/ color
Feeling the heart beating fast simply = sensation
Thought about why the heart is beating fast,simply =thought
Hearing the birds, simply = sound

Closing the eyes, simply =sensation
Hearing the sounds, simply = sound
Thoughts about opening the eyes simply = thought
Seeing the park simply = image/color
Thoughts about "thoughts has slowed down", simply = thought
Thoughts about getting up, simply = thought

Seeing a bird, simply = image/ color
Thought story about the bird, simply = thought
Thought about frustration, simply = thought
Thought about anger, simply = thought
Feeling of sadness simply = thought
Feeling tears, simply = sensation
Feeling tightness in the. heart, simply = sensation
Thoughts about a person, simply = thought
Hearing children play, simply = sound

Thoughts about I don’t want these thoughts, simply = thought
Thoughts about I am never going get this, simply = thought
Walking on the footpath, simply = sensation
Feeling the breeze, simply = sensation

[Bluejay]

This is excellent. Thank you!

See my previous post for the next pointer.